Was Judas Iscariot saved?

[theseed]

Like theseed said, somebody HAD to betray Jesus. I guess

I'm not sure if I said this, but I do agree that some did, it was phrophesied in the OT and by Jesus. Have you ever noticed that Jesus was sold like Jospeh in Genesis for 30 peices of silver?

 

[Kaylynn]

Seed said: not that sinning makes one lose thier salvation."


Really so if I continue to sin I still get into the kingdom.??

Wow what bible did you interpret such distorted information.?

It seems you disagree with the whole theology of what Chrsitianity represents here.

So If I am saved, I can sin, and still have eternal life, I also dont have to follow the ten commandments and still I get into the kingdom.. Sounds like a trick Satan would use to twist the words of Our Good Lord...




Do you see how your onced saved always saved assured salvation gospel is distorted and twisted. You were taught to follow some verses out of the bible, but not the whole word of God. Teaching and professing to sin and still remain saved and go into the kingdom of God is a sin. If we sin and repent and we are truly sorry for that sin then we are forgiven .. But if we continue to sin then we are not really sorry so we did not repent.

To suggest that someone can continue a life of sin and still be saved is not only unbiblical it lacks common sense.




Judas was a devoted apostle to christ, then betrayed him. and Jesus knew and told him this. Why did not Jesus intercede with this free will of Judas.?



How could have Judas first of all been an elected choosen apostle of God who had faith in christ and believed in him ... ok.... grasp and absorb that. ... at this point he is saved because he had faith and believed.

So when he betrayed christ, he then became unsaved or was he never saved to begin with..... ?

Judas made ONE mistake with christ , he did not CONTINUE to sin. as you suggest is ok to do and we recieve the Kingdom regardless.

When Judas hung himself because he suffered so much sorrow for that sin, he then repented , So I am sure Jesus forgave him since he followed Christ he whole life and believed and did great deeds for christ. Judas however only made one mistake.

I am sure as the bible warns us all if we continue to sin and not follow Gods commandments we do not get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Why all the ifs and warnings in the bible. Why the ten commandments, do you think he instructed us to follow them for no reason or do you think he put them there knowing we could not obey them.


Angel

If you are truly a Christian, you should be convicted of sin. You should have the desire to please your heavenly Father, by obeying Him. So the question isn't whether you can be a Christian and habitually sin and still get into heaven....the question is, if you habitually sin and PROCLAIM to be a Christian...how genuine is your faith that you would purposefully do something that you know your heavenly father would not approve of?

 

[Kaylynn]

btw, I don't think Judas was ever saved. In the bible it shows how greedy Judas was. A lot of people in that day and age believed that Jesus had come to set up an earthly kingdom and to deliver them from the oppression of the romans. I think Judas walked with Jesus so he could have a special position in his kingdom...be a man of stature and importance. The bible repeatedly shows Judas' greed.

When Mary annointed Jesus feet with the expensive perfume. Judas was in charge of the treasurey and I'm sure taking a little on the side for himself...so of course he would want to sell the perfume for money. Then of course he betrayed Jesus...for a price. I think Judas finally realized that Jesus wasn't on earth to set up an earthly kingdom so he would never be getting some important place in his kingdom...so he got what He could from Him. He eventually did realize that He did wrong and tried to return the money to the officials who had paid him off in return for him handing over Jesus. But instead of going to God and asking for forgiveness and reaching out to Him to save him...he killed himself in shame....I think he was too proud to humble himself before God and admit that he did wrong and needed his forgiveness and salvation.

That's my opinion on it anyway...

 

[theseed]

I think he was too proud to humble himself before God and admit that he did wrong and needed his forgiveness and salvation.[/QUOTE] ]

I don't think it was because of pride. Often when people realize they have murdered somone, they fill quilty and kill themselves. Also, he realized the implication of hanging himself on a tree, knowing that it ment that he as accursed of God.

We read that he portrayed innocent blood. But this show me that he though he killed an innoncent man, not the messiah. But maybe we also know that he was possessed by Satan. The more that I read it now, the more I'm convince that he did not believe in Christ as Savior and that the writers of the NT thought so too.

 

[He put me back together]

Jesus said there was no one "good" but God :>)

Judas was known as the traitor from the beginning of the ministry of Jesus.
Jesus said that he was one that He would "loose"

The fact that Judas had any part in the ministry of Jesus does not point to his character or spiritual condition .

Remember this exchange?

**
*
Luk 9:49**
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

Luk 9:50**
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us.

It was the name of Jesus not the works or character of the apostles that brought the miracles.

