Was Solomon saved?

[OzSpen]

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Where do repentance from sin and confession of sin fit into this theology?

 

[Aviela]

Not necessarily. Most sin without even realizing it - habit.
Deliberate sin is different.

Agree that's why I said very little.

 

[Aviela]

-

 

[Aviela]

The way I see it, the reason confession is there is because of our deliberate sins.
So, one sins deliberately because one is angry and does not care any more ... things like that.


About affecting salvation - losing or not losing salvation are not Biblical terms at all. We made them up.
The Bible presents whether or not we have life or not.
The one who has life yet sins deliberately WILL confess in his/her heart sooner or later.

OT however was a lot different.

Confession is for all sin even the unintentional. It's a pivotal part of how we can receive Gods grace for all our sin. ...ask and receive.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the loss of salvation in general or in regards with diliberate sin but think it's an important question to pose. Following ref. to the loss of crown an beining Luke warm May signify the possibility off a loss but in some ways one may also argue that one never have really accepted Gods salvation in the first place:

Revelation 3:11-19 New King James Version (NKJV) 11 Behold,[a] I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and
the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of
heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. 13 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ The Lukewarm Church 14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the
creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[c] I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are
wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be
clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Not suggesting one can remove our salvation but that our decisions / loss of faith / whether or not we accept salvation and God as our Savior affect our salvation. Ask and receive / confession and repentance seem to be crucial in both or and nt. Why was David spared?? ...because he was truly repentant.

 

[Aviela]

All sin is deliberate. But it doesn't affect our justification, just our sanctification.

Well we can do wrong even when we don't realize it because of our fallen nature and imperfection as humans.

Jeremiah 17:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[Aviela]

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

 

[Aviela]

Where do repentance from sin and confession of sin fit into this theology?

In order to truly believe in God we must truly see who we are and therefore our need for God and His saving grace. Thus accepting His place and our place in relationship based on the truth.

 

[Philothei]

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Edial

This is a verse taken out of Acts chapter 16

But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” 29And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

The Jailer Converted
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

If we take this verse in this context this talks about the Jaler who was baptized with his "whole household"

Christ was manifest by then to the people and the Gospel is proclaimed. The context alone tells us that this man was saved by baptism and of source his belief to Jesus Christ. That is the NT the New message from God brought about by Christ God's Son.

Now if we go back to Solomon that message is quite irrelevant as Christ was not even incarnated for Solomon to believe so this has to do with "context" we cannot take a new testament biblical text out of context to ...
prove an OT (Old Testament) or judge in this case the salvation of Solomon....

God would judge according people who lived prior to the Incarnation according to the revelation they had at their hands at the time of their life.

Of course the Old Testament Kings were saved for after all they all lived lives according to their law; that was given to them by God. The ten commandments and were Torah keepers. People sin they did commit errors as many of us do too. Paul was the worse sinner of all as we know a well known Christian persecutor. No one lives and does not live....
For only Christ is without sin.
(Heb 12:1) also refers to the " we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”
As far as the EO church that is what we believe about the topic:

The church fathers often extol these Old Testament heroes. St. John Chrysostom repeatedly urged his flock to emulate the patient endurance of “the great and noble Job.” St. Gregory of Nyssa writes, “Noah was a righteous man, the Scriptures say, and Abraham was faithful, Moses meek, Daniel wise, Joseph chaste, Job blameless, and David perfect in patience.”
Eleazar and the Maccabean martyrs, whose story is told in 2 Maccabees 6:18-7:42, deserve special attention. This Jewish scribe and seven brothers, along with their mother, Solomonia, valiantly defied the sacrilegious commands of King Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who was fiercely persecuting the Jews. For their defiance, they were brutally executed in Jerusalem in about 167 BC. These unwaveringly faithful Jews are prototypes of all the Christian martyrs. In their commemoration on August 1, they are called “great martyrs, before the martyrs of Christ.”
The Church’s high esteem for the Old Testament saints is also seen in her custom of depicting the forefathers and prophets around the base of the interior central dome of a church. And by remembering these saints in her liturgical calendar, the Orthodox Church demonstrates her understanding that the Body of Christ transcends limitations of time and space. This awareness is clearly expressed at every Divine Liturgy: “And again we offer unto You this reasonable service for all those who in faith have gone before us to their rest: patriarchs, prophets, apostles, preachers, evangelists, martyrs, confessors, ascetics, and every righteous spirit made perfect in faith.”

Saints of the Old Testament

Also 1Cor:5:12

"11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges.Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. "
For we are told not to judge the ones outside the church.... And again the ones who are NOT Christians such as the prophets the kings etc. that they were not Christians (even so Christ was not incarnated yet) are they supposed to be judged? No...why? because the ultimate judgement is up to God so if we wonder I would say in view of the above discussion no...God does not wish us to either judge thus not to condemn to hell so to speak anyone for ultimately it is his doing/and judgment. So Solomon will be judged in the end by God as any of us

 

[konroh]

Just a quick clarification to the above post. The Philippian jailer was saved by his faith, not his baptism.

and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household [because]

having believed in God with his whole household.

