Was Judas Iscariot saved?

[R.E.Taet]

Here is what we know about Judas:

• He had a part in Christ's ministry 7

• He was an apostle 7

• He had power over unclean spirits 1

• He had the power to heal 2

• He had the power to cast out demons 2

• He became a traitor 3

• He was a devil 4

• It was not until right before the last supper that he became possessed by Satan 5

• He had a share in the ministry 6

• He turned aside his ministry and apostleship 7

He was at one time not a traitor, but an apostle and sharer of the ministry with power over demons and the ability to heal. Then he became a traitor and a devil and was possessed by Satan. In the end he turned aside his share in the ministry and apostleship.


Given that I would say that at the start he was a follower of God, but in the end he turned aside and went to Hell.


1 Mat 10:1 Then having summoned His twelve disciples, He gave to them power over unclean [or, defiling] spirits so as to be casting them out and to be healing every disease and every malady.
2 Mar 3:15 and to be having power [or, authority] to be healing the diseases and to be casting out the demons.
3 Luk 6:16 Judas [the son; or, the brother] of James, and Judas Iscariot, who also became a traitor.
4 Joh 6:70 {Jesus} answered them, "_I_ chose you*, the twelve, did I not? And one of you* is a devil!"
5 Luk 22:3 Then Satan entered into Judas, the one being surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
6 Act 1:17 because he had been numbered with us and obtained [or, was chosen to have] the share in this ministry."
7 Act 1:25 to receive the share of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

 

[angeljan]

Seed said: not that sinning makes one lose thier salvation."


Really so if I continue to sin I still get into the kingdom.??

Wow what bible did you interpret such distorted information.?

It seems you disagree with the whole theology of what Chrsitianity represents here.

So If I am saved, I can sin, and still have eternal life, I also dont have to follow the ten commandments and still I get into the kingdom.. Sounds like a trick Satan would use to twist the words of Our Good Lord...




Do you see how your onced saved always saved assured salvation gospel is distorted and twisted. You were taught to follow some verses out of the bible, but not the whole word of God. Teaching and professing to sin and still remain saved and go into the kingdom of God is a sin. If we sin and repent and we are truly sorry for that sin then we are forgiven .. But if we continue to sin then we are not really sorry so we did not repent.

To suggest that someone can continue a life of sin and still be saved is not only unbiblical it lacks common sense.




Judas was a devoted apostle to christ, then betrayed him. and Jesus knew and told him this. Why did not Jesus intercede with this free will of Judas.?



How could have Judas first of all been an elected choosen apostle of God who had faith in christ and believed in him ... ok.... grasp and absorb that. ... at this point he is saved because he had faith and believed.

So when he betrayed christ, he then became unsaved or was he never saved to begin with..... ?

Judas made ONE mistake with christ , he did not CONTINUE to sin. as you suggest is ok to do and we recieve the Kingdom regardless.

When Judas hung himself because he suffered so much sorrow for that sin, he then repented , So I am sure Jesus forgave him since he followed Christ he whole life and believed and did great deeds for christ. Judas however only made one mistake.

I am sure as the bible warns us all if we continue to sin and not follow Gods commandments we do not get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Why all the ifs and warnings in the bible. Why the ten commandments, do you think he instructed us to follow them for no reason or do you think he put them there knowing we could not obey them.


Angel

 

[HeatherJay]

Seed said: not that sinning makes one lose thier salvation."


Really so if I continue to sin I still get into the kingdom.??

Wow what bible did you interpret such distorted information.?

It seems you disagree with the whole theology of what Chrsitianity represents here.

So If I am saved, I can sin, and still have eternal life, I also dont have to follow the ten commandments and still I get into the kingdom.. Sounds like a trick Satan would use to twist the words of Our Good Lord...




Do you see how your onced saved always saved assured salvation gospel is distorted and twisted. You were taught to follow some verses out of the bible, but not the whole word of God. Teaching and professing to sin and still remain saved and go into the kingdom of God is a sin. If we sin and repent and we are truly sorry for that sin then we are forgiven .. But if we continue to sin then we are not really sorry so we did not repent.

To suggest that someone can continue a life of sin and still be saved is not only unbiblical it lacks common sense.




Judas was a devoted apostle to christ, then betrayed him. and Jesus knew and told him this. Why did not Jesus intercede with this free will of Judas.?



How could have Judas first of all been an elected choosen apostle of God who had faith in christ and believed in him ... ok.... grasp and absorb that. ... at this point he is saved because he had faith and believed.

So when he betrayed christ, he then became unsaved or was he never saved to begin with..... ?

Judas made ONE mistake with christ , he did not CONTINUE to sin. as you suggest is ok to do and we recieve the Kingdom regardless.

