Was the Great Pyramid Built Before Noah's Flood?

[Dale]

It is generally agreed that Abraham lived around 2,000 BC (or about 4,000 years ago). Archaeologists and historians tell us that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was built around 2,500 BC (or 4,500 years ago). So the Great Pyramid was about five hundred years old when Abraham came out of the city of Ur.

Creationists, or at least those who claim that the world is only six thousand years old, say that there are only 400 years between Noah's Flood and Abraham -- or even less, as we shall see. This is unworkable.

For instance, one website gives the following dates.*

Creation 4004 BC

Flood 2348 BC

Tower of Babel 2234 BC Only 114 years after the Flood????

Abraham 1996 BC Only 352 years after the Flood????



As you can see, this creationist date of 1996 BC for Abraham is very close to the generally accepted figure of around 2000 BC. Yet they claim that the Tower of Babel, an immense project requiring tens of thousands of workers, happened only a trifle over a hundred years after the Flood. These workers would have to be supported by millions of farmers or herders. Keep in mind that after the Flood, Genesis says there were only eight people in the world.

There is solid evidence that the Great Pyramid and others nearby were built around 2500 BC, about 500 years before Abraham. Creationist reckoning seems to put the Great Pyramid before the Flood.



*www.biblehistory.com/timeline

 

[Dale]

How do we know that the Great Pyramid was built around 2500 BC? That figure is backed by a great deal of history. Egypt went through 28 dynasties of pharaohs before it became a Roman province. We have writing and inscriptions from ancient Egypt.

One method of dating uses the stars, which were used to align the pyramids to true north. Dr. Kate Spence, University of Cambridge, says that they used the stars Mizar and Kochab. To align a structure, hang a string with a substantial weight.

"You'd then wait until these two stars were vertically aligned exactly with your hanging string. Then a line from you, to the hanging string, would point due north to the horizon."

"If you use that method before 2467 BC, you'd be slightly to the west of True North and after that date you'd be to the east of True North. And when Dr. Spence looked at the Pyramids of Giza, she found exactly this relationship - the earlier ones were lined up slightly to the west, and the later ones slightly to the east."

Dr. Spence's figure of 2467 BC from the stars is very close to what is known from history.


Link
Dating the pyramids › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science (ABC Science)

 

[Andrewn]

Archaeologists and historians tell us that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was built around 2,500 BC

Flood 2348 BC

I've always taken this discrepancy as evidence that humans were _not_ created 6000 years ago.

 

[Strathos]

Probably not.

 

[d taylor]

It is generally agreed that Abraham lived around 2,000 BC (or about 4,000 years ago). Archaeologists and historians tell us that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was built around 2,500 BC (or 4,500 years ago). So the Great Pyramid was about five hundred years old when Abraham came out of the city of Ur.

Creationists, or at least those who claim that the world is only six thousand years old, say that there are only 400 years between Noah's Flood and Abraham -- or even less, as we shall see. This is unworkable.

For instance, one website gives the following dates.*

Creation 4004 BC

Flood 2348 BC

Tower of Babel 2234 BC Only 114 years after the Flood????

Abraham 1996 BC Only 352 years after the Flood????



As you can see, this creationist date of 1996 BC for Abraham is very close to the generally accepted figure of around 2000 BC. Yet they claim that the Tower of Babel, an immense project requiring tens of thousands of workers, happened only a trifle over a hundred years after the Flood. These workers would have to be supported by millions of farmers or herders. Keep in mind that after the Flood, Genesis says there were only eight people in the world.

There is solid evidence that the Great Pyramid and others nearby were built around 2500 BC, about 500 years before Abraham. Creationist reckoning seems to put the Great Pyramid before the Flood.



*www.biblehistory.com/timeline

I would say no, the flood destroyed the ancient world.
Nothing survived but what was on the ark and the flood also broke up the single land mass created in Genesis.

and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

 

[Daniel Marsh]

It is generally agreed that Abraham lived around 2,000 BC (or about 4,000 years ago). Archaeologists and historians tell us that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was built around 2,500 BC (or 4,500 years ago). So the Great Pyramid was about five hundred years old when Abraham came out of the city of Ur.

Creationists, or at least those who claim that the world is only six thousand years old, say that there are only 400 years between Noah's Flood and Abraham -- or even less, as we shall see. This is unworkable.

For instance, one website gives the following dates.*

Creation 4004 BC

Flood 2348 BC

Tower of Babel 2234 BC Only 114 years after the Flood????