He and his household believed and were saved, therefore he and his household were baptized.

 

[Aviela]

Just a quick clarification to the above post. The Philippian jailer was saved by his faith, not his baptism.

and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household [because]

having believed in God with his whole household.

He and his household believed and were saved, therefore he and his household were baptized.

Agree

 

[Aviela]

Edial

This is a verse taken out of Acts chapter 16

If we take this verse in this context this talks about the Jaler who was baptized with his "whole household"

Christ was manifest by then to the people and the Gospel is proclaimed. The context alone tells us that this man was saved by baptism and of source his belief to Jesus Christ. That is the NT the New message from God brought about by Christ God's Son.

Now if we go back to Solomon that message is quite irrelevant as Christ was not even incarnated for Solomon to believe so this has to do with "context" we cannot take a new testament biblical text out of context to ...
prove an OT (Old Testament) or judge in this case the salvation of Solomon....

God would judge according people who lived prior to the Incarnation according to the revelation they had at their hands at the time of their life.

Of course the Old Testament Kings were saved for after all they all lived lives according to their law; that was given to them by God. The ten commandments and were Torah keepers. People sin they did commit errors as many of us do too. Paul was the worse sinner of all as we know a well known Christian persecutor. No one lives and does not live....
For only Christ is without sin.
(Heb 12:1) also refers to the " we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”

The prob is that Solomon did not obey but was still spared So the question why this is so has been posed. I brought up David being spared cause he was truly repentant.

 

[Philothei]

Just a quick clarification to the above post. The Philippian jailer was saved by his faith, not his baptism.

and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household [because]

having believed in God with his whole household.

He and his household believed and were saved, therefore he and his household were baptized.

The fact is that he was baptized yeah it resulted on his belief but that was a side note to the topic

 

[Philothei]

The prob is that Solomon did not obey but was still spared So the question why this is so has been posed. I brought up David being spared cause he was truly repentant.[/q

"So God said to him, 'Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, I will do what you have asked...'" (1 Kings 3:11–12)[11] The Hebrew Bible also states that "The whole world sought audience with Solomon to hear the wisdom God had put in his heart." (1 Kings 10:24)[12]


The judgment of Solomon (painting on ceramic), Castelli, IT: Lille Museum of Fine Arts, 18th century .


In one account, known as the Judgment of Solomon, two women came before Solomon to resolve a quarrel over which was the true mother of a baby. When Solomon suggested they should divide the living child in two with a sword, one woman said she would rather give up the child than see it killed. Solomon then declared the woman who showed compassion to be the true mother, and gave the baby to her.
Solomon is also noted as one of many authors of Wisdom literature. The apocryphal/deuterocanonical Wisdom of Solomon, along with the Book of Sirach, "are the familiar personalities and the events of Israel's history combined with the wisdom tradition. Much of this literature, however, is attributed to Solomon."[13] Solomon became a favorite author and contributor of different kinds of wisdom literature, "including not only the collections of Proverbs, but also of Ecclesiastes and the Song of Solomon and the later apocryphal book the Wisdom of Solomon."[13]

Solomon was deemed worthy enough to receive just like the prophets a gift of wisdom from God. Obviousy at the end of his life life he repented. The church does not judge the life of a king in this case based on what "rumors" etc. but on the bible plus what it was considered valid sources based on traditional methods of judging sainthood. Plus the fact that Solomon was at the same line of David also and the was the one who erected the temple helped also :

Ecclesiastes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Solomon was the potential author of Ecclesiastes in his old age.
I doubted that the Church fathers would not have looked in his life deeply before including him in the OT saints. Yes people fall astray yes people sin daily but they also repent daily and furtthermore they do repent in their old age. Judging from my parishioners yeah that is the time to truly come to account one's sins that is the last change we are given.

 

[Aviela]

Thanks for responding to the question Philiothei.

 

[Edial]

Where do repentance from sin and confession of sin fit into this theology?

What Aviela said.
If however we just believe as a matter of fact then our faith is no different than that of demons who also believe.
JAS 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

If we state we believe in Christ yet behave like demons, our belief is lip service and our deeds would testify to what we really believe.

 

[Edial]

Edial

This is a verse taken out of Acts chapter 16

If we take this verse in this context this talks about the Jaler who was baptized with his "whole household"

Christ was manifest by then to the people and the Gospel is proclaimed. The context alone tells us that this man was saved by baptism and of source his belief to Jesus Christ. That is the NT the New message from God brought about by Christ God's Son.

Baptism absolutely and definitely plays one of the major roles in salvation.

It is one of the forms of grace we are given.

Now if we go back to Solomon that message is quite irrelevant as Christ was not even incarnated for Solomon to believe so this has to do with "context" we cannot take a new testament biblical text out of context to ...
prove an OT (Old Testament) or judge in this case the salvation of Solomon....

