Was sin created by God ?

[rena42war]

God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness.

 

[billybtennessee]

God created beings and gave them the capacity to rebel and disobey Him. He wants a people who will seek Him, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, Acts 17:27.

In the days of Noah, Why did such evil cause God to repent that He had made man? "As it was in the days of Noah." Matt. 24:37-39.

 

[Hismessenger]

Isa 66:1Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth [is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me? and where [is] the place of my rest?

Isa 66:2 For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Tell me something which the word all doesn't incompass and you have an argument, but if not, accept the truth without trying to understand the why's and wherefores. He says that his ways are unsearchable but most can't hear that truth and accept it. Sin in it's hidden form of denial of the truth.

hismessenger

 

[billybtennessee]

If the OP question is answered yes, and I assume by His post that it is, then why did it grieve Gods heart, and why did He repent that He had made man, as He saw the wickedness in the earth? Gen. 6:6.

It will be the same conditions upon His return. "As it was in the days of Noah".

 

[Hismessenger]

It was stated for our benefit, to show how we have grieved the Holy Spirit.

hismessenger

 

[billybtennessee]

It was stated for our benefit, to show how we have grieved the Holy Spirit.

hismessenger

It is also a true account, it actually happened, yes? According to Jesus, as it was then, so it will be before His return. James 1:13-17. Now how does that explain sin?

 

[Hismessenger]

Does God make mistakes or have to second guess himself in what he has ordained?

That explains sin for it has purpose in his creation, therefore he created it as a tool to test the heart. If your never given a test, how do you grow in God.

hismessenger

 

[billybtennessee]

No answer to the question about the text of Genesis 6:5,6. God saw the wickedness of man, it says it repented the LORD that He had made man, and it grieved Him in His heart. This was the reason for the flood. Why is there a problem in accepting what the text says? Jesus also said this would be how it will be just before His return. Now some are of the opinion, that Gen. 1-11 are not literal, I would differ regarding that. Gen. 1-11 tells us much regarding creation, and regarding sin, exactly what this thread is about.

I also saw no comment regarding James 1:13-17, regarding the reason one sins. I see nowhere in that text one could say God caused it, or in Gen. 6:5,6. God is in total control, but that has nothing at all to do with these text. One part of scripture will not destroy what scripture says about the same subject, somewhere else. Not the way scripture should be studied, anyhow.That is how one finds what the scripture as a WHOLE teaches.

Is Gen. 6:5,6, accepted? How does James 1:13-17 explain why man sins? What do these verses say regarding God, and sin?

 

[Hismessenger]

To accept Gen 6:5,6 at face value is to place upon God The finite understanding of what the verses say without rightly dividing the word. I asked you if God is capable of a mistake and to assume that those verses show that God had to repent of an action that He ordained before man was ever created is to try and bring God down to our level of understanding. AS I stated before, it was written for our benefit. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Do you really think that if God is in control and is the creator of all that He didn't know what was going to happen.

Isa 40:13 Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, Or [as] His counselor has taught Him?

Isa 40:14
With whom did He take counsel, and [who] instructed Him, And taught Him in the path of justice? Who taught Him knowledge, And showed Him the way of understanding?

For anyone to take literally what was said is trying to bring God down to our understanding when it is not possible that he wasn't aware what man would do after being corrupted by Satan or for that fact what Satan himself would do to bring about his fall.

Christ was ordained to be the savior of the world before the foundations of the world were laid. So every subsequent action happening in the creation had to be to the fulfillment of that ordination. God's word is true and cannot come back void. If he has purposed it, it will come to pass, regardless of what we think it should or shouldn't be. It was for our benefit and what we are able to understand without it blowing the tops off our heads.

hismessenger

 

[billybtennessee]

To accept Gen 6:5,6 at face value is to place upon God The finite understanding of what the verses say without rightly dividing the word. I asked you if God is capable of a mistake and to assume that those verses show that God had to repent of an action that He ordained before man was ever created is to try and bring God down to our level of understanding. AS I stated before, it was written for our benefit. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Do you really think that if God is in control and is the creator of all that He didn't know what was going to happen.



For anyone to take literally what was said is trying to bring God down to our understanding when it is not possible that he wasn't aware what man would do after being corrupted by Satan or for that fact what Satan himself would do to bring about his fall.

