Was Solomon saved?

sdowney717 · Feb 12, 2014

Edial said:
But the entire message of the OT is the record of disobedience, not of obedience.
The Israelites did go back to their former ways of life once life got better after they cried out to God.

The entire spiritual message humanity sends is - I'm in trouble. ... GOD!

No more trouble ... whew, that was close ... let's eat and drink!

Only the incredible patience and love of God could overcome our utter unfaithfulness.

Not all Israel is of Israel

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, In Isaac your seed shall be called.
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, The older shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.

v8, the children of the promise. The promise was Abraham would have a son.
Abraham it was impossible to have a son in the natural, they were barren.

God tells Abraham He will give Abraham a son. This was spiritual and monergistic action of God.

The children of the promise are spiritual, monergistically birthed.

They are then the children of God.

And today in the NT, Jesus in John 17 receives them as Children of God birthed by God monergistically according to God's own choice, they are given to Jesus as believer gifts from Father to Son.

John 17

Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

'In Isaac your seed shall be called'
God's choice results in our new birth as we are the children of God.

FreeGrace2 · Feb 12, 2014

Edial said:
Of course they did.
The 6 steps I have listed are the Gospel of the OT without actually naming Christ.
God was saying elsewhere His own Hand will save us.
Whatever I listed there is the NT gospel skeleton without details and clarity NT gives.

It is not that God is coming to man, it is that the Kingdom of God is breaching the world.
Remember in Revelation that the sky rolled up like a scroll and people were freaking out and trying to hide from the face of God?
Remember where is says in Heb 8:5 that the temple here is the copy and shadow of the one in Heaven?
Remember in Revelation when John was measuring the temple?
... as if the temple of Heaven would "land" on Solomon's temple on earth (which would be rebuilt by then)?

The Kingdom of God would breach (destroy) and then swallow the world.

In the end, it would be like in the Garden of Eden - there would be no separation between the Natural and Supernatural.
The sin is gone.

However, it would be incredibly more magnificent than the Garden, since the Garden in itself was just a seed of something more incredible.

The shape is pyramid since Christ is both Cornerstone and Capstone (capstone is the tip).

Satan is imitating everything God is doing, Egyptian pyramids, Pharaoh's ... topic is absolutely fascinating.

And oh, the neat things I have to discuss ... how God brought the judgment on the gods of Egypt ... Ex 12:12 ... also the Greek gods (demons) taking charge over the Egyptian gods ...

Bible is an absolutely magnificent Book.

Amen!

Edial · Feb 12, 2014

sdowney717 said:
Not all Israel is of Israel

v8, the children of the promise. The promise was Abraham would have a son.
Abraham it was impossible to have a son in the natural, they were barren.

God tells Abraham He will give Abraham a son. This was spiritual and monergistic action of God.

The children of the promise are spiritual, monergistically birthed.

They are then the children of God.

And today in the NT, Jesus in John 17 receives them as Children of God birthed by God monergistically according to God's own choice, they are given to Jesus as believer gifts from Father to Son.

John 17

'In Isaac your seed shall be called'
God's choice results in our new birth as we are the children of God.

I understand what you are saying.
There is a vast world of discussion on salvation outside of Calvinism/Arminianism debates - a plain reading of the Bible with help of concordance, lexicons, dictionaries YET without the guidance of books nor commentaries .
(Of course, one needs to know the basics of the Bible first before chucking the commentaries )

Once one reads and has an open mind the Bible opens up like a flower.

We no longer read to fit verses into boxes, we read and travel into areas we never thought we would discover.

The Bible is the most MAGNIFICENT Book once one reads it for what it says and has an open mind.
And the more you do that the more the Bible agrees with itself.
It is an amazing process when verses start falling in place "on their own".
No more uncomfortable discussions on "it does not say what it looks it says" ... such discussions also damage the faith of some.
No more cookie cutter reading.

I am not trying to judge you , I am trying to help you.

shturt678s · Feb 12, 2014

Edial said:
Of course they did.
The 6 steps I have listed are the Gospel of the OT without actually naming Christ.
God was saying elsewhere His own Hand will save us.
Whatever I listed there is the NT gospel skeleton without details and clarity NT gives.

It is not that God is coming to man, it is that the Kingdom of God is breaching the world.
Remember in Revelation that the sky rolled up like a scroll and people were freaking out and trying to hide from the face of God?

Remember where is says in Heb 8:5 that the temple here is the copy and shadow of the one in Heaven?

Heb.8:5: Only a small discrepancy, ie, the point is here the ministry or service, that of the Jewish high priests being as inferior as to their ministry or service in their Sanctuary, not in the courtyards in the Temple worship.

Remember in Revelation when John was measuring the temple?
... as if the temple of Heaven would "land" on Solomon's temple on earth (which would be rebuilt by then)?

Rev.11:1, "sanctuary" and not "temple". Everywhere when you see naos render "sanctuary" and render ieron "Temple".

