Was Solomon saved?

[Aviela]

Then Paul should have answered the jailer this way:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized, and you will be saved."

But he didn't. Yes, the jailer and his house were baptized, but being baptized wasn't part of the answer to the jailer's question.

Baptism is a sign of obedience as a child of God; not part of the process in becoming a child of God.

Agree I believe it is significant in our walk with God but not what saves us. Does enhance our relationship with God and are told to do it as we are told to do other spiritual things as well.

 

[Edial]

Then Paul should have answered the jailer this way:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized, and you will be saved."

But he didn't. Yes, the jailer and his house were baptized, but being baptized wasn't part of the answer to the jailer's question.

Baptism is a sign of obedience as a child of God; not part of the process in becoming a child of God.

It does not matter whether or not one is baptized before or after salvation, since baptism is a form of grace in itself.
That is why they got baptized.

But Peter did emphasized it as a part of salvation.

AC 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."
​

Thanks,
Ed

 

[FreeGrace2]

There is a dead faith and there is a saving (live) faith.

i don't think it is legit to equate a dead faith with a different, saving faith. James' point was that those believers who aren't demonstrating their faith have an unproductive faith. Not an "unsaving faith". James wrote to believers. He wanted all believers to demonstrate their faith.

But this doesn't address my point about the so-called faith of demons. James never said or suggested that what they believed about God was a dead faith.

[QUTOE]Dead faith is when we discuss theology yet behave towards each other like pagans.[/QUOTE]
I won't disagree with this. But in order to have a dead faith means it once had to be alive. Impossible to declare something "dead" if it wasn't first alive or operative.

Like a car battery. When operative, it starts your car. When dead, it doesn't.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It does not matter whether or not one is baptized before or after salvation, since baptism is a form of grace in itself.
That is why they got baptized.

But Peter did emphasized it as a part of salvation.

AC 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."
​

Thanks,
Ed

Though included, the text does not demand that baptism is necessary for salvation.

The greatest evangelist ever, Paul, made this comment:

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

Seems to me that if Paul knew that baptism is necessary for salvation, he would have emphasized it, not de-emphisized it. If baptism is necessary for salvation, then Paul's approach was only half right.

 

[Aviela]

What Aviela said.
If however we just believe as a matter of fact then our faith is no different than that of demons who also believe.
JAS 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

If we state we believe in Christ yet behave like demons, our belief is lip service and our deeds would testify to what we really believe.

I think you have a valid point but I think it's more about yielding and accepting God is the one to lead us and we can yield not just through works but in other things as well. I guess you could say the heart of the matter is our heart. God is my Lord and Saviour. Where as I believe in gravity but it is not my lord an saviour.

 

[Edial]

Confession is for all sin even the unintentional. It's a pivotal part of how we can receive Gods grace for all our sin. ...ask and receive.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the loss of salvation in general or in regards with diliberate sin but think it's an important question to pose. Following ref. to the loss of crown an beining Luke warm May signify the possibility off a loss but in some ways one may also argue that one never have really accepted Gods salvation in the first place:

Revelation 3:11-19 New King James Version (NKJV) 11 Behold,[a] I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and
the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of
heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. 13 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ The Lukewarm Church 14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the
creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[c] I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are
wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be
clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Not suggesting one can remove our salvation but that our decisions / loss of faith / whether or not we accept salvation and God as our Savior affect our salvation. Ask and receive / confession and repentance seem to be crucial in both or and nt. Why was David spared?? ...because he was truly repentant.

Heaven is for people who want to go to Heaven.

Heaven is for people who want to be adopted into the family of God.

Salvation is a process.

In some instances in the Bible salvation is synonymous with justification, which is instantaneous.
Yet Abraham was justified only 12+ (?) years later when he tried sacrificing Isaac.
Yet, he was proclaimed righteous when he believed that he would have a son (Isaac).

Salvation is a process ... there are levels ... there is progress.

Once we understand this, we understand salvation.

If we do not understand this we make up theological doctrines with catchy acronyms like OSAS vs OSNAS ... grrr.

We say - I am born again! when I put My faith In Christ, as if God was not working in our lives prior to it.

Maybe another thread ...

 

[Edial]

i don't think it is legit to equate a dead faith with a different, saving faith. James' point was that those believers who aren't demonstrating their faith have an unproductive faith. Not an "unsaving faith". James wrote to believers. He wanted all believers to demonstrate their faith.

Was Abraham justified before Isaac was born or after he tried sacrificing him?