Abraham 1996 BC Only 352 years after the Flood????



As you can see, this creationist date of 1996 BC for Abraham is very close to the generally accepted figure of around 2000 BC. Yet they claim that the Tower of Babel, an immense project requiring tens of thousands of workers, happened only a trifle over a hundred years after the Flood. These workers would have to be supported by millions of farmers or herders. Keep in mind that after the Flood, Genesis says there were only eight people in the world.

There is solid evidence that the Great Pyramid and others nearby were built around 2500 BC, about 500 years before Abraham. Creationist reckoning seems to put the Great Pyramid before the Flood.



*www.biblehistory.com/timeline

This is fun, add the Exodus to the mix, since it would make more sense that slaves were used for the labor.

If the Great Pryamid was bult before the flood, it would make sense that it survived.

The other thing that would make sense is that Noah's flood was local.

In Hebrew, the word earth back then would only mean the dirt or land.
Earth Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
Different meanings of 'Earth' in Genesis 1

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
1. (n.) The globe or planet which we inhabit; the world, in distinction from the sun, moon, or stars. Also, this world as the dwelling place of mortals, in distinction from the dwelling place of spirits.
2. (n.) The solid materials which make up the globe, in distinction from the air or water; the dry land.

3. (n.) The softer inorganic matter composing part of the surface of the globe, in distinction from the firm rock; soil of all kinds, including gravel, clay, loam, and the like; sometimes, soil favorable to the growth of plants; the visible surface of the globe; the ground; as, loose earth; rich earth.

4. (n.) A part of this globe; a region; a country; land.

5. (n.) Worldly things, as opposed to spiritual things; the pursuits, interests, and allurements of this life.

6. (n.) The people on the globe.

7. (n.) Any earthy-looking metallic oxide, as alumina, glucina, zirconia, yttria, and thoria.

8. (n.) A similar oxide, having a slight alkaline reaction, as lime, magnesia, strontia, baryta.

9. (n.) A hole in the ground, where an animal hides himself; as, the earth of a fox.

10. (v. t.) To hide, or cause to hide, in the earth; to chase into a burrow or den.

11. (v. t.) To cover with earth or mold; to inter; to bury; -- sometimes with up.

12. (v. i.) To burrow.

13. (n.) A plowing.

A Worldview Approach to Science and Scripture

Christian View of Science and Scripture Paperback – June 1, 1954
by Bernard Ramm (Author)

 

[Job 33:6]

I've always taken this discrepancy as evidence that humans were _not_ created 6000 years ago.

Come on guys, no need for spoilers so soon into the talk.

 

[coffee4u]

It is generally agreed that Abraham lived around 2,000 BC (or about 4,000 years ago). Archaeologists and historians tell us that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was built around 2,500 BC (or 4,500 years ago). So the Great Pyramid was about five hundred years old when Abraham came out of the city of Ur.

Creationists, or at least those who claim that the world is only six thousand years old, say that there are only 400 years between Noah's Flood and Abraham -- or even less, as we shall see. This is unworkable.

For instance, one website gives the following dates.*

Creation 4004 BC

Flood 2348 BC

Tower of Babel 2234 BC Only 114 years after the Flood????

Abraham 1996 BC Only 352 years after the Flood????



As you can see, this creationist date of 1996 BC for Abraham is very close to the generally accepted figure of around 2000 BC. Yet they claim that the Tower of Babel, an immense project requiring tens of thousands of workers, happened only a trifle over a hundred years after the Flood. These workers would have to be supported by millions of farmers or herders. Keep in mind that after the Flood, Genesis says there were only eight people in the world.

There is solid evidence that the Great Pyramid and others nearby were built around 2500 BC, about 500 years before Abraham. Creationist reckoning seems to put the Great Pyramid before the Flood.



*www.biblehistory.com/timeline

Since the worldwide flood destroyed the ancient word I really could not see pyramids remaining intact without a lot of destruction, so the were built after the flood.

Also we vary between 6 to 15 thousand years, I am so very tired of 6 thousand being slung around by people who don't believe scripture as written.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

 

[Job 33:6]

Since the worldwide flood destroyed the ancient word I really could not see pyramids remaining intact without a lot of destruction, so the were built after the flood.

Also we vary between 6 to 15 thousand years, I am so very tired of 6 thousand being slung around by people who don't believe scripture as written.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Out of curiosity, what is YEC justification for 15,000 years? Most I've heard, such as Ken Ham, are usually pretty straight forward in stating 6,000 years old.