When Judas hung himself because he suffered so much sorrow for that sin, he then repented , So I am sure Jesus forgave him since he followed Christ he whole life and believed and did great deeds for christ. Judas however only made one mistake.

I am sure as the bible warns us all if we continue to sin and not follow Gods commandments we do not get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Why all the ifs and warnings in the bible. Why the ten commandments, do you think he instructed us to follow them for no reason or do you think he put them there knowing we could not obey them.


Angel

You're coming very very close to accusing those who disagree with you of being less than Christian. That's against forum rules.

I believe that we should all do what we can to avoid sin and temptation. But we all fail. And I do agree that we should seek forgiveness. But we are covered by Grace, not by our works...and our salvation is not dependent on confession. You're basically saying that everytime we sin, we lose our salvation until we confess and repent. I disagree.

Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't confess...of course we should repent and seek forgiveness. But, for example, if a person commits a sin and a minute later is hit by a car and killed instantly, are you of the belief that because he did not confess and repent that he is lost? I don't believe that.

And your hostility is quite unnecessary. Please try to debate in a civil manner. Just because someone disagrees with you, that's no reason to call their beliefs distorted and twisted. Thanks in advance.

Love, Heather

 

[R.E.Taet]

But, for example, if a person commits a sin and a minute later is hit by a car and killed instantly, are you of the belief that because he did not confess and repent that he is lost? I don't believe that.

God has forgiven many of man's sins. David's adultry and murder didn't stop God from forgiving him.

But there is one sin that God does not forgive if you are currently commiting it. That is the sin that every unsaved person is commiting and until they stop they will be unsaved. The rebelion or complete denial of God, whether through ignorance or selfishness, is not something God that forgives. IMO that is the sin God considers to be the worst and does not forgive.

Thankfully "forgive" applies to the present state of man's soul, not the sum of his life. If you once commited the sin of rebelion, as did we all, you just need change your current state to become forgivable. Once forgivable God will pardon all that you do, up to the point where you return to your rebelion.

 

[dunlapr]

Acts 1
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Most reputable commentaries agree that this referes to Judas being lost.

 

[angeljan]

Heather,


The Worse false doctrine ever devised by satan is the Once saved always saved doctrine. Your hypothosis or example, above does not explain if this person with Faith produced good fruits and remained steadfast in faith. Did he follow the requirements of our God.? Did that person have a True changed Heart.


Dont you think God would require anyone claiming to have real Faith teach other Christians to follow his example and apply the ten commandments, rather than teaching others they dont apply ,and if you just believe you are saved regardless of being obedient. Born agian means a new changed heart in CHrist.

Why did Jesus give us the 10 commandments .??

If he knew they were impossible to keep, them then why would he require one to follow them.?.


Read the entire passage of Hebrews 10. Nothing could be more clear. Sinning in the face of Grace is WORSE than breaking the law of Moses, verses 28-29,

DO YOU understand why some churches NEVER touch these passages? WHY, if they do, it's only to explain them away and make you feel comfortable in your sin. IF the Gospel was preached in this manner, warning the people that persisting in willful sin is dire to the soul, the churches would be empty and the pastors poor. Better to let everyone 'THINK' they are saved and continue on in their delusion, then shine the light of truth into their lives that they might repent & be saved.

"Do you NOT know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God!" 1Cor6:9

"Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes & Pharisees, you will by no means enter the Kingdom of heaven." Matt5:20

NOTHING in scripture condones sinful behavior, or guarantees future sins are forgiven.


Angel

 

[theseed]

I suggest you read the gospel of JOhn Chapt 6:51



51: I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.



Joh:6:49: Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh:6:50: This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh:6:51: I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Joh:6:52: The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
Joh:6:53: Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh:6:54: Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath


Angel

You also find in John that Christ will not lose his sheep. I've read the entire bible, and I don't believe one can lose thier salvation.

 

[theseed]

I suggest you read the gospel of JOhn Chapt 6:51



51: I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.



Joh:6:49: Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh:6:50: This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh:6:51: I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Joh:6:52: The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
Joh:6:53: Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh:6:54: Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath


Angel

Look at it in context, his he is not being literal. He is sayng salvation come through him. I see nothing here that would support what you ascert, I don't what you are referring to.

Jesus the Bread of Life

25When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, "Rabbi, when did you get here?"
26Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."
28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
30So they asked him, "What miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'[3] "
32Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
34"Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread."
35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"
43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'[4] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[5] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

 

[theseed]

Seed said: not that sinning makes one lose thier salvation."


Really so if I continue to sin I still get into the kingdom.??

Wow what bible did you interpret such distorted information.?

It seems you disagree with the whole theology of what Chrsitianity represents here.

So If I am saved, I can sin, and still have eternal life, I also dont have to follow the ten commandments and still I get into the kingdom.. Sounds like a trick Satan would use to twist the words of Our Good Lord...

