Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

DavidPT

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Why?

Messiah is the only individual identified as a prince in the passage.

There is mention of abominations in those verses. What does any of that have to do with Christ?




Interesting. Yet, when one clicks on the link that takes you to the standard version, they didn't captalize prince in verse 26. Appparently then, I'm only meaning the translators who did the standard version, that they apparently didn't take the prince in verse 26 to be the same prince in verse 25, because in verse 25 they captalized that prince, and in verse 26 they didn't.

On a different note, I decided to check out Daniel 8:25 in the original KJV while I was at that link. The translators did not captalize prince in that verse, yet the translators doing the standard version did. I see no reasaon to think that the translators would have captalized prince in Daniel 8:25 unless they took that prince to be meaning deity, in this case Jesus.

While there is a chance that the Prince of princes could be meaning someone such as Michael, there is also a chance Jesus is meant by Michael in Daniel, but not like the JWs take it to mean, though. I'm not arguing that Jesus is meant by Michael in Daniel, I'm only pointing out that it's a possibility, but not like the JWs take it to mean.
 
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DavidPT

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Thanks for admitting that He was cut off "after" the 69 weeks, which would have to be during the 70th week.

.

That's only true if there are no gaps in the 70 weeks. Thusfar no one has convincingly proved to some of us that there are no gaps in the 70 weeks.
 
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DavidPT

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I don't need to check it out. No-one has successfully debunked that the vision in Daniel 9 is the vision of the little horn person, him stopping the daily sacrifice, and the 2300 days. And cannot debunk it because Daniel had no vision of any sorts in Daniel 9.

A synopsis of Daniel 9:21-24....

Daniel referred to the Daniel 8 vision>Gabriel said consider the vision>Gabriel said the vision would be fulfilled in the 70 weeks.

The vision of the little horn and 2300 days is time of the end.


Like you clearly pointed out, though some people just don't get it, probably don't want to get it, any mention of 'vision' in Daniel 9 has to be pertaining to a previous vision found elsewhere in Daniel. Daniel is not being shown any visions in ch 9, yet ch 9 speaks of the 'vision'. What vision, that's what a good detective should be asking themselves, since one needs to be almost like a detective to interpret some of these things correctly, since detectives typically examine evidence and try and determine what all it leads to.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Read the recent book by David Wilcoxson "The 70th Week of Daniel 9 DECODED", if you want to understand what the Pilgrims included in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible.

See the link below for an interview with David Wilcoxson on Remnant Radio.
Daniel 9: with David Wilcoxson - YouTube

Is the New Covenant found in Daniel chapter 9?


Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


The 1599 Geneva Bible is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America. What was their understanding of Daniel 9:27? Did they believe the “covenant with the many” in Daniel 9:27 is the “covenant with the many” in Matthew 26:28, which is the New Covenant? Did the angel Gabriel appear to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant?

The following comes from the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible.

………………………………………………………………


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.


(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.


(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


………………………………………………………………………………


During recent years many New Covenant scholars have examined Daniel chapter 9 from a New Covenant perspective. Did Christ fulfill the summary found in Daniel 9:24? Is it about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary?


Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (These two verses are quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.)

Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


The death of the Messiah is found in Daniel 9:26, and there are only two possible singular antecedents for the word “he” in the next verse. Those antecedents are either Christ or Titus, who was the prince of the people that destroyed the temple during 70 AD.


Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Is the “he” in Daniel 9:27 the “Messiah”, or “the prince” of the people that destroyed the city and the sanctuary in verse 26? If we used “the people of the prince” it would not be a singular “he”.


Does the author of the Book of Hebrews connect the New Covenant with the Messiah’s death found in Daniel 9:26, in the verse below?


Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. (NKJV)


Verse 26 also says the Messiah would be cut off “after” the 69 weeks. If I agree to paint your house “after” 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week, or after. Is there a “gap” of almost 2,000 years between the 69th week and the 70th week, or was it fulfilled during the first century when the Gospel was preached “first” to the Jews?


We know there is a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as the Apostle Paul said in the verse below.


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.


Can we find a time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” to Daniel’s people during the first century? If we can, we have good evidence that the 70th week of Daniel has already been fulfilled.


Did Christ command His disciples to take the Gospel only to Israel in the passage below?


Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'


Is the time period when the Gospel was preached “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews in the passage above, confirmed in the passage below?


Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


In the passage above Luke confirms the fact that the Gospel of Christ was preached throughout the land of Israel after the baptism which John preached. Here again, we have a text which reveals a time period when the Gospel was taken “first” to the Jews, as Paul said in Romans 1:16.