 

[Dale]

I would say no, the flood destroyed the ancient world.
Nothing survived but what was on the ark and the flood also broke up the single land mass created in Genesis.

and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

I don't believe that Genesis says that God created only one large land mass at the beginning.

 

[fwGod]

I've always taken this discrepancy as evidence that humans were _not_ created 6000 years ago.

The date of creation is based on the calculating of all pertinent names from Adam to Abraham and his descendants.
Since other genealogies in the Bible leave out non-pertinent names.. then there would be an inaccurate tally. Because of that, the genealogy record should not be used to determine the date of creation.. it wasn't intended to imply the date of creation, but rather to provide the line of Abraham from Adam. To show that God didn't just choose some random pagan man named Abram in Ur to make covenant with Him.

 

[Dale]

This is fun, add the Exodus to the mix, since it would make more sense that slaves were used for the labor.

If the Great Pryamid was bult before the flood, it would make sense that it survived.

The other thing that would make sense is that Noah's flood was local.

In Hebrew, the word earth back then would only mean the dirt or land.
Earth Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
Different meanings of 'Earth' in Genesis 1

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
1. (n.) The globe or planet which we inhabit; the world, in distinction from the sun, moon, or stars. Also, this world as the dwelling place of mortals, in distinction from the dwelling place of spirits.
2. (n.) The solid materials which make up the globe, in distinction from the air or water; the dry land.

3. (n.) The softer inorganic matter composing part of the surface of the globe, in distinction from the firm rock; soil of all kinds, including gravel, clay, loam, and the like; sometimes, soil favorable to the growth of plants; the visible surface of the globe; the ground; as, loose earth; rich earth.

4. (n.) A part of this globe; a region; a country; land.

5. (n.) Worldly things, as opposed to spiritual things; the pursuits, interests, and allurements of this life.

6. (n.) The people on the globe.

7. (n.) Any earthy-looking metallic oxide, as alumina, glucina, zirconia, yttria, and thoria.

8. (n.) A similar oxide, having a slight alkaline reaction, as lime, magnesia, strontia, baryta.

9. (n.) A hole in the ground, where an animal hides himself; as, the earth of a fox.

10. (v. t.) To hide, or cause to hide, in the earth; to chase into a burrow or den.

11. (v. t.) To cover with earth or mold; to inter; to bury; -- sometimes with up.

12. (v. i.) To burrow.

13. (n.) A plowing.

A Worldview Approach to Science and Scripture

Christian View of Science and Scripture Paperback – June 1, 1954
by Bernard Ramm (Author)

Daniel Marsh: "The other thing that would make sense is that Noah's flood was local."

You seem to be talking about the theory that what is now the Black Sea had a lot of dry land and people living there at one time. Then the thin wafer of land separating the Mediterranean Sea from the Black Sea broke down and flooded the whole area with salt water. I've seen estimates of 7,000 years ago to 9,000 years ago for when this happened. If it did happen, one could imagine what horror stories the survivors would tell.

If this happened, it could have inspired the story of Noah's Flood but it doesn't agree with the Biblical narrative that the Ark landed at high altitude on Mt. Ararat.

From what I read, science is leaning again this huge Black Sea event. Scientists are saying that if it happened it was much smaller than some have reported.

 

[Dale]

Since the worldwide flood destroyed the ancient word I really could not see pyramids remaining intact without a lot of destruction, so the were built after the flood.

Also we vary between 6 to 15 thousand years, I am so very tired of 6 thousand being slung around by people who don't believe scripture as written.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

I've never heard a figure of 15,000 years. As far as 6,000 being "slung around," maybe you could explain that to the people at www.biblehistory.com, which I quoted in the OP. The same goes for numerous other sources and sites which I keep running into.

As far as not believing "scripture as written," what do creationists believe? I go to church with people in their eighties and nineties. They have been creationists all their lives and they still don't know who the sons of Adam and Eve married. I don't have to bring that up, they volunteer it.

 

[d taylor]

I don't believe that Genesis says that God created only one large land mass at the beginning.

Genesis 1:9,10 is one piece of land surrounded by the sea

 

[Dale]

Genesis 1:9,10 is one piece of land surrounded by the sea

You are reading things into the text that are not there.

 

[klutedavid]

It is generally agreed that Abraham lived around 2,000 BC (or about 4,000 years ago). Archaeologists and historians tell us that the Great Pyramid of Egypt was built around 2,500 BC (or 4,500 years ago). So the Great Pyramid was about five hundred years old when Abraham came out of the city of Ur.