But this doesn't address my point about the so-called faith of demons. James never said or suggested that what they believed about God was a dead faith.

Why not?
Faith = believe

HEB 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

And James called dead faith as belief in context of theology without works.

JAS 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.



[QUTOE]Dead faith is when we discuss theology yet behave towards each other like pagans.[/quote]
I won't disagree with this. But in order to have a dead faith means it once had to be alive. Impossible to declare something "dead" if it wasn't first alive or operative.

Like a car battery. When operative, it starts your car. When dead, it doesn't.[/quote]
JAS 2:25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

 

[Edial]

Just a quick clarification to the above post. The Philippian jailer was saved by his faith, not his baptism.

and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household [because]

having believed in God with his whole household.

He and his household believed and were saved, therefore he and his household were baptized.

Depends how you look at it.

Welcome to CF

If you believe baptism is purely symbolic and practically is meaningless then yes, in this opinion baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

If you believe that salvation is a process consisting of steps, then baptism is one of those steps.

If you believe baptism in itself is a grace of God then it is a part of salvation.

If you believe salvation and justification are synonymous and instantaneous ... then the Bible would make no sense and we develop camps of OSAS vs OSNAS with each one carrying his own set of verses.

In my opinion ...

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Aviela]

Heaven is for people who want to go to Heaven.

Heaven is for people who want to be adopted into the family of God.

Salvation is a process.

In some instances in the Bible salvation is synonymous with justification, which is instantaneous.
Yet Abraham was justified only 12+ (?) years later when he tried sacrificing Isaac.
Yet, he was proclaimed righteous when he believed that he would have a son (Isaac).

Salvation is a process ... there are levels ... there is progress.

Once we understand this, we understand salvation.

If we do not understand this we make up theological doctrines with catchy acronyms like OSAS vs OSNAS ... grrr.

We say - I am born again! when I put My faith In Christ, as if God was not working in our lives prior to it.

Maybe another thread ...

Our walk with God is a process and I may even contemplate at times differing levels of faith etc but We were not told believe and live and wait 10 years and you might be be saved. We are told we ARE justified by faith and HAVE peace with God and HAVE access by faith to grace. It does not say in the future we will be saved.

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Rom 5:1-2

9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been
reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received
reconciliation. Rom 5:9-11

However, I totally agree that we should be active Christians and I do think we can lose faith / obedience and think there is the possibility of loss of salvation if we refuse God as our Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:16 (NIV) 16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

So many other examples also but yes as Christians our faith should be active.

We ought to keep in mind that we are talking about new covenant theology as opposed to old test. Theology in which is relevant to Solomon. However, Again in the following passage it does not say that Abraham and David we're save through baptism. Abraham believed...

Romans 4:1-6
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a] 4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from
works:

Also:

Romans 3:21-30 New International Version (NIV) Righteousness Through Faith 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished
— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. 27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised
through that same faith.

Not meaning to be long winded but on this point of what salvation is seems quite clear to me.

 

[Edial]

Our walk with God is a process and I may even contemplate at times differing levels of faith etc but We were not told believe and live and wait 10 years and you might be be saved. We are told we ARE justified by faith and HAVE peace with God and HAVE access by faith to grace. It does not say in the future we will be saved.

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Rom 5:1-2

9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been
reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received
reconciliation. Rom 5:9-11

However, I totally agree that we should be active Christians and I do think we can lose faith / obedience and think there is the possibility of loss of salvation if we refuse God as our Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:16 (NIV) 16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

So many other examples also but yes as Christians our faith should be active.

We ought to keep in mind that we are talking about new covenant theology as opposed to old test. Theology in which is relevant to Solomon. However, Again in the following passage it does not say that Abraham and David we're save through baptism. Abraham believed...

Romans 4:1-6
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a] 4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from
works:

Also:

Romans 3:21-30 New International Version (NIV) Righteousness Through Faith 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness,
because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished
— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. 27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised
through that same faith.

Not meaning to be long winded but on this point of what salvation is seems quite clear to me.

 

[Aviela]

Depends how you look at it.

Welcome to CF

If you believe baptism is purely symbolic and practically is meaningless then yes, in this opinion baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

If you believe that salvation is a process consisting of steps, then baptism is one of those steps.

If you believe baptism in itself is a grace of God then it is a part of salvation.

If you believe salvation and justification are synonymous and instantaneous ... then the Bible would make no sense and we develop camps of OSAS vs OSNAS with each one carrying his own set of verses.

In my opinion ...