. Judas did NOT repent to God for his sin, but only repented to himself only. (Matthew 27:3, KJV)

2 Corinthians 6:10 “For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation; but the sorrow of the world produces death.”

What we see is a man that was sorry for the consequences of his act and how they would affect him.

If Judas had truly repented to God , he would have had no regret or remorse. Salvation is a gift of a clear conscience

Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

But Judas DID have regret and he only felt bad to himself, not to God. If he had really gotten “saved” at that moment, he should have been joyful; but what did he do?

He committed suicide. He chose death, since all he had after betraying Jesus was the sinful conviction of an unbeliever. He was filled with the “sorrow of the world”

True repentance is a gift of God. Think about Essau

Hbr 12:17**
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected:for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

I think this is the best argument so far...but I haven't read the rest of the thread yet

 

[He put me back together]

About all this "had to" stuff--did man HAVE TO sin in the first place, because Christ was slain before the foundation of the world? Prophecies do not cause events; events cause prophecies. (By "prophecies" I'm speaking more of the Greek context--those prophecies which predict future events) Man wasn't forced to sin by God's knowledge or God's plan. He sinned, and God devised his plan to save man on this knowledge. This is a sign of the timelessness of God, not the futility of choice. A day is a thousand years, and a thousand years is a day. "How else could the prophecies be fulfilled?" is a statement of the immenence and truth of prophecies--a statement that God's word is true, sometimes, admittedly, that some things exist simply for a sign, and that the evil among men and devils can even be used as a pawn by God's word. "Friend, do what you came for" was not a command from Christ for Judas to betray him--it was not God who entered Judas, but Satan. Rather, it was a statement of "Don't toy with me. I know what you plan to do. Go do it."

 

[rnmomof7]

About all this "had to" stuff--did man HAVE TO sin in the first place, because Christ was slain before the foundation of the world?

Yes in a sense. It is obvious that God knew they were going to fail the test as He ordained the plan of salvation before the foundation of the world.

He could have changed the circumstances in the garden or changed the hearts of Adam and Eve, but He did neither of these things.

The fall like all things glorifies God. It reveals His holiness and His faithfulness to His words and His judgment, and in the end, because of the plan of salvation it shows His mercy .

Prophecies do not cause events; events cause prophecies. (By "prophecies" I'm speaking more of the Greek context--those prophecies which predict future events) Man wasn't forced to sin by God's knowledge or God's plan. He sinned, and God devised his plan to save man on this knowledge. This is a sign of the timelessness of God, not the futility of choice.

We agree that prophecies are not a result of an event , but the assuredness of the event by the ordinance of God. It is Him revealing to us His plan .

If the fall or any sin is outside the plan of God it would not happen because God would not allow it.

A day is a thousand years, and a thousand years is a day. "How else could the prophecies be fulfilled?" is a statement of the immenence and truth of prophecies--a statement that God's word is true, sometimes, admittedly, that some things exist simply for a sign, and that the evil among men and devils can even be used as a pawn by God's word. "Friend, do what you came for" was not a command from Christ for Judas to betray him--it was not God who entered Judas, but Satan. Rather, it was a statement of "Don't toy with me. I know what you plan to do. Go do it."

Judas was ordained to betray Jesus. Jesus calls him the son of perdition . He tells the father he has lost none except the one ordained to betray him.

Think about this quote.


Jhn 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him;

Who would have the power and authority to place the devil in a heart?

The devil can not do anything without the permission of God ..so perhaps we could look at jesus telling Judas to do what He planned to do..as God giving satan permission to act

 

[UberLutheran]

...but then, so did Peter.

And so did the other disciples during the time of Jesus' arrest up through the Crucifixion.

And if we get down and dirty about it -- all of us have betrayed Jesus at one time or another, even as "practicing Christians."

If we get REALLY honest -- there's a bit of Judas in all of us, because we're all capable of doing the expedient thing, instead of the honorable thing; and we're all capable of selling someone or something out for some cheesy, short-term good.

Notice, however, that Matthew 27:3-5 states: "Then Judas, who betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, "I have sinned in that I betrayed innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? You see to it." He threw down the pieces of silver in the sanctuary, and departed. He went away and hanged himself."

If we're honest, most of us have done things to other people, for some short-term gain, which blew up in our faces and caused us tremendous pain, even to the point of wanting to do ourselves in. "Satan" has entered into each of us at some time or another, even as we were professing Christians.

If Jesus is capable of forgiving us, He is certainly capable of forgiving Judas Iscariot.

