Was Orlando Shooter Really Acting for ISIS? For ISIS, It’s All the Same

[LivingWordUnity]

PARIS — The revelation that the 29-year-old man who opened fire on Sunday in a gay nightclub had dedicated the killing to the Islamic State has prompted a now-familiar question: Was the killer truly acting under orders from the Islamic State, or just seeking publicity and the group’s approval for a personal act of hate?

For the terror planners of the Islamic State, the difference is mostly irrelevant.

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Source:
The New York Times (Jun 12, 2016)

 

[Oafman]

Yes, they benefit from this, whether they were involved in any way in planning it, or not.

They especially benefit if we give them 'credit' for it. If we describe it as an 'ISIS attack on America' etc. One paper ran the headline 'ISIS vs USA'. Put yourself, if you can, in the shoes of a semi-convinced Islamist, who hates America but isn't sure about Islamic State. Reading that, you'll be more inclined to think IS are serious and are achieving something, and more inclined to join them.

Our media have been IS' main recruitment outlet for a long time now. We play into their hands.

 

[High Fidelity]

It's hard to quantify this sort of thing.

Seems anyone lost in life looking for a cause, meaning or conviction can very easily cause carnage and proclaim a cause to feel a sense of achievement, fulfilment, notoriety, attention etc. Their face and name makes headlines around the world.

Naturally, ISIS will be glad for the PR. They operate on fear and one of the best ways to make a point is to hit your enemy where they feel safest.

 

[trunks2k]

Aside from the fact that he went in and killed dozens of people, the guy seems have had a screw loose with some weird delusions of grandeur. In the past he claimed to be in opposing terrorist groups at the same time. I've known people like that who know of a couple related, but distinctly different, groups and claim to be part of them to make themselves look really important (i.e. "you better be careful because I'm in the Marines and the Army, and I'll get my buddies to beat you up").

On the news this morning they were reporting that the FBI was saying there's no evidence that he acted in conjunction with any other group or individual. It looks like he very well may have just flipped out, and attributed his actions to a group that knew about that kinda lined up with his messed up reality. Of course ISIS is more than happy to accept the attribution.

 

[TLK Valentine]

On the news this morning they were reporting that the FBI was saying there's no evidence that he acted in conjunction with any other group or individual. It looks like he very well may have just flipped out, and attributed his actions to a group that knew about that kinda lined up with his messed up reality. Of course ISIS is more than happy to accept the attribution.

And the American Right is more than happy to believe the attribution without question. Everybody wins!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

And the American Right is more than happy to believe the attribution without question. Everybody wins!

I guess we'll have to ask the epistemological question, does rhetoric or teachings by a person/group, make them responsible for the actions of other people who might act on that rhetoric?

I suspect we'll have conflicting responses based on what I've seen in other threads. (pertaining to campaign rally related violence)

 

[LivingWordUnity]

If a terrorist pledges allegiance to the ISIS they are in fact part of ISIS since that's all that is required for ISIS membership. If people miss that point they are going to miss the pattern. And if they miss the pattern they will be surprised every time one of these Islamic terror attacks happens.

From the OP article (added emphasis):

"This public oath is about the only requirement that the Islamic State imposes on followers who wish to carry out acts of terror in its name. In an annual speech, the terror group’s spokesman, Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, last month incited its supporters to carry out killings abroad during the holy month of Ramadan."
.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Was the killer truly acting under orders from the Islamic State, or just seeking publicity and the group’s approval for a personal act of hate? The New York Times (Jun 12, 2016)

He was acting under jihad propaganda that should be removed from the internet along with porn, violence and hatred. If you can blame anyone for this tragedy it would be the United States Supreme Court and the Liberals that appointed them and the Liberals that approved their appointment to the court.

I am not saying the conservatives are any better because we never should have gone into Iraq. Unless the whole united nations went in and they voted against that. Just like we should have left Vietnam when the United Nations left.