Bible scholars have looked at the number of Passover celebrations in the Gospels and have estimated Christ’s earthly ministry to have lasted about three and one half years. Was the Gospel taken “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews for a period of about three and one half years during the period of time revealed in the Gospels?


How did Peter address the crowd on the Day of Pentecost when about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary?


Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."


We know there was a time period between Calvary and Paul’s conversion, because he held the coats of those who stoned Stephen. Since Pentecost was almost 2 months after Christ died at Calvary, we know a time period of several months may have occurred before Paul came to faith in Christ.


What did Paul say below about the time period between his conversion and the day he went to see Peter?


Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.


In the passage above the Apostle Paul reveals there was a time period of about 3 years between the time of his conversion and the time he went to see Peter. Therefore, we know Paul did not start preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles until at least three years after his conversion.


Can we find a time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” (Rom. 1:16) to the Jews, before Paul began preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles?


3 ½ years during the earthly ministry of Christ

(Matt. 10:5-7, Acts 10:36-38)


Several months between Christ’s death and Paul’s conversion


3 years between Paul’s conversion and the time he went to see Peter.

(Galatians 1:14-18)


If the time periods above are added up we get a total time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken “first” to Daniel’s people, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles. Therefore, a New Covenant understanding of Daniel chapter 9 reveals the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century.


Did the sacrifices cease in the middle of the week, (after about 3 ½ years), when Christ died at Calvary? Why did God rip the temple veil in half at the moment Christ died? Even though the Jews continued to sacrifice animals after Calvary, were those sacrifices accepted by God? The answer to these questions can be found in the Book of Hebrews. Was Christ the final sacrifice for sin in Hebrews 10:16-18, in fulfillment of the New Covenant?


Very few modern Christians have ever heard the New Covenant interpretation of Daniel 9:27, which is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible.

.
Hi I respect your views and agree with the new covenant being fully in force but disagree with Dan 9 being fulfilled. I see a clear before and after picture which we have shared on another thread and see many linked prophecies all showing the same things coming indeed in the latter days and have a much greater change upon Israel and the earth and show life continuing on earth after the kingdom is established and Jesus takes the throne of David. This debate is really again coming down to is there a millennium or not with Jesus ruling from Jerusalem.

1st where I agree with you is Jesus certainly did bring in the new covenant and indeed there is a spiritual kingdom aspect that is also very clear.

Some observations that support a futurist view.

The kingdom that covers the earth and has no end can only have one beginning and in both new and old testament it tells the same event. In Zech 14 the LORD is king over all the earth when Jerusalem in being overrun and half the city is taken and the LORD comes and kills graphically those invaders. The nations which are left must from that point on must come to Jerusalem worship the king and keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain. This shows Jerusalem is saved when the kingdom comes and life continues after wards. If they are worshiping the king who is the king?

In this same chapter the Mt of Olives splits in two and this river flows now year round and going east. In Eze 47 this same river heals the dead sea and it is declared a prosperous fishing area and at this time the 12 tribes are given their inheritance.

In Dan 7 the kingdom that comes covers the earth and has no end comes when pompous one is persecuting the saints for 3 1/2 years or a time times and half a time and the son of man who is before the ancient of days is given the kingdom that covers the earth and has no end and the pompous one is given to the flame and the rest of the beast lose their dominion but have their lives prolonged for a season and a time. Now this is parallel to Rev 13 the beast who gains dominion over the earth for 42 months and he indeed is persecuting the saints until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of the LORD and his Christ and He shall rule forever. The beast is given to the flame and Satan is bound for 1000 years. The end of the beast is at Armageddon and that would bring Jerusalem in ZEch 14 into play and the LORD destroys them. Now after the 1000 years is over Satan is loosed and musters a last rebellion which surrounds Jerusalem and then fire comes down from heaven and that is it. Then the new Jerusalem comes down.

The book of Hosea talking of the latter days says this.
 
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Douggg

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Thanks for admitting that He was cut off "after" the 69 weeks, which would have to be during the 70th week
I am saying to you that after 69 weeks is not a sharp edge, but a blurred one because of the leap months. The 4 days is in that blurred zone.
 
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jgr

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There is mention of abominations in those verses. What does any of that have to do with Christ?

There is mention of (Messiah) the Prince in those verses. What does any of that have to do with antichrist?

Interesting. Yet, when one clicks on the link that takes you to the standard version, they didn't captalize prince in verse 26.

Which is more authoritative; the original translation, or subsequent revisions?
 
