Was sin created by God ?

beloved57

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rev 4:
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Many today really underestimate, or dont believe this precious truth, or they limit its meaning.
But the truth of the matter is that all which we experience and see of in this world was created for The Triune's God purpose and pleasure..not one speck of dust is excepted, all for His pleasure, which includes sin and evil.
In the greek, it would read The all is created for thy pleasure, things was just added by the translators..

remember isa 53:

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
It pleased the LORD to bruise Him, for sin..the word pleased is the hebrew word:
chaphets :

to delight in, take pleasure in, desire, be pleased with

to delight in, have pleasure in

b) to be pleased to do

So it is plainy seen, that the sin offering christ was made for His people was pleasing and a pleasure for the Lord, He delighteth in it, hence we see how the greatest evil in the world, was actually created for Gods pleasure..
Lets look at an new testament passage that teaches the same thing..col 1:

16For by him[Jesus christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

It certainly cannot be denied from this passage we have revealed that God by the Mediator of Man, Jesus christ, again created all things..

more descriptively, we have created , principalties, powers, dominions, thrones.and ect..
all entities in heaven, in earth, visible and invisible..

sin is a power..its an entity, its a dominion..

lets look at rom 6:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

yes, sin is a dominion..and according to col 1 all dominions were created by God..

what is the meaning of dominion ?

its the greek word:

kyrieuô which means:

to be lord of, to rule, have dominion over

2) of things and forces

a) to exercise influence upon, to have power over

Surely our expirence of sin fits this very definitions..

The humble david prayed ps 19:

Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

david believed this blessed truth that i am sharing today from the word of God, that sin is a dominion, created by and controlled by the Sovereign Lord, and that it serves His pleasure..

The word sin is given identity in rom 7:

8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
note, sin taking occasion..

9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, [sin]deceived me, and by it [sin]slew me.

13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin

now does the Law of God have being, power, or entitiy ? So likewise the Law of sin..

Therefore sin too is a power..
and what does the scripture say in col 1:

16For by him[Jesus christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

If sin is a power, like rom 7 declares it to be, then according to this scripture, it was created for Jesus christ..
Sin was created for Jesus christ to die for, was it not ? Did not Jesus christ die for sin ?
1 cor 15:

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

was not this dying for sin of Gods eternal purpose ? eph 3:

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Was not this declared as Gods eternal purpose too in rev 13: 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[for sin] from the foundation of the world.
9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Its clearly taught in scripture, for those who are of God, that sin was created by and for God, yes, it in all its evil, only serve the wise purpose of God, in the salvation of His people, through our Lord Jesus christ..

Only Gods True sheep will hear Gods voice in this blessed truth, but Gods enemies will reject and contradict it, but this too, is the pleasure of the Lord..
 
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BrotherHicks

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You said, "Its clearly taught in scripture, for those who are of God, that sin was created by and for God, yes, it in all its evil, only serve the wise purpose of God, in the salvation of His people, through our Lord Jesus christ.."

No, it is not even remotely taught in Scripture. Sin is not a thing created by God, it is a choice of rebellion against God. God did not want to save people, but made provision for the wrong people committed. Most of the verses you gave do not even apply to what you are talking about and your confusing words is strange to say the least.
 
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msortwell

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Yes it is, but only if your born of God and taught of God..

It seems that you do not differentiate between that which God directly created (their original state) and the actions that those creatures would certainly (consitent with God's ordained plan) commit after their creation.

Is this the case?

Blessings.
 
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God is both all-knowing and all-powerful. If that premise is accepted, there is only one conclusion that can be drawn: He KNEW man would fall, and he ALLOWED it to happen. While He did not say directly "Let there be sin", He may as well have since He already had knowledge that man was going to go down that road from the beginning.
 
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jesse a

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I was always taught that God is Holy. There is no shadow of sin with in Him. I believe that the origins and purpose of sin is one of those things that will never be understood by us here on this earth. Just contemplating the question hurt my faith for many years. I have come to the conclusion that, I don't need to know the answer to everything and that I won't know the answers to a lot of things while I am in the flesh.
 
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yashua1970

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no, God did not creat sin. Sin was present went Lucifer rebelled agaisnt GOD

1st John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Satan never rebelled against God. God created Satan for a purpose.
Here's just one:
“Then was Jesus led up of the SPIRIT [of GOD] into the wilderness [This is the Spirit of God leading Jesus up into the wilderness. But why? For what purpose?] to be tempted [Gk: ‘tested’] OF THE DEVIL [Satan, Ver. 10]” (Matt. 4:1).