God would judge according people who lived prior to the Incarnation according to the revelation they had at their hands at the time of their life.

OK. But judging is one thing and salvation is another.
Going to Heaven is not a matter of judgement, but that of grace and love.

The people of the OT were planning on going "to their fathers" and the place was Sheol.
Once, at one of my many moment of theological zeal, I did a study on each and every instance of Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Burning Lake, Tartarus, and on general understanding on the difference between Darkness and Deep Darkness.

Yes, there are "levels" in Sheol ... Abraham's Bosom is on top, the only place of comfort.

After all these studies I came up with this conclusion.

Outside of the Abraham's Bosom, in the best of its neighborhoods, Sheol/Hades is a sad place. In the worst of its neighborhoods, Sheol it is bad, really bad place.

The best I can say about Abraham's Bosom, it is a place of comfort, but not necessarily the place of Joy.

I am digressing ...

Of course the Old Testament Kings were saved for after all they all lived lives according to their law; that was given to them by God. The ten commandments and were Torah keepers. People sin they did commit errors as many of us do too. Paul was the worse sinner of all as we know a well known Christian persecutor. No one lives and does not live....


For only Christ is without sin.
(Heb 12:1) also refers to the " we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”
As far as the EO church that is what we believe about the topic:

Saints of the Old Testament

Also 1Cor:5:12

"11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges.Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. "
For we are told not to judge the ones outside the church.... And again the ones who are NOT Christians such as the prophets the kings etc. that they were not Christians (even so Christ was not incarnated yet) are they supposed to be judged? No...why? because the ultimate judgement is up to God so if we wonder I would say in view of the above discussion no...God does not wish us to either judge thus not to condemn to hell so to speak anyone for ultimately it is his doing/and judgment. So Solomon will be judged in the end by God as any of us

Yes, the Jewish saints of old, the Kings you mentioned, could not have been saved through keeping the Law.

GAL 2:15 "We who are Jews by birth and not `Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.
​

Of course they got saved ... but not before making a lengthy detour to a place like Abraham's Bosom (or maybe even a bit lower) and wait for Christ to come to hell for 3 days after His crucifixion and preach the gospel.

Christ made it for us much easier by opening the Heaven to the masses ...
absent from the body present with the Lord.

Do we judge people outside of church? No, as per your Corinthians text.
Do we judge each other inside? Yes.
But do we judge each others' ultimate goal? Heaven or Hell?
No. Dangerous game.

However, the Biblical characters are there for all to see, understand and try to learn what they did.

I do not judge anyone in the context of eternal salvation - even Hitler or other destructful characters history presents.
Yet I weigh (or judge) every act the saints committed in the Bible.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[FreeGrace2]

Solomon was deemed worthy enough to receive just like the prophets a gift of wisdom from God. Obviousy at the end of his life life he repented.

Or, not so obvious, given this passage: 1 Kings 11:1-13, especially:
1 Kings 11:4
For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.

That said, I believe it is obvious that he was a believer, as his father was. But he ended poorly.

 

[FreeGrace2]

What Aviela said.
If however we just believe as a matter of fact then our faith is no different than that of demons who also believe.

I think it is an error to ascribe believing to demons. James 2:19 doesn't say that they have faith. It does say that they believe that God is One. There are 2 reasons to think (believe) something is true. Experience or faith. The demons experienced the Oneness of God. They didn't "have faith" in it.

We believe God is One by faith, not by experience. A big difference.

JAS 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Believing that there is one God isn't saving faith, so we can't use this verse to try to demonstrate a difference in belief between demons and humans. In the gospels, most of the accounts where Jesus confronted demons, they all recognized Him as the Second member of the Trinity immediately. For humans, that is saving faith (Jn 20:31). But not for demons.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Baptism absolutely and definitely plays one of the major roles in salvation.
Ed

Then Paul should have answered the jailer this way:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized, and you will be saved."

But he didn't. Yes, the jailer and his house were baptized, but being baptized wasn't part of the answer to the jailer's question.

Baptism is a sign of obedience as a child of God; not part of the process in becoming a child of God.

 

[Edial]

I think it is an error to ascribe believing to demons. James 2:19 doesn't say that they have faith. It does say that they believe that God is One. There are 2 reasons to think (believe) something is true. Experience or faith. The demons experienced the Oneness of God. They didn't "have faith" in it.

We believe God is One by faith, not by experience. A big difference.

JAS 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Believing that there is one God isn't saving faith, so we can't use this verse to try to demonstrate a difference in belief between demons and humans. In the gospels, most of the accounts where Jesus confronted demons, they all recognized Him as the Second member of the Trinity immediately. For humans, that is saving faith (Jn 20:31). But not for demons.

There is a dead faith and there is a saving (live) faith.

Dead faith is when we discuss theology yet behave towards each other like pagans.