Thanks,
Ed

I'd just like to state that baptism is not meaningless to me just as works are not meaningless to me but, IMO, they are not salvation.

 

[Edial]

I'd just like to state that baptism is not meaningless to me just as works are not meaningless to me but, IMO, they are not salvation.

How about a statement like this:
Each act of grace, mercy and love towards us is the salvation process of God - from drawing us to ending up in Heaven.

 

[Philothei]

Baptism absolutely and definitely plays one of the major roles in salvation.

It is one of the forms of grace we are given.

yeah I agree

OK. But judging is one thing and salvation is another.
Going to Heaven is not a matter of judgement, but that of grace and love.

The people of the OT were planning on going "to their fathers" and the place was Sheol.
Once, at one of my many moment of theological zeal, I did a study on each and every instance of Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Burning Lake, Tartarus, and on general understanding on the difference between Darkness and Deep Darkness.

Yes, there are "levels" in Sheol ... Abraham's Bosom is on top, the only place of comfort.

After all these studies I came up with this conclusion.

Outside of the Abraham's Bosom, in the best of its neighborhoods, Sheol/Hades is a sad place. In the worst of its neighborhoods, Sheol it is bad, really bad place.

The best I can say about Abraham's Bosom, it is a place of comfort, but not necessarily the place of Joy.

I am digressing ...

Yeah that is what about I learned at the seminary too

The descent of Christ to Hades does denote that He emptied it out with his resurrection all the OT people were raised with Him. The Heaven and Hell how are two different places without any connection in between for per Christ's parable of the wealthy man and Lazarus there is still communication and there are levels.

Yes, the Jewish saints of old, the Kings you mentioned, could not have been saved through keeping the Law.

GAL 2:15 "We who are Jews by birth and not `Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.
​

Of course they got saved ... but not before making a lengthy detour to a place like Abraham's Bosom (or maybe even a bit lower) and wait for Christ to come to hell for 3 days after His crucifixion and preach the gospel.

Christ made it for us much easier by opening the Heaven to the masses ...
absent from the body present with the Lord.

Do we judge people outside of church? No, as per your Corinthians text.
Do we judge each other inside? Yes.
But do we judge each others' ultimate goal? Heaven or Hell?
No. Dangerous game.

Yep I agree that it is dangerous game anyhow you summed it up pretty well for me

However, the Biblical characters are there for all to see, understand and try to learn what they did.

I do not judge anyone in the context of eternal salvation - even Hitler or other destructful characters history presents.
Yet I weigh (or judge) every act the saints committed in the Bible.

Thanks,
Ed

Yep we can investigate and should for we learn more about our faith def. no harm to do that at all.... We can and should avoid sinful individuals for the fear or imitating of getting laxed towards our own salvation for sure that is what Paul is talking about and I agree. But as far as people outside the realm of the church we cannot judge that was the point of the verse and maybe since Israel is the precursor of Christianity does fall under the umbrella of "judging the ones who are in the church" BTW I am impressed by your knowledge of theology here

You must be a great Bible study leader Ed If we were closed I would attend them too

 

[Philothei]

As far as baptism why would Christ say" go therefore and make disciples and baptize them...." The command is to baptize NOT only to ask for them to believe...We are not Mulsims that the only thing needed is to confess Alah as the prophet of God

I agree with Ed who said that even the demons believe that is the true and they also bow down to him as we see in the miracles of Christ who deals with demons they are all thrown down to his feet... It is not enough to believe you need to make a commitment to that faith to confess that faith and baptism is an affirmation of God's grace to that individual ...For starters Christ was baptized ...did really Christ needed to be baptized? Why the ritual?

 

[Philothei]

Yeah baptism is not a guarantee to salvation....as one can decide easily to leave the faith... even if a church would perform a ritual that is NOT to safeguard one's salvation rather to facilitate it and lead to it! We receive the gift of the Holy Spirit but still without our participation in our own salvation (synergy) one cannot achieve it for it is an empty action if one denies that grace from God

 

[Edial]

Yep we can investigate and should for we learn more about our faith def. no harm to do that at all.... We can and should avoid sinful individuals for the fear or imitating of getting laxed towards our own salvation for sure that is what Paul is talking about and I agree. But as far as people outside the realm of the church we cannot judge that was the point of the verse and maybe since Israel is the precursor of Christianity does fall under the umbrella of "judging the ones who are in the church" BTW I am impressed by your knowledge of theology here

You must be a great Bible study leader Ed If we were closed I would attend them too

Oh, you should attend ... move.
Every Tuesday night at my church in West Hempstead, NY - 20 min drive from me.