“Out of the mouth of the most High proceeds not evil and good?” (Lam. 3:38).
“I will raise up evil against you out of your own house…” (II Sam. 12:11).
“…I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction” (Jer. 4:6).
“…Hear, O earth; behold, I will bring evil upon this people…” (Jer. 6:19).
“…Thus says the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you…” (Jer. 18:11).
“…so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until He have destroyed you from off this good land…” (Josh. 23:15)
“What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil (Job 2:10).
“…shall thee be evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it?” (Amos 3:6).

Did “…the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan…” (Rev. 20:2), form himself out of a perfect angel/cherub, or did God form this serpent as he now is?

“By His spirit He [God] has garnished [adorned] the heavens; His hand has formed the crooked serpent” (Job 26:13).

God did not form a perfect cherub named Lucifer who then became the crooked serpent.
Satan was not an “Angel of Light which transformed himself into Satan,” as the Christian Church teaches, but rather:

“And no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed [Gk: or ‘disguised’—Strong’s #3345] into an angel of light” (II Cor. 11:14).

The “Lucifer became Satan” fable is Scripturally contradicted by the “Satan pretends to be an angel of light” truth.
Satan the serpent is a destroyer:

“Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer” (I Cor. 10:10).

What is this “destroyer?” The word is taken from the Greek word, olothreutes, and guess what it means? It means “venomous SERPENT.” This serpent is a “destroyer.” God “formed the crooked serpent,” and this serpent is a “destroyer.” Isn’t that the very purpose for which God created this “venomous serpent/destroyer?”

“Behold I have created the smith that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for his work; and I [God] have created the waster [Heb: ‘destroyer’] to destroy” (Isa. 54:16).


Again there are no forces "against" God, rather all things are "of" God to fulfill "his" purpose.
 
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DonnyT

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Again there are no forces "against" God, rather all things are "of" God to fulfill "his" purpose.

Agreed. Do we really think God, who is all powerful, would allow an apposing force to run as rampant as a lot of Christians teach that it does? Unless it somehow fulfills His purpose.
 
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yashua1970

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Agreed. Do we really think God, who is all powerful, would allow an apposing force to run as rampant as a lot of Christians teach that it does? Unless it somehow fulfills His purpose.

Never!!
Yet The current system of Christianity teaches duality, not oneness. In fact the current system of Christianity teaches that Satan is more powerful than God himself. I studied for many years about the subject of "God" and came to some conclusions that the church would burn me at the stake for, but I also realize that most of the questions are Taboo in Christianity, and are better left for places such as this.
 
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RedCherry

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Of course God created sin. Even children can connect the dots here, especially considering his all-importance. God is behind everything, every consequence of our free-experienced wills, of Satan, of everything. He knew beforehand that Satan would fail, before He banished him to hell and had his wings ripped off like the rest of them, thus invoking much bitterness in Satan, and causing him to infest human life on earth, causing genetic diseases, homosexuality, pedophilia, cancer, dracula, obesity, gluttony, pretty much everything. God is omnipotent, playing Sim City with the rest of us, and he has promised Salvation for mankind, but he had to sacrifice his son for it first. Anyway, follow God and you won't be affected by sin, you will be part of Gods goodness, not the evil he created. It is your choice, though God of course knows what you have chosen. Life is like going to the cinema, you know the ending was filmed before you entered, but you are still eager to watch.
 
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Christos Anesti

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Sin isn't a substance or essence. Sin is the corruption of something that is good. All things God created are good. In so far as something exists it is good. In so far as it falls aways from Existence it is understood to be afflicted by sin.

There is no objective existence to sin. It is as nothing compared with God. It just really bothers us finite contingent beings for whom it is a very powerful fact of life.
 
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Christos Anesti

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St Augustine kind of touches on that in his "Confessions". I just picked up a copy at a garage sale yesterday* so I will post a quote from it.

"It was made manifest to me that beings that suffer corruption are nevertheless good. If they were supremely good, they could not be corrupted, but unless they were good, they could not be corrupted. If they were supremely good, they would be incorruptible, and if they were not good at all, there would be nothing in them to be corrupted. Corruption damages a thing and it would not suffer damage unless its good were diminished. Therefore, either corruption damages nothing, and this cannot be, or whatever suffers corruption is deprived of some good, and this fact is most certain. If things are deprived of all good whatsoever, they will not exist at all. If they continue to be, and still continue incapable of suffering corruption, they will be better than before, because they will remain forever incorruptible.