 

[Oafman]

He was acting under jihad propaganda that should be removed from the internet along with porn, violence and hatred

If we remove hatred from the internet, CF is done for!

 

[joshua 1 9]

If we remove hatred from the internet, CF is done for!

If that is the price we pay to fight the war on terrorism then so be it. You can not get in the way of progress. You have to lead, follow or get out of the way. This is what made this country great, back when it was a great nation. The supreme court should have no problem shutting down the skeptics, infidels & scoffers along with the jihadist and all the other hate mongols. As well as most of the violence and the porn that we see on the internet.

 

[Oafman]

If a terrorist pledges allegiance to the ISIS they are in fact part of ISIS since that's all that is required for ISIS membership. If people miss that point they are going to miss the pattern. And if they miss the pattern they will be surprised every time one of these Islamic terror attacks happens.

From the OP article (added emphasis):

"This public oath is about the only requirement that the Islamic State imposes on followers who wish to carry out acts of terror in its name. In an annual speech, the terror group’s spokesman, Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, last month incited its supporters to carry out killings abroad during the holy month of Ramadan."
.

If we accept IS' definition we empower them. Personally, I give them almost zero 'credit' for this attack, seeing as they knew absolutely nothing about it beforehand.

 

[Oafman]

If that is the price we pay to fight the war on terrorism then so be it. You can not get in the way of progress. You have to lead, follow or get out of the way. This is what made this country great, back when it was a great nation. The supreme court should have no problem shutting down the skeptics, infidels & scoffers along with the jihadist and all the other hate mongols. As well as most of the violence and the porn that we see on the internet.

You won't stop terrorism by imposing restrictions on the internet. And in any case, it is not straightforward to ban things from the internet. Servers exist all over the world. And then there's the dark web

 

[Paulos23]

The man was confused and claimed support for two separate and at odds terrorist organizations several times. Because of this the FBI determined he was just talk. Even when he made the nine-one-one call and claimed ISIS he's then praised a bomber from another group that opposes ISIS.

He was more a angry and confused individual than a terrorist.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You won't stop terrorism by imposing restrictions on the internet.

People have to learn this stuff somewhere. Going into Pakinstan and Afganistan did a lot to put an end to terrorism in some parts of the world because they shut down the school system where people were learning how to be terrorists.

 

[brinny]

Source:
The New York Times (Jun 12, 2016)

He said he was.

'When someone shows you who they are believe them" ~Maya Angelou

 

[brinny]

If we remove hatred from the internet, CF is done for!

What hatred might you be speaking of, my friend?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

He was acting under jihad propaganda that should be removed from the internet along with porn, violence and hatred. If you can blame anyone for this tragedy it would be the United States Supreme Court and the Liberals that appointed them and the Liberals that approved their appointment to the court.

How can you sit there and blame your fellow Americans for this attack on our people? How can you blame anyone other than Omar Mateen for what Omar Mateen willingly did?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Yes, they benefit from this, whether they were involved in any way in planning it, or not.

They especially benefit if we give them 'credit' for it. If we describe it as an 'ISIS attack on America' etc. One paper ran the headline 'ISIS vs USA'. Put yourself, if you can, in the shoes of a semi-convinced Islamist, who hates America but isn't sure about Islamic State. Reading that, you'll be more inclined to think IS are serious and are achieving something, and more inclined to join them.

Our media have been IS' main recruitment outlet for a long time now. We play into their hands.

The media over-sensationalise everything and it's a darned shame. Just opens the door to terrible overreactions (like the Patriot Act) and gross over-exaggerations of the threat Islamic terrorism actually poses to us.

 

[TLK Valentine]

How can you sit there and blame your fellow Americans for this attack on our people? How can you blame anyone other than Omar Mateen for what Omar Mateen willingly did?

Because personal responsibility is so passe...

 

[FireDragon76]

ISIS is getting so desperate they are trying for a social media jihad.