Actuallly does not, It's my understanding that God saves us from sin, not that we save ourselves by not sinning. Anyone is who is saved is secure, after all if we earn it, then we are not saved by grace. I find humorous, how you have ignored those verses I cited. If I could earn my salvation by not sinning, then I would have reason to boast. There would have been no reason for Christ to die. All sin must be paid for. And when Jesus died on the cross, he said "it is finished" which is a greek phrase meaing paid in full (greek business term). If a person is not saved, that is they have not believed in Christ,
Got to the Protestant/Reformed/Evengical forum and you will find many Christians who agree with my interpetation of the bible.

Ephesians 2

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

We live the Christian life because of God's power, he creates us to do good works, it is the Spirit that causes us to produce fruit. We are God's workmanship, our good works are not somthing we do because we want to be saved.

Romans 5


Peace and Joy

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[1] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[2] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

Faith through Christ justifies us, and brings us into grace. Grace is unmerited favor, so salvation is unmerited, unearned. So if my sin causes me to lose my salvation, then it was never by grace to begin with.

 

[theseed]

Heather,


The Worse false doctrine ever devised by satan is the Once saved always saved doctrine. Your hypothosis or example, above does not explain if this person with Faith produced good fruits and remained steadfast in faith. Did he follow the requirements of our God.? Did that person have a True changed Heart.


Dont you think God would require anyone claiming to have real Faith teach other Christians to follow his example and apply the ten commandments, rather than teaching others they dont apply ,and if you just believe you are saved regardless of being obedient. Born agian means a new changed heart in CHrist.

Why did Jesus give us the 10 commandments .??

If he knew they were impossible to keep, them then why would he require one to follow them.?.


Read the entire passage of Hebrews 10. Nothing could be more clear. Sinning in the face of Grace is WORSE than breaking the law of Moses, verses 28-29,

DO YOU understand why some churches NEVER touch these passages? WHY, if they do, it's only to explain them away and make you feel comfortable in your sin. IF the Gospel was preached in this manner, warning the people that persisting in willful sin is dire to the soul, the churches would be empty and the pastors poor. Better to let everyone 'THINK' they are saved and continue on in their delusion, then shine the light of truth into their lives that they might repent & be saved.

"Do you NOT know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God!" 1Cor6:9

"Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes & Pharisees, you will by no means enter the Kingdom of heaven." Matt5:20

NOTHING in scripture condones sinful behavior, or guarantees future sins are forgiven.


Angel

I see you feel very strong about this, and I disagree. I think earning one's salvation takes away from God's glory. This is a Satanic lie, that one can lose thier salvation. If you really want to debate this go to the PRE forum under Congration. If you don't then don't post here it here. Your derailing the thread from it's main topic.

 

[He put me back together]

Not necessarily. That's just a phrase. Job used the same phrase when going through his tribulations, and look what happened to him. I don't think we can stretch that one phrase to have bearing on Judas' salvation. I personally think God will have mercy on Judas since he was the poor sap who was chosen to betray Jesus and have all of Christendom hate him. No thanks to Dante either.

I suppose you're talking about Job chapter 3. This was a man speaking in anguish during a present time of pain...there are MANY men who say the same things about their lives. "It would be better if I was never born." Job was ignorant of his future. Jesus was not ignorant of his future or the future of Judas. The fact of the matter is, it WAS good for Job that he was born. But it wasn't good for Judas. The defense that "it would be better for him if he had not been born" only applies to a particular time of suffering in a person's life simply doesn't make sense. If a person is found in the kingdom, then this statement CANNOT ever accurately describe them. "It would be better for him if he had never been born" describes a man who will die the 2nd death. When spoken by Christ, this is the only thing it can mean.

 

[He put me back together]

The Bible mentions only one unforgivable sin...blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Judas was not guilty of that sin. I believe his soul is quite safe.

Love, Heather

This is true--but are blasphemers of the Holy Spirit the only ones seen in Gehenna?

 

[He put me back together]

In all respects, I truthfully believe that one's belief concerning once-saved-always-saved is quite irrelevant to Judas' salvation. To those who find this relevent, we do not know if Christ was killed and ressurected before or after Judas hanged himself. If before or after the crucifiction isn't relevant, we STILL don't know if Judas was "saved" --whatever that word means. John said that he was a thief, long before this betrayal business ever began--not that we do not all remain rapists, thieves, and murderers by the more popular OSAS creed(s)-- It seems to me that Judas was one of the many that Jesus preached to in the grave, though anyone who didn't live in the times of Noah is only theorized to have been listening. In short, OSAS doesn't support Judas being with us in the Kingdom, and Judas being with us in the kingdom doesn't support OSAS.