What is more monstrous than to claim that things become better by loosing all their good? Therefore, if they are deprived of all good, they will be absolutely nothing. hence, as long as they exist, they are good. Therefore, whatsoever things exist are good. But evil, of which I asked "whence is it?" is not a substance, for if it were a substance, it would be good. Either it would be an incorruptible substance, a great good indeed, or it would be a corruptible substance, and it would not be corruptible unless it were good. Hence I saw and it was made manifest to me that you have made all things good, and that there are no substances whatsoever that you have not made."

This is very interesting given St Augustine's conversion from Manicheanism which posited the real existence of evil as a counter substance to the good God. Augustine later understood that evil itself does not have true existence to begin with.

*Yay! I love garage sales. I'm so happy it's becoming garage sale season again lol.
 
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Shulamite

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1st John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Satan never rebelled against God. God created Satan for a purpose.
Here's just one:
“Then was Jesus led up of the SPIRIT [of GOD] into the wilderness [This is the Spirit of God leading Jesus up into the wilderness. But why? For what purpose?] to be tempted [Gk: ‘tested’] OF THE DEVIL [Satan, Ver. 10]” (Matt. 4:1).

“Out of the mouth of the most High proceeds not evil and good?” (Lam. 3:38).
“I will raise up evil against you out of your own house…” (II Sam. 12:11).

“…I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction” (Jer. 4:6).

“…Hear, O earth; behold, I will bring evil upon this people…” (Jer. 6:19).

“…Thus says the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you…” (Jer. 18:11).

“…so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until He have destroyed you from off this good land…” (Josh. 23:15)

“What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil?” (Job 2:10).

“…shall thee be evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it?” (Amos 3:6).

Did “…the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan…” (Rev. 20:2), form himself out of a perfect angel/cherub, or did God form this serpent as he now is?

“By His spirit He [God] has garnished [adorned] the heavens; His hand has formed the crooked serpent” (Job 26:13).

God did not form a perfect cherub named Lucifer who then became the crooked serpent.
Satan was not an “Angel of Light which transformed himself into Satan,” as the Christian Church teaches, but rather:

“And no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed [Gk: or ‘disguised’—Strong’s #3345] into an angel of light” (II Cor. 11:14).

The “Lucifer became Satan” fable is Scripturally contradicted by the “Satan pretends to be an angel of light” truth.
Satan the serpent is a destroyer:

“Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer” (I Cor. 10:10).

What is this “destroyer?” The word is taken from the Greek word, olothreutes, and guess what it means? It means “venomous SERPENT.” This serpent is a “destroyer.” God “formed the crooked serpent,” and this serpent is a “destroyer.” Isn’t that the very purpose for which God created this “venomous serpent/destroyer?”

“Behold I have created the smith that blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for his work; and I [God] have created the waster [Heb: ‘destroyer’] to destroy” (Isa. 54:16).


Again there are no forces "against" God, rather all things are "of" God to fulfill "his" purpose.


Agreed and well said. Ephesians 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will.

ALL things (good and evil) are a tool in the hands of the Lord to accomplish His will. Even when a king attacked Israel, he did so thinking in his heart that it was of his own desire and initiation, but the Lord said, "Isaiah 10:14-15 Shall the axe boast over him who hews with it, or the saw magnify itself against him who wields it? As if a rod should wield him who lifts it, or as if a staff should lift him who is not wood! "

Kings have been used by God to accomplish His purposes, even without knowing it.
Satan is a tool, used by the Lord, to accomplish His plans.
 
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Shulamite

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Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

There was and is no choice available for the wicked. God made them to do what they do and do that they WILL by Gods Decree and Design.

Yes, yes, yes.... :amen:

Some are vessels prepared for wrath and can only function as such. Just as a hammer was fashioned a hammer and can only function as a hammer. Romans 9 clearly states that God has decided who the vessels of mercy (the elect) are and who the vessels of wrath are. A vessel can only behave how it was designed to be. Proverbs 16:4 expresses that perfectly.
In Romans 9, Paul had people oppose him and argue with him over this. They said, "Well, if no one can resist God's will, then why does He still charge us with sin?" Obviously Paul's opponents understood exactly what Paul was trying to say otherwise they would not be arguing with him.

God is Sovreign, totally Sovreign, no "if's", "and's" or "but's" about it.
I am chosen in Him, by Him, by His grace. I was elected by Him to belief of the truth solely based on His Sovreign will. Not by MY will or might, but by His Spirit!
 
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