Creationists, or at least those who claim that the world is only six thousand years old, say that there are only 400 years between Noah's Flood and Abraham -- or even less, as we shall see. This is unworkable.

For instance, one website gives the following dates.*

Creation 4004 BC

Flood 2348 BC

Tower of Babel 2234 BC Only 114 years after the Flood????

Abraham 1996 BC Only 352 years after the Flood????



As you can see, this creationist date of 1996 BC for Abraham is very close to the generally accepted figure of around 2000 BC. Yet they claim that the Tower of Babel, an immense project requiring tens of thousands of workers, happened only a trifle over a hundred years after the Flood. These workers would have to be supported by millions of farmers or herders. Keep in mind that after the Flood, Genesis says there were only eight people in the world.

There is solid evidence that the Great Pyramid and others nearby were built around 2500 BC, about 500 years before Abraham. Creationist reckoning seems to put the Great Pyramid before the Flood.



*www.biblehistory.com/timeline

The pyramids are recent constructions.

Try the Barnenez in France, it is dated at 4850 BC.

 

[d taylor]

You are reading things into the text that are not there.

Taken From THE GEOGRAPHICAL MEANING OF "EARTH AND "SEAS" IN GENESIS 1:10 by Paul H. Seely
When a biblical text is interpreted outside of its historical context, it is often unconsciously interpreted in terms of the reader's own culture, time and beliefs. This has happened more than once to Genesis 1: To avoid distorting Genesis 1 in this way, the serious exegete will insist upon placing this chapter within its own historical context. When we do this, the meaning of "earth" and "seas" in Gen 1:10 is found to be quite different from the modern western notions.

the grammatical meaning of "earth" in Gen 1:10. The Hebrew word for earth (Crx, 'eres) in Gen 1 has several meanings in the OT, delineated in KB as (1) ground, piece of ground (2) territory, country (3) the whole of the land, the earth. In light of the universality of Gen 1:1, the meaning of 'eres in that verse is clearly the third listed meaning. If isolated from its historical context, 'eres in Gen 1:1 could conceivably be a reference to the earth as a planetary globe. The word 'eres in Gen 1:10 could then be a reference simply to the continents on that planetary globe especially since it is the "dry land" (hwBy, yabbasa) in contrast to the wet sea (cf.Exod 4:9; 14:16, 22, 29) which God in Gen 1:10 names ‘eres, "Earth."
But, interpreting Gen 1:10 as a reference to continents on a planetary globe, although seeming quite reasonable to the modern western reader, is completely contrary to its historical context. This is bad enough to make such an interpretation improbable; in addition, there is nothing whatsoever in the biblical context--either immediate or remote--which defines 'eres in Gen 1:1 as a planetary globe. This latter meaning is derived purely from the knowledge of modern Western science and simply read into the text.
Interpreting 'eres in Gen 1:1 as a planetary globe is eisegetical, not exegetical.
The 'eres in Gen 1:1 is indeed the entire earth; and since the 'eres in Gen 1:2 refers back to the 'eres mentioned in Gen 1:1, the 'eres in Gen 1:2, is also a reference to the entire earth. So, when the 'eres which had been buried in water and was barren (1:2) is separated from the water and mad to sprout vegetation in Gen 1:9-12, it too is the entire earth. The dry land of Gen 1:10 is the entire earth. This fits the historical context like a hand to a glove. The writer is speaking of the entire 'eres as (flat) dry land, not as a globe.
The writer of Gen 1 also makes it clear in verses six through eight that he is not defining 'eres as a globe, even in Gen 1:1 and 2. That is, in Gen 1:6-8 the entire sky is created in the form of a rock-solid firmament. This firmament was understood by all peoples in OT times to be in the
shape of a hemispherical dome (or a disc) which literally touched the earth (or the sea around the earth) at the horizon. Either way, whether the sky was conceived as a hemi-spherical dome touching the earth at the horizon or a flat unbending disc above the earth, the earth below cannot be a sphere because if it were, half of the earth would have no sky. The biblical context, therefore, not only provides no basis for defining 'eres in Gen 1:1 as a globe (and in Gen 1:10 as the continents on that globe), it excludes this interpretation by giving us a concept of the sky which coheres perfectly with the ancient Near Eastern concept of the earth as a flat circular disc but cannot be harmonized with the modern concept of the earth as a globe.