 

[rnmomof7]

...but then, so did Peter.

And so did the other disciples during the time of Jesus' arrest up through the Crucifixion.

And if we get down and dirty about it -- all of us have betrayed Jesus at one time or another, even as "practicing Christians."

If we get REALLY honest -- there's a bit of Judas in all of us, because we're all capable of doing the expedient thing, instead of the honorable thing; and we're all capable of selling someone or something out for some cheesy, short-term good.

Notice, however, that Matthew 27:3-5 states: "Then Judas, who betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, "I have sinned in that I betrayed innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? You see to it." He threw down the pieces of silver in the sanctuary, and departed. He went away and hanged himself."

If we're honest, most of us have done things to other people, for some short-term gain, which blew up in our faces and caused us tremendous pain, even to the point of wanting to do ourselves in. "Satan" has entered into each of us at some time or another, even as we were professing Christians.

If Jesus is capable of forgiving us, He is certainly capable of forgiving Judas Iscariot.

Jesus never indicated any forgiveness toward the man that the Father ordained and that he permitted to betray Him


God not only saves He also condemns , that is His justice. If Judas had repented He would not have killed himself.
Judas was "sorry" after the nature of men, his act instead of bringing him power and riches killed Jesus. He was sorry that it did not work out as he had hope. but there is no indication of godly true repentance.True repentance is given by God..think about this scripture, it teaches us that the outward sign that men accept are not accepted by God
Hbr 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

[theseed]

I agree, if he knew who Christ really was, he would not have hung himself, unfortunately, if he had waited, he would a have seen the truth like the other Apostles.

 

[Chappie]

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
(Whole Chapter: John 17 In context: John 17:11-13)

 

[joevberry3]

I think he had believed in Christ at the beginning. After all he had too, he gave up his home, his friends, his family to follow Jesus. How many of you would give up all of that for something you didnt really believe in? I know I couldnt and i wouldnt and im sure most of you couldnt and wouldnt.
I believe when the Devil entered him and he betrayed Jesus, afterwards he realized what he had done---I think he felt that he couldnt come back to Jesus. I believe he wanted to repent, if not why throw that money down, then hang himself? Actually i think he did repent but felt in his heart there was no coming back after betraying Jesus in that way.

 

[rnmomof7]

I think he had believed in Christ at the beginning. After all he had too, he gave up his home, his friends, his family to follow Jesus. How many of you would give up all of that for something you didnt really believe in? I know I couldnt and i wouldnt and im sure most of you couldnt and wouldnt.
I believe when the Devil entered him and he betrayed Jesus, afterwards he realized what he had done---I think he felt that he couldnt come back to Jesus. I believe he wanted to repent, if not why throw that money down, then hang himself? Actually i think he did repent but felt in his heart there was no coming back after betraying Jesus in that way.

All "faith" is not equal .

It appears that Judas believed Jesus was the political Messiah that Israel was looking for . He saw himself as benefiting from that

It is speculated that it was never his intent that Jesus die, but that the arrest would force the hand of Jesus and cause him to become the saviour of Israel .

In other words he did not see Jesus as the son of God , but as an anticipated political saviour sent by God.

When Jesus was crucified he realized his plan had (in his mind ) failed .

So there was no great future for him. He returned the money out of guilt, but not Godly guilt , but rather human guilt and shame for making a bad decision

Judas was from the first known by Jesus as the one that would betray him (john6 )

Did he love Jesus or money and position and power?

Look at the exchange over Jesus being anointed before His death ...
There was no worship or honor displayed only greed .

 

[joevberry3]

All "faith" is not equal .

It appears that Judas believed Jesus was the political Messiah that Israel was looking for . He saw himself as benefiting from that

It is speculated that it was never his intent that Jesus die, but that the arrest would force the hand of Jesus and cause him to become the saviour of Israel .

In other words he did not see Jesus as the son of God , but as an anticipated political saviour sent by God.

When Jesus was crucified he realized his plan had (in his mind ) failed .

So there was no great future for him. He returned the money out of guilt, but not Godly guilt , but rather human guilt and shame for making a bad decision

Judas was from the first known by Jesus as the one that would betray him (john6 )

Did he love Jesus or money and position and power?

Look at the exchange over Jesus being anointed before His death ...
There was no worship or honor displayed only greed .