Not picking on you, ie, only trying to help, ie, letting "....as if the sanctuary of Heaven" and "Solomon's temple (perfect here!) on earth (whcih would be rebuilt by then)?" which is being rebuilt right now (IIThess.2:4 "sanctuary") go for now.

The Kingdom of God would breach (destroy) and then swallow the world.

In the end, it would be like in the Garden of Eden - there would be no separation between the Natural and Supernatural.
The sin is gone.

However, it would be incredibly more magnificent than the Garden, since the Garden in itself was just a seed of something more incredible.

Always appreciate you and your words,

Old Jack

btw my brother Edial carefull with your "Amens"

The shape is pyramid since Christ is both Cornerstone and Capstone (capstone is the tip).

Satan is imitating everything God is doing, Egyptian pyramids, Pharaoh's ... topic is absolutely fascinating.

And oh, the neat things I have to discuss ... how God brought the judgment on the gods of Egypt ... Ex 12:12 ... also the Greek gods (demons) taking charge over the Egyptian gods ...

Bible is an absolutely magnificent Book.

Aviela · Apr 8, 2014

shturt678s said:
IISam.7:12-16 Due to following into idolatry, and as punishment for this, after Solomon's death his kingdom was rent from his son, not indeed entirely, as one portion was still preserved to the family for David's sake (IKi.11:9) the Lord punished Solomon, but did not withdraw his grace, ie, Solomon was saved.

Old Jack

Interesting...ideas.

Aviela · Apr 8, 2014

Edial said:
What good is grace if one is willfully disobedient and conscious of what he was doing?

Excellent question. Thanks for asking it.

Aviela · Apr 8, 2014

OzSpen said:
What are your criteria for being saved in the OT?

I Kings 3:3 states, 'Solomon loved the Lord, walking in the statutes of David his father, only he sacrificed and made offerings at the high places' (ESV). Do the latter sins exclude him from entry into the kingdom?

I think that's the pivotal question.

Aviela · Apr 8, 2014

Edial said:
Well, we do not enter the Kingdom because we sinned more or less, we enter if sins are forgiven ...

Great point but I would pose the question of how / does deliberate sin affect our salvation.

Aviela · Apr 8, 2014

Aviela said:
Great point but I would pose the question of how / does deliberate sin affect our salvation.

lol there is very little other kind of sinning beside deliberate sin....

Edial · Apr 8, 2014

Aviela said:
lol there is very little other kind of sinning beside deliberate sin....

Not necessarily. Most sin without even realizing it - habit.
Deliberate sin is different.

Edial · Apr 8, 2014

Aviela said:
Great point but I would pose the question of how / does deliberate sin affect our salvation.

The way I see it, the reason confession is there is because of our deliberate sins.
So, one sins deliberately because one is angry and does not care any more ... things like that.

About affecting salvation - losing or not losing salvation are not Biblical terms at all. We made them up.
The Bible presents whether or not we have life or not.
The one who has life yet sins deliberately WILL confess in his/her heart sooner or later.

OT however was a lot different.

Hammster · Apr 8, 2014

Aviela said:
Great point but I would pose the question of how / does deliberate sin affect our salvation.

All sin is deliberate. But it doesn't affect our justification, just our sanctification.

Edial · Apr 8, 2014

Hammster said:
All sin is deliberate. But it doesn't affect our justification, just our sanctification.

All are deliberate.
Would you agree however there is a difference between sins we commit with full awareness and the ones we are not aware of?
Do you think obedience plays role in this?

Hammster · Apr 8, 2014

Edial said:
All are deliberate.
Would you agree however there is a difference between sins we commit with full awareness and the ones we are not aware of?
Do you think obedience plays role in this?

I'm sure that there are sins that we aren't aware of. But they are still deliberate. I think as we grow in grace, and deal with one area of our walk, God then precedes to show us other areas. That part of progressive sanctification.

Fester · Apr 8, 2014

Edial said:
All my Christian life I thought Solomon was saved. But now I am not so sure. Certainly does not look like he was. What do you say? Thanks, Ed

How can I get saved?

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Edial · Apr 8, 2014

Hammster said:
I'm sure that there are sins that we aren't aware of. But they are still deliberate. I think as we grow in grace, and deal with one area of our walk, God then precedes to show us other areas. That part of progressive sanctification.

That is true.
My point is also that obedience on our part plays an important role in our sanctification.
Once the Lord shows us we ought not to do something, do we react in obedience or continue as before?

Edial · Apr 8, 2014

Fester said:
How can I get saved?

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Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

sdowney717 · Apr 8, 2014

Fester said:
How can I get saved?

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whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Romans 10
8 But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart[e] (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.[f] 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

13 For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.[g]

OzSpen · Apr 8, 2014

OzSpen · Apr 8, 2014

Fester said:
How can I get saved?

Sent from my iPhone using CF

I suggest that you consider this summary: 'The content of the Gospel ... and some discipleship', which I've adapted from John MacArthur's material. You need to investigate these dimensions that are needed for salvation to happen. Consider:

the nature of God,
the nature of the human condition,
how you need to respond to the
salvation that is offered.

Oz

Was Solomon saved?

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