It is worth noting also that interpreting 'eres in Gen 1:10 as the dry land on a globe does not fit the context of modern science any better than it fits the context of Gen 1. For according to modern science the dry land on the globe preceded the formation of the sea by millions of years; but, according to Gen 1:1-10, the sea (MOht, tehom) preceded the formation of the dry land. This fact again tells us that the universe of Gen 1 is the universe as understood by all ancient Near Eastern peoples at that time and not as understood in our time. The earth of Gen 1:1, 2 and 10 is not a globe but a single flat continent in the shape of a flat circular disc.

 

[klutedavid]

Taken From THE GEOGRAPHICAL MEANING OF "EARTH AND "SEAS" IN GENESIS 1:10 by Paul H. Seely
When a biblical text is interpreted outside of its historical context, it is often unconsciously interpreted in terms of the reader's own culture, time and beliefs. This has happened more than once to Genesis 1: To avoid distorting Genesis 1 in this way, the serious exegete will insist upon placing this chapter within its own historical context. When we do this, the meaning of "earth" and "seas" in Gen 1:10 is found to be quite different from the modern western notions.

the grammatical meaning of "earth" in Gen 1:10. The Hebrew word for earth (Crx, 'eres) in Gen 1 has several meanings in the OT, delineated in KB as (1) ground, piece of ground (2) territory, country (3) the whole of the land, the earth. In light of the universality of Gen 1:1, the meaning of 'eres in that verse is clearly the third listed meaning. If isolated from its historical context, 'eres in Gen 1:1 could conceivably be a reference to the earth as a planetary globe. The word 'eres in Gen 1:10 could then be a reference simply to the continents on that planetary globe especially since it is the "dry land" (hwBy, yabbasa) in contrast to the wet sea (cf.Exod 4:9; 14:16, 22, 29) which God in Gen 1:10 names ‘eres, "Earth."
But, interpreting Gen 1:10 as a reference to continents on a planetary globe, although seeming quite reasonable to the modern western reader, is completely contrary to its historical context. This is bad enough to make such an interpretation improbable; in addition, there is nothing whatsoever in the biblical context--either immediate or remote--which defines 'eres in Gen 1:1 as a planetary globe. This latter meaning is derived purely from the knowledge of modern Western science and simply read into the text.
Interpreting 'eres in Gen 1:1 as a planetary globe is eisegetical, not exegetical.
The 'eres in Gen 1:1 is indeed the entire earth; and since the 'eres in Gen 1:2 refers back to the 'eres mentioned in Gen 1:1, the 'eres in Gen 1:2, is also a reference to the entire earth. So, when the 'eres which had been buried in water and was barren (1:2) is separated from the water and mad to sprout vegetation in Gen 1:9-12, it too is the entire earth. The dry land of Gen 1:10 is the entire earth. This fits the historical context like a hand to a glove. The writer is speaking of the entire 'eres as (flat) dry land, not as a globe.
The writer of Gen 1 also makes it clear in verses six through eight that he is not defining 'eres as a globe, even in Gen 1:1 and 2. That is, in Gen 1:6-8 the entire sky is created in the form of a rock-solid firmament. This firmament was understood by all peoples in OT times to be in the
shape of a hemispherical dome (or a disc) which literally touched the earth (or the sea around the earth) at the horizon. Either way, whether the sky was conceived as a hemi-spherical dome touching the earth at the horizon or a flat unbending disc above the earth, the earth below cannot be a sphere because if it were, half of the earth would have no sky. The biblical context, therefore, not only provides no basis for defining 'eres in Gen 1:1 as a globe (and in Gen 1:10 as the continents on that globe), it excludes this interpretation by giving us a concept of the sky which coheres perfectly with the ancient Near Eastern concept of the earth as a flat circular disc but cannot be harmonized with the modern concept of the earth as a globe.

It is worth noting also that interpreting 'eres in Gen 1:10 as the dry land on a globe does not fit the context of modern science any better than it fits the context of Gen 1. For according to modern science the dry land on the globe preceded the formation of the sea by millions of years; but, according to Gen 1:1-10, the sea (MOht, tehom) preceded the formation of the dry land. This fact again tells us that the universe of Gen 1 is the universe as understood by all ancient Near Eastern peoples at that time and not as understood in our time. The earth of Gen 1:1, 2 and 10 is not a globe but a single flat continent in the shape of a flat circular disc.

Go the Flat Earth Society.

 

[d taylor]

Go the Flat Earth Society.

I do not need, to go any where, the Bible is all i need.

 

[klutedavid]

I do not need, to go any where, the Bible is all i need.

All you need is faith in Jesus. The Bible can't save anyone.