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jgr

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I don't need to check it out. No-one has successfully debunked that the vision in Daniel 9 is the vision of the little horn person, him stopping the daily sacrifice, and the 2300 days. And cannot debunk it because Daniel had no vision of any sorts in Daniel 9.

A synopsis of Daniel 9:21-24....

Daniel referred to the Daniel 8 vision>Gabriel said consider the vision>Gabriel said the vision would be fulfilled in the 70 weeks.

The vision of the little horn and 2300 days is time of the end.

You mean that you don't want to check it out to see that it's been debunked.

Provide just one name of any recognized expositor on the planet, past or present, who agrees with your fallacy regarding the vision.

Just one name.
 
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jgr

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You don't even put any link to what post of yours, you are claiming.

If you can find your own posts, you'll also find my posts.

Do you need help finding your own posts?

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for just one name.
 
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BABerean2

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In Zech 14 the LORD is king over all the earth when Jerusalem in being overrun and half the city is taken and the LORD comes and kills graphically those invaders. The nations which are left must from that point on must come to Jerusalem worship the king and keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain.

The change in lighting and the living waters in Zechariah 14, are found in Revelation 21, and Revelation 22.

What is the feast of believers found in the New Testament, which was instituted at the Last Supper?

Who is the "tabernacle" in the New Testament? See John 2:19, and 1 Peter 2:4-10.

When does the "plague" come to unbelievers in the New Testament? See 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and Matthew 25:31-46?

.
 
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Christian Gedge

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4 days after he arrived in Jerusalem after 69 weeks.

When it is talking about weeks of years, it is not talking about 365.25 days every year.

It is 360 days moon cycle yrs with make up leap months every 2 or 3 years based on a 19 years cycle.

The 4 days is not a factor of being into the 70th week, given that there are some years (called leap years) with an extra 30 day month in them for 13 months in those years instead of just the 12 months.

Man-made theory. Whether you realize it or not, you are following the theory of Sir Robert Anderson a Brethren apologist for John Darby.
 
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Douggg

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If you can find your own posts, you'll also find my posts.

Do you need help finding your own posts?
What thread and what number is your post?

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for just one name.
Why don't you list all of the humans who ever lived, and their position on the vision in Daniel 9:21-24 and I will see if there is one who meets your criteria you ask of me. Meanwhile, I will be waiting.
 
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Douggg

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Man-made theory. Whether you realize it or not, you are following the theory of Sir Robert Anderson a Brethren apologist for John Darby.
I don't whether the 19 year cycle intercalary years used by the Jews could be called man-made or not, but it is what they use.

That Jesus arrived in Jerusalem hailed by the messiah is in the text of John 12:12-15. Whether you consider that text man-made is your opinion, but it is in the text... and corresponds to the Daniel 9 term of "unto messiah". And is the fulfillment of bible prophecy of Zechariah 9:9.

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
 
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BABerean2

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I don't whether the 19 year cycle intercalary years used by the Jews could be called man-made or not, but it is what they use.

Douggg,

The man you are responding to Christian Gedge, who is the man that "literally" wrote the book on the ancient Hebrew calendar.

It is titled "The Atonement Clock".
It is one of the most powerful little books I have ever read.

He has forgotten more about the ancient Hebrew calendar than most of us will ever know.

.
 
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Christian Gedge

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I don't whether the 19 year cycle intercalary years used by the Jews could be called man-made or not, but it is what they use.
The ancient Hebrew calendar had a 49-year cycle; today's Jewish calendar is 19 years as you say. But neither system used a 360-day year! That is a man-made theory dreamed up in the late 19th century.
 
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jgr

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What thread and what number is your post?

Here it is.

Do you need to learn how to use the forum search engine?

Why don't you list all of the humans who ever lived, and their position on the vision in Daniel 9:21-24 and I will see if there is one who meets your criteria you ask of me. Meanwhile, I will be waiting.

Do you need to learn how to use a web search engine?

All I need is just one name.
 
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Douggg

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Do need to learn how to use a web search engine?

All I need is just one name.
I am not going on some wild goose chase, as it irrelevant, and is a diversion...whether there are one, none, a million.

The text of Daniel 9, the kjv, is on line available to anyone. And if they are a Christian, they can join and particpate in the discussions on this forum.
 
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jgr

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I am not going on some wild goose chase, as it irrelevant, and is a diversion...whether there are one, none, a million.

The text of Daniel 9, the kjv, is on line available to anyone. And if they are a Christian, they can join and particpate in the discussions on this forum.

Search engines are specifically created to minimize geese chases.

For those willing to use them.

Just one name.
 
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