Christ was ordained to be the savior of the world before the foundations of the world were laid. So every subsequent action happening in the creation had to be to the fulfillment of that ordination. God's word is true and cannot come back void. If he has purposed it, it will come to pass, regardless of what we think it should or shouldn't be. It was for our benefit and what we are able to understand without it blowing the tops off our heads.

hismessenger

I really do not understand where you are coming from, but I just disagree, I don't condemn your view. Regarding your scripture, I personally can't see how those verses listed in my comment do any of those things, so I consider them out of context regarding Gen. 6:5,6. and James 1:13-17. I made the same comment that the verses did. The subject is sin, what causes sin, and sin in relation to how God views it. Has nothing at all to do with trying to counsel God.

I disagree about one taking the scripture literal, at face value here, bringing God down to our understanding, they were/are Gods words anyhow. How would the author know in his own understanding that God saw the wickedness in those days? He wasn't there. This was given to him by God Himself, so the thought that what God says is going to bring God down to mans understanding, in that scripture, is definitely an unfounded thought.

It was not the author, or my repeating what the text says, that said it repented the LORD that He had made man, that is what God said. The same goes for mans wickedness grieving His heart. This is what God said, it is right there, in the verse. Sorry, I just can not understand your logic regarding this.

Quoting James, and I do not believe James is bringing God down to our understanding, this was what God inspired him to write, "for God cannot be tempted by evil, neither tempteth He anyone." "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed, then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." This is about sin, what causes sin, and sin in relation to God.

Knowing rebellion would come, and sin would bring about the fall, and God Himself providing the reconciliation, does not bring God down any, at all. It rather shows His mercy, His love, His ultimate authority. God did not need to create sin in order to do that, rather that would show variation, shadow of turning. Instead it shows the opposite, that nothing satan, or man, or anything else that would usurp Gods might, will succeed.

Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree, Brother.

 

[Hismessenger]

God did not need to create sin in order to do that But he did for His purpose which is what I am saying about trying to bring Him down to our level of understanding. Just because we don't understand the reasonings behind What God is doing doesn't change the fact that in order for it to exist in this creation, it must be sustained by God or else it will simply go away just as it will When He calls an end to the creation as we know it. The word says;

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

I believe that it was mentioned that sin is a dominion for the word says that sin had dominion over me. So if He created Dominions how do you answer that. All things were created by Him and for Him/purpose. Sin could not exist in the creation unless it has purpose for Him.

all things were created by him, and for him:

You have to take all the scripture into account before you try and say what can and can't be of God. It doesn't always fit into what we think.

hismessenger

 

[billybtennessee]

I see they are coming out with a version of the Bible that is gay-friendly. 'Adam and Steve', etc, language is used. I see some variance there, and definitely some turning. God said they were 'Adam and Eve'. Now with God "there is no variation or shadow of turning." There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever who is behind that, and it is not God. I will not make those accusations myself, just to avoid choice.

 

[Hismessenger]

Jhn 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

Jhn 14:30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

Jhn 16:11 "of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

The scripture that I posted said;

whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:

So now ask yourself who made Satan the ruler over this world if God is in total control?

hismessenger

 

[billybtennessee]

The scripture that I posted said;



So now ask yourself who made Satan the ruler over this world if God is in total control?

hismessenger

God is in total control. In my last comment I stated the differences that this subject will end with. Everything God made was "very good". Gen. 1:31, and as James 1:17 also states. In this very good is the fact that God allows His created beings freedom to choose, God did not consider it good to force submission, or force one to love and serve Him, but yes, God is in total control, this changes nothing at all regarding that God controls everything..

There will, however, be penalties for going toward, choosing, darkness, away from God. That is also why hell was created. The resurrection of Jesus Christ will also bring ALL to resurrection. 1st Cor. 15:21,22. The penalty for disobeying the gospel will be severe and eternal, 2nd Thess. 1:8,9.

The differences will always come down to choice. One side will say and teach that God does not allow choice, nor one to be able to believe. The other does believe God allows choice, and seeks those who believe in, and love Him, freely. John 14:15,21-24. We do not need to keep swapping verses. Yes, God made all, and God is in total control. He allows choice. That is why/how evil exists. You sin even as a christian. Do you sin because God made you sin, or you were given choice, and choose to freely? One can also forsake the right way, 2nd Pet. 2:15, and turn from the Holy commandment delivered to them, 2nd Pet. 2:21. We earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered, unto the saints, Jude verse 3. Those who separate 'themselves' will answer for that choice, Jude verses 18,19. One can overcome through Jesus Christ alone, we freely come to Him, and serve Him, Rev. Chapter 3. Thanks for the opportunity to share Gods word together.

 

[Hismessenger]

The differences will always come down to choice.

THat very statement is the reason for sin. When God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree, did he say you think it over and decide.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

It was none other than Satan who made man think he has a choice .