I agree all faith is not equal. But, Judas was NOT a devil to start with. I think at first he did have good intentions. But fell in love with greed(the same as some Christians today) Yeah, Jesus knew Judas would betray him but that doesnt mean he was MADE to betray him. I think that is mainly where me and you differ on opionions.
And actually the bible says he "confessed" that i am a sinner, he repented, then hung himself. I really believe and most of the people from seminary believes he committed suicide cause he felt he couldnt be forgiven.
God Bless

 

[rnmomof7]

I agree all faith is not equal. But, Judas was NOT a devil to start with. I think at first he did have good intentions. But fell in love with greed(the same as some Christians today) Yeah, Jesus knew Judas would betray him but that doesnt mean he was MADE to betray him.

**
* Jhn 6:70** Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jhn 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him;

Who would have the power and authority to place the devil into the heart of Judas?

Rev 17:17** For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

I think that is mainly where me and you differ on opionions.
And actually the bible says he "confessed" that i am a sinner, he repented, then hung himself. I really believe and most of the people from seminary believes he committed suicide cause he felt he couldnt be forgiven.
God Bless

Then he wasn't

Real repentance is a gift of God , it is not like the sorrow the world gives

2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Judas may have been ashamed before his friends , and sorry that the outcome was not what he had intended, he may have been sorry for that.
Ask any criminal if they are sorry for their crime. They will say yes. But in truth they are sorry that they got caught


Hbr 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: forhe found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

[joevberry3]

**
* Jhn 6:70** Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jhn 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him;

Who would have the power and authority to place the devil into the heart of Judas?

Rev 17:17** For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.





Then he wasn't

Real repentance is a gift of God , it is not like the sorrow the world gives

2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Judas may have been ashamed before his friends , and sorry that the outcome was not what he had intended, he may have been sorry for that.
Ask any criminal if they are sorry for their crime. They will say yes. But in truth they are sorry that they got caught


Hbr 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: forhe found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

I agree on one hand and then on the other i dont. I agree that criminal(Most) are ashamed they got caught. But how many criminals try to return what they stole after being caught?
Judas couldnt have been ashamed of being caught, cause what he did, he didnt do it in secret. Everybody knew who Judas was and what he did before Jesus's death.
When he confessed that he was a sinner and repented--I really believe he ddidnt feel the forgiveness that he wanted. I believe he knew there was no hope.
God Bless

 

[joevberry3]

Also remember Judas couldnt have been a devil in John 6:70, the devil didnt enter until John 13:2. So, how could he have been a devil in 6:70 when he didnt enter til later? I think Jesus was speaking of what the future held for Judas.
Once again i say, i do NOT believe Jesus chose a man to fill with his spirit, to preach, baptize, set captives free and cast out devils--that was a devil. Let me ask a crazy question--can you be baptized by a devil and it count?
Thanks
Joe

 

[rnmomof7]

I agree on one hand and then on the other i dont. I agree that criminal(Most) are ashamed they got caught. But how many criminals try to return what they stole after being caught?
Judas couldnt have been ashamed of being caught, cause what he did, he didnt do it in secret. Everybody knew who Judas was and what he did before Jesus's death.
When he confessed that he was a sinner and repented--I really believe he ddidnt feel the forgiveness that he wanted. I believe he knew there was no hope.
God Bless

He had revealed himself as the traitor. There would be no more "fellowship " with the disciples"

We do not decide truth on feelings. Forgiveness is not a matter of feelings..

So what he felt is irrelevant .

 

[rnmomof7]

Also remember Judas couldnt have been a devil in John 6:70, the devil didnt enter until John 13:2. So, how could he have been a devil in 6:70 when he didnt enter til later? I think Jesus was speaking of what the future held for Judas.
Once again i say, i do NOT believe Jesus chose a man to fill with his spirit, to preach, baptize, set captives free and cast out devils--that was a devil. Let me ask a crazy question--can you be baptized by a devil and it count?
Thanks
Joe

I believe the term devil is a general one that includes demons.
also he was called the son of perdition .
At the last supper it was Satan himself that entered Judas.

An interesting side note. Satan can do nothing without the permission of God.
Jesus gave him that permission.(do it quickly)

You make the error of believing that Judas performed any miracle himself ..those miracles were preformed IN THE NAME of Jesus . It was never about the apostles, it was always about the name of Jesus

It is not the baptizer it is the one in whose name one is baptized

Sinful men baptize all the time .

BTW the apostles were not filled with the Holy Spirit until Pentecost..and Judas was not there

 

[joevberry3]

I agree that it was the powers of Jesus that Judas did these things. But whens the last time you seen a lost person heal the sick, cast out devils, etc etc etc? And remember a devil CANT cast out another devil, Jesus himself made this clear.
Joe