 

[angeljan]

Saved unsaved, who knows. !! Who could claim they have been judged.!

Grace saves us but Grace does not place us above the law or Gods commandments.

Seed,
Joh:6:50: This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.


Jesus is the bread and if any man does not partake in commuion of our Lord he does not get into the kingdom of Heaven.

At least with this great faith of yours try to show God you care and love him by showing effort and trying to obey the ten commandments.

Or they dont save us. Just Faith saves us so we can omit them.???

Or they do or they dont...

We are saved by grace , it is how we follow this grace Gods judges us.


Angel

 

[theseed]

Saved unsaved, who knows. !! Who could claim they have been judged.!

Grace saves us but Grace does not place us above the law or Gods commandments.

Seed,
Joh:6:50: This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.


Jesus is the bread and if any man does not partake in commuion of our Lord he does not get into the kingdom of Heaven.

At least with this great faith of yours try to show God you care and love him by showing effort and trying to obey the ten commandments.

Or they dont save us. Just Faith saves us so we can omit them.???

Or they do or they dont...

We are saved by grace , it is how we follow this grace Gods judges us.


Angel

No, as I said before, Read Romans 6-8, Paul ask us if we should continue to sin so that grace may abound, and followed it up with "God forbid" which is as strong as saying a cuss word in our English. So if we do sin grace abounds. Jesus said the flesh profits nothing in reference to that teaching and that his words are spirit and life.

Did you also miss the point where I said if we are saved we have good works? And the fruit of the Spirit in Galations 5.22-23? Or are you having fun saying that I'm teaching lawlesssness and undgodlyness? Do you keep all 613 commandments? If you don't then you, according to your theology must ask for absolution for all of them. This is the Law that Jesus fullfils for us and writes a new Law on our heart, because with a change in priesthood must also come a change in the Law, you will find this written in Hebrews. Sin is still sin--read the verses about fruits of the flesh in Galations 5 also.

If you continue to debate this, I will assume it is because you want to and I will quote your prost in another forum so it can get the proper attention that you seek. Because I don't want to debate this at all.

 

[theseed]

if you continue to debate this, I will assume it is because you want to and I will quote your prost in another forum so it can get the proper attention that you seek. Because I don't want to debate this at all.

I will put it in Soteriology

 

[HeatherJay]

You know, I have no clue how this thread even ended up talking about 'once saved, always saved' because I never once said anything about it until Angeljan brought it up in response to a post.

In fact, I do not quite believe the 'once saved, always saved' philosophy....but I also do not agree with your beliefs, Angeljan. But, it's all good. Play nice...and get back on topic before the thread gets closed. Thanks.

Love, Heather

 

[angeljan]

Truthquest,

You are debating if Judas was Saved, which has everything to do with OSAS theory .



you dont want to hear the answers or the truth in regard to ones faith and salvation.

Truthquest by the way there is only !0 commandments to follow not 613 as you have suggested above.

You are the one who said you dont believe in the whole bible and could someone help you.

For someone who dont believe in the whole word of God, they should not be interpreting Salvation and what is required,, or the OSAS theory.


You say you dont believe in the whole bible so I think you shoud stick to the half you understand or interpret.The gospels are suppose to be the Holy word inspired by God.

The idea or theme of the Bible is to follow the Basic rules .

Faith, Commandments, Heaven and Hell.
This is what christianity is based upon and has followed for thousands of years.

If you apply just the basics of scripture then the rest follow.
disputing what one verse claims and the other rejects, etc,. etc. is not going to reduce the main message to Protestants and catholics who OBEY and follow the word.

Again its one thing to hear the word of God , it is another to DO the word of God.




Angel

 

[angeljan]

The Seed,


With your response's to this debate , they should go under Carnal Christianity.

Since you also do not apply all of Gods words to your interpretations.

The idea or theme of the Bible is to follow the Basic rules .

Faith, Commandments, Heaven and Hell.
This is what christianity is based upon and has followed for thousands of years.

If you apply just the basics of scripture then the rest follow.
disputing what one verse claims and the other rejects, etc,. etc. is not going to reduce the main message to Protestants and catholics who OBEY and follow the word or the basic rules of christianity.

Its one thing to hear the word and another to at least try to obey it and teach others to do so.


Angel

 

[angeljan]

Heather,

You dont have to believe what a billion catholics worldwide believe, you also do not have to believe in what most mainstream protestants profess in regard to salvation through justification.

Believe what you like, its not up to me to convince you in regard to the correct interpretation of Gods words in the Bible. besides I am not your judge.

Like I said there are so many different sects and new age philosophies, it would be impossible to for most on here to understand and interpret most mainstream christian beliefs. '

Most christians protestant along with catholics believe in Faith, and commandment keeping.

Its just that most posters on this forum do not.

Angel