Nowhere in the command do you see an inkling of choice. Thou shalt not eat of it. God commanded them not to eat. The problem is we don't submit ourselves to God and follow where he leads without question. WE think we have a choice and there is where sin came in. Believing the lie of Satan rather than the truth of God. Sin has dominion over us until we give Christ His rightful place and He takes dominion over our heart.

hismessenger

 

[billybtennessee]

THat very statement is the reason for sin. When God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree, did he say you think it over and decide.



It was none other than Satan who made man think he has a choice.

hismessenger

Did they have choice? Who gave satan choice, and Adam and Eve? This theology is flawed. The answer is obvious. This attributes 'choice' to satan, not to God.

I believe satan is the one who brought rebellion, disbelief, and doubt. He was given freedom in that choice, as we are.

This theology contradicts its own statements. "It was none other than satan who made man think he has a choice."

What does "think" have to do with anything? They either had the choice, or they did not. They disobeyed because they "think" they could? I respect your right to "think" that, and "choose" that too, how to believe.

 

[mark1982]

Biblically speaking, all things were existed by God, so in my opinion, at first God created all things beautiful but He allows His creations to be susceptible to sin that they may become ugly but God’s purpose is maybe to demonstrate His power that He can restore His creations again into beauty because He is all powerful. Actually He can completely change ugliness into forever beauty, God promise us that someday He will make all things new and He will wipe away all tears in our eyes and we will be with Him forever.

 

[Hismessenger]

Did they have choice? Who gave satan choice, and Adam and Eve? This theology is flawed. The answer is obvious. This attributes 'choice' to satan, not to God.

It doesn't attribute choice to Satan because He already knew the deal when he was cast out of heaven. He lied to Adam and Eve and made them think they had choice. The command gave no option . It was either do it or die.

[QUOTEJhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. ][/quote]

Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone [was] your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
Eze 28:14 "You [were] the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.

Eze 28:15 You [were] perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.

So now I ask you in all truthfulness, do you really think that God didn't know what was going to happen since he is the creator and controls everything for HIS glory. Our finite mind can't conceive the workings of God and therefore, we have no right to speak on things we don't know the first part of. Look at what God told Job who was a righteous man before God but still without understanding. To say what God will and won't do is placing your thoughts on his plan. Can't happen.

hismessenger

 

[theWaris1]

So now I ask you in all truthfulness, do you really think that God didn't know what was going to happen since he is the creator and controls everything for HIS glory. Our finite mind can't conceive the workings of God and therefore, we have no right to speak on things we don't know the first part of. Look at what God told Job who was a righteous man before God but still without understanding. To say what God will and won't do is placing your thoughts on his plan. Can't happen.

hismessenger

I believe he knew. I believe Satan was created to fall. He was perfect til iniquity was found in him -- Kind of sounds like the iniquity was there waiting to be revealed.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.



Several words were used for Sin
Sin = and offense
Sin = Missed, as in missed the mark.
Evil = Bad

Is there a Difference?

Satan became the "Adversary" or was he created for this role?

It is my opinion that Yhwh created us an Adversary.
Everywhere we turn we have adversaries.
Christ needed an Adversary in order for him to be a sacrifice for our sin.


(Pro 16:4) The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


Job 12:6 The tabernacles(tents) of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly.

Why would God bring an abundance to Robbers and those who provoke him? Why allow it?


16 With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.


There is a deep hidden secrets in the scripture on this subject. But it will take a while for me to bring them together.

.

 

[billybtennessee]

He lied to Adam and Eve and made them think they had choice. The command gave no option . It was either do it or die.

[QUOTE When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. ]

hismessenger[/quote]

Yes, he lied. He is the father of lies. He convinced them they
could disobey God, with no penalties. Choice is always involved regarding disobedience, unbelief, doubt. It is why we are told to obey, believe, have faith. This is why almost the entire Bible calls us to believe and to obey God. Even gives examples of those who did not, and exhorts to not do as they did. To listen to some, almost the entire Bible is exhorting us to do and hear what we can not. Flawed theology. Another lie. Just like the first one. It was not "do it or die". The words are "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

satan is the one who quoted God saying, "Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" That is what makes him a liar, he changes what God says. He accuses God, and those who serve God. He twists words around so that God is who He is not. He twists words around so that God does not really say what He said.

Annihilationist use Gen. 3:4 to say Jesus is wrong about eternal hell, and those who believe Him are too. According to them, to believe such is to teach the same thing satan did in Gen. 3:4. Twist the truth. There is a lot of that going around.