Was the Great Pyramid Built Before Noah's Flood?

[d taylor]

All you need is faith in Jesus. The Bible can't save anyone.

So where do you learn about Jesus, and how to receive Eternal Life.

 

[klutedavid]

So where do you learn about Jesus, and how to receive Eternal Life.

It was word of mouth before people began writing letters. Then some other people began compiling the New Testament.

You can be told the gospel without the New Testament and you can be saved without the New Testament.

The Old Testament is more of a history of the nation of Israel.

 

[coffee4u]

I've never heard a figure of 15,000 years. As far as 6,000 being "slung around," maybe you could explain that to the people at www.biblehistory.com, which I quoted in the OP. The same goes for numerous other sources and sites which I keep running into.

As far as not believing "scripture as written," what do creationists believe? I go to church with people in their eighties and nineties. They have been creationists all their lives and they still don't know who the sons of Adam and Eve married. I don't have to bring that up, they volunteer it.

Easy, they married their siblings. We need to get over our own modern sensibilities. Different time, different culture. Even Abraham was married to his half-sister. It was not considered to be incest until God deemed it to be so when he introduced the law. People hate this fact.

 

[coffee4u]

Out of curiosity, what is YEC justification for 15,000 years? Most I've heard, such as Ken Ham, are usually pretty straight forward in stating 6,000 years old.

I went looking for the article yesterday with no luck. 15 thousand is considered to be the greatest date possible. If I find it I will be sure to post it.

I agree with a lot of what Ken says, but not all.

 

[coffee4u]

I do not need, to go any where, the Bible is all i need.

I came to faith through reading the Bible.

I then found Ken Ham and changed from being an evolutionist to a creationist some 30 years ago. We aren't all 'grown-up brainwashed into creationism' lol. Nope, I use to be an evolutionist and a non-Christian. Probably what makes me more unbending lol, although I came to the 10-15 thousand years only a few years ago.

 

[coffee4u]

So where do you learn about Jesus, and how to receive Eternal Life.

Read the Gospels.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

It is generally agreed that Abraham lived around 2,000 BC (or about 4,000 years ago). Archaeologists and historians tell us that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was built around 2,500 BC (or 4,500 years ago). So the Great Pyramid was about five hundred years old when Abraham came out of the city of Ur.

Creationists, or at least those who claim that the world is only six thousand years old, say that there are only 400 years between Noah's Flood and Abraham -- or even less, as we shall see. This is unworkable.

For instance, one website gives the following dates.*

Creation 4004 BC

Flood 2348 BC

Tower of Babel 2234 BC Only 114 years after the Flood????

Abraham 1996 BC Only 352 years after the Flood????



As you can see, this creationist date of 1996 BC for Abraham is very close to the generally accepted figure of around 2000 BC. Yet they claim that the Tower of Babel, an immense project requiring tens of thousands of workers, happened only a trifle over a hundred years after the Flood. These workers would have to be supported by millions of farmers or herders. Keep in mind that after the Flood, Genesis says there were only eight people in the world.

There is solid evidence that the Great Pyramid and others nearby were built around 2500 BC, about 500 years before Abraham. Creationist reckoning seems to put the Great Pyramid before the Flood.



*www.biblehistory.com/timeline

I think so because you can clearly see where water may have eroded it towards the top :

They were so massive that they remained even after the flood.

.

 

[coffee4u]

That's interesting, do they all have that?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

That's interesting, do they all have that?

The biggest one does.

.

 

[HARK!]

I think so because you can clearly see where water may have eroded it towards the top :

They were so massive that they remained even after the flood.

.

:: SIGH ::

So where did these massive stones erode off to, without a trace?

It's more likely that the limestone was carried off for other building projects over the course of thousands of years.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

:: SIGH ::

So where did these massive stones erode off to, without a trace?

It's more likely that the limestone was carried off for other building projects over the course of thousands of years.

*Sigh*



.

 

[HARK!]

For instance, one website gives the following dates.*

Creation 4004 BC

I would like to understand how anyone with reason, knowledge of the Bible, and credibility, can put a number on this.

If we believe the Bible, Adam was created, lived in the Garden, and was endowed with eternal life; so long as he was obedient to YHWH. I have found absolutely no Biblical reference for how much time elapsed, from the time that YHWH created Adam, until Adam disobeyed YHWH.

Until I see a number in scripture, any number greater than zero, up to infinity, is a possibility.

 

[jacks]

Also we vary between 6 to 15 thousand years, I am so very tired of 6 thousand being slung around by people who don't believe scripture as written.

This is actually a good point. Early genealogies weren't designed to show time, they were meant to establish relationships. HERE is a good article on it, if anyone is interested. From the article:

The genealogies of Genesis 5 and 11 are not at all unique in the ancient times. The Egyptians had king lists and so did the Sumerians. The Hittites had royal offering lists, the historical and chronological value of which is beyond doubt. These ancient Near Eastern genealogies are very instructive in determining the correct interpretation of the biblical records.

For one thing, we learn that genealogies were not intended to be used as a chronology. At first glance, the one who reads Genesis chapter 5 would think that one only need add up the numbers contained here in order to establish the age of civilization upon the earth. Ussher, for example, arrived at the date of 4004 B.C. for the events of Genesis chapter 1.

The naming of individuals did not necessarily imply that a continuous sequence was to be assumed. Often names were omitted and genealogical lists were selective.