I have handouts, flowcharts and all.
Verse by verse ... chapter by chapter.

 

[Philothei]

Oh, you should attend ... move.
Every Tuesday night at my church in West Hempstead, NY - 20 min drive from me.

I have handouts, flowcharts and all.
Verse by verse ... chapter by chapter.

easily said than done

 

[Aviela]

How about a statement like this:
Each act of grace, mercy and love towards us is the salvation process of God - from drawing us to ending up in Heaven.

IMO if that were the case the thief on the cross would be fresh out of luck and I don't see scriptures supporting that as I explained here in the previous post #169

However, I do believe there is a process to our salvation but not to the same extent as you describe. For instance, God can draw us before we r saved and then we can accept or reject and after we accept we grow in faith and discernment etc but IMO we are already saved once we accept and believe. Following passages come to mind regarding living a consciously Christian life / having a living faith to use your term and will explain my views regarding the importance of works in our lives:

4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of
Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:4-6

9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God. Philippians 1:9-11

Ephesians 4:12-16 (NIV) 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness
of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is,
Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.


Ephesians 3:16-21 (NIV) 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long
and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. 20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

 

[Philothei]

IMO if that were the case the thief on the cross would be fresh out of luck and I don't see scriptures supporting that as I explained here in the previous post #169

However, I do believe there is a process to our salvation but not to the same extent as you describe. For instance, God can draw us before we r saved and then we can accept or reject and after we accept we grow in faith and discernment etc but IMO we are already saved once we accept and believe. Following passages come to mind regarding living a consciously Christian life / having a living faith to use your term and will explain my views regarding the importance of works in our lives:

Most def. we are saved the moment we belief even if we are just starters ... Even the catechumens of the church are considered saved not only the full members through baptism.... Like I said baptism too is NOT the precursor to salvation it is just a further facilitator It is the grace of the Holy Spirit sealed on our souls just like Christ showed through his own baptism...We see the spirit in the form of he dove; we hear the voice of God and etc. It is the actual manifestation of the Holy Trinity present
But by no means the belief and acceptance of Christ as our savior is not enough to salvation....It is like we are given MORE than just belief we are also given a "bigger weapon" when we are baptized Just like the Apostles baptized all who were confessing that JC was their savior...

The thief on the cross was baptized by Christ right then and there for he had no time; he was minutes away from the Kingdom of God. That does not mean that baptism is pointless or unecessary that means that baptism was annulled for Christ is ultimately the one who can exercise the waiving away of a ritual such as the baptism. Yeah he can make exceptions such was the exception of the Apostles baptized with water instead they were baptized with fire

Baptism is a gift we are given by Christ and a commandment ...It is like we are given a gift that we can use to keep us in line as an aid to our salvation. We can deny it but if we can get it why not use it? That is my thinking about baptism But I understand that some do not see it that way and I am ok with it

 

[Aviela]

Most def. we are saved the moment we belief even if we are just starters ... Even the catechumens of the church are considered saved not only the full members through baptism.... Like I said baptism too is NOT the precursor to salvation it is just a further facilitator

I see this as contradictory. Either we are saved when we accept and believe or we r not saved. For instance How can we say we saved someone from drowning and then proceed to say but they aren't saved in totality. Saved is saved. how fruitful their life becomes is a different issue.

It is the grace of the Holy Spirit sealed on our souls just like Christ showed through his own baptism...We see the spirit in the form of he dove; we hear the voice of God and etc. It is the actual manifestation of the Holy Trinity present
But by no means the belief and acceptance of Christ as our savior is not enough to salvation....It is like we are given MORE than just belief we are also given a "bigger weapon" when we are baptized Just like the Apostles baptized all who were confessing that JC was their savior...

The thief on the cross was baptized by Christ right then and there for he had no time; he was minutes away from the Kingdom of God. That does not mean that baptism is pointless or unecessary that means that baptism was annulled for Christ is ultimately the one who can exercise the waiving away of a ritual such as the baptism. Yeah he can make exceptions such was the exception of the Apostles baptized with water instead they were baptized with fire

Baptism is a gift we are given by Christ and a commandment ...It is like we are given a gift that we can use to keep us in line as an aid to our salvation. We can deny it but if we can get it why not use it? That is my thinking about baptism But I understand that some do not see it that way and I am ok with it

Yes I believe the Holy Spirit can do greater works in our lives once we yield to the requests / commands of God but again that is different than salvation.

Also not clear what u mean regarding the thief on the cross being baptized...