 

[coffee4u]

This is actually a good point. Early genealogies weren't designed to show time, they were meant to establish relationships. HERE is a good article on it, if anyone is interested. From the article:

The genealogies of Genesis 5 and 11 are not at all unique in the ancient times. The Egyptians had king lists and so did the Sumerians. The Hittites had royal offering lists, the historical and chronological value of which is beyond doubt. These ancient Near Eastern genealogies are very instructive in determining the correct interpretation of the biblical records.

For one thing, we learn that genealogies were not intended to be used as a chronology. At first glance, the one who reads Genesis chapter 5 would think that one only need add up the numbers contained here in order to establish the age of civilization upon the earth. Ussher, for example, arrived at the date of 4004 B.C. for the events of Genesis chapter 1.

The naming of individuals did not necessarily imply that a continuous sequence was to be assumed. Often names were omitted and genealogical lists were selective.

Yes I know they often were not a continues sequence.
Ussher simply caused issues with his dating. While I believe in some thousands of years I don't believe the Bible was meant to be used like a calculator. From what I have read his doctrine was probably suspect too.

 

[Tolworth John]

Creationist reckoning seems to put the Great Pyramid before the Flood.

Basic problem.
The pyramid is built from sedimentary rock and upon sedimentary rock that was laid down by the global flood.
So unless you believe the eruptions had a time machine they built the pyramid after the flood.

Meaning there is a problem with secular dating and of biblical understanding.

 

[timewerx]

It is generally agreed that Abraham lived around 2,000 BC (or about 4,000 years ago). Archaeologists and historians tell us that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was built around 2,500 BC (or 4,500 years ago).

There's a passage in the Bible directly referring to the pyramids (I just happen to forgot the verse, sorry).

In that passage describes the three Great Pyramids being built by God to withstand the passage of time for all generations to see (as a sign concerning God).

There's an emerging purely secular archeological find that the Great Pyramids is much much older than popular theories suggest and that the Ancient Egyptians simply didn't have the means to build it (we don't either). Therefore, it was built by someone else than the Egyptians. We go to the Bible and we find it was God who built it.

 

[klutedavid]

Basic problem.
The pyramid is built from sedimentary rock and upon sedimentary rock that was laid down by the global flood.
So unless you believe the eruptions had a time machine they built the pyramid after the flood.

Meaning there is a problem with secular dating and of biblical understanding.

Here is another dating method.

Current estimates for the construction of the pyramids, based on surviving lists of the pharaohs, are believed to be accurate to within about 100 years.

But Cambridge University Egyptologist Kate Spence says that by analyzing the relative position of Earth and two stars, she has dated the construction of the Great Pyramid at Giza — one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World — to within five years of 2478 B.C.

That means the Great Pyramid is 4,478 years old — or 75 years older than one commonly accepted estimate.

Arranged by the Stars

Her estimate comes from her proposed solution to another mystery: How did the ancient Egyptians align their pyramids so that two sides ran so precisely north-south?

She suggests that they used a pair of stars found in the Little and Big Dippers.

But because Earth wobbles on its axis, those two stars would have given different indications for “north” over the centuries. So by calculating when that pair of stars would have been in a northern alignment, Spence says she can figure out when the pyramids were built.

In Thursday’s issue of the journal Nature, Spence says the two-star method could explain the various degrees of inaccuracy in the orientation of pyramids built at different times.

Today’s north star, Polaris, was in the wrong position in those days to help the pyramid builders. Spence instead employs the stars Mizar, found in the Big Dipper’s handle, and Kochab, in the bowl of the Little Dipper.

When the pyramids were built, these stars circled nightly around a point over the North Pole. So, when one star appeared directly over the other, the Egyptians could have used a plumb line to find north, Spence says.

Pointing North

It’s not clear whether the Egyptians really did that, but “the technique she argues for seems very reasonable” and deserves further study, says Edwin Krupp, director of the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. The paper could provide “several pieces of a very intriguing puzzle.”

The ancient Egyptians aligned their pyramids and temples to the north because they believed their pharaohs became stars in the northern sky after they died. Aligning the pyramids, in which the pharaohs were buried, was believed to give the deceased direct access to the northern sky.

Betsy Bryan, a professor of Egyptology and the chairwoman of the department of Near Eastern studies at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, says Spence’s method seems reasonable, and if it proves to be correct, will further refine the timetable of ancient Egypt.

“That’s important because there have been arguments made that the pyramids and the Sphinx were built thousands and thousands of years earlier than that,” Bryan says. “This is yet another piece of evidence that our view that these are monuments that belong to the middle of the third millennium is right.”

 

[Strong in Him]

It was word of mouth before people began writing letters. Then some other people began compiling the New Testament.

You can be told the gospel without the New Testament and you can be saved without the New Testament.

The Old Testament is more of a history of the nation of Israel.

And contains the prophecies about Jesus' birth, ministry etc.

 

[klutedavid]

And contains the prophecies about Jesus' birth, ministry etc.

Yes it does, but salvation is fully attainable without the scripture.

 

[section9+1]

As a Christian I do not believe the old earth narrative. As to its age I don't really know. I'm not stuck on 6000 years or 15,000 or whatever. I just try my best to believe what he said. I know not everything has to be literal all the time. I am still not interested in undermining whatever he has made the effort to tell us. The day I stand before him I will gladly say that I made every effort to honestly believe his message to us and if it conflicted with the earth's evidence, I still choose to believe what he said. I will trust him first and foremost and wherever I went wrong, that's alright. I am not in the business of questioning God. Atheists are doing an enthusiastic job already discrediting what God has said. I have no wish to assist them.