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Was Jesus omniscient?

Discussion in 'Historical Jesus' started by cubinity, Jun 12, 2010.

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  1. Maite Els

    Maite Els Member

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    "He knows everything" is not meant as all absolute everything.
    Jesus did not know the day of his second coming. Not knowing one things make him NOT knowing everything.

    Stop playing with words
     
  2. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Now you are wanting to reconstruct "he knows everything" to mean "he does not know everything". That's called a contradiction and you have created it.

    These are some of the biblical facts concerning Jesus' omniscience while on earth:
    Lewis & Demarest provide the biblical evidence from the Gospels [verses which I have given in square brackets - taken from Lewis & Demarest] that Jesus was omniscient while here on earth. The fact that he chose not to exercise this in relation to his second coming does not negate the fact that Jesus demonstrated his omniscience as the God/Man while on earth. These are the biblical facts.

    Oz

    Reference

    Lewis, G R & Demarest, B A 1990. Integrative theology, vol 2. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Academie Books (Zondervan Publishing House).
     
  3. Maite Els

    Maite Els Member

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    Jesus did not know the day of his second coming
    Jesus did not know what was given to him to drink at the cross.
    Jesus didnt know who was the person that touched him and got healed.
    Jesus didnt knot the arrest of John the baptist
    Jesus didnt know the dead of john the baptist
    Jesus didnt know of the death of Lazarus
    Jesus didnt know where lazarus body was.

    Way too many thing for somebody that knows everything.
    That's called a contradiction and you have created it.
     
  4. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    You used a red herring logical fallacy with this response to me. We can't have a rational discussion when you do this.

    Oz
     
  5. Maite Els

    Maite Els Member

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    The point you want we get distracted is that Jesus didnt know a lot of things makes him not knowing all. You are the one distracting as in Red Herring.

    Whe we read that Jesus knew all we have to undertans that it was an expresion. If you read the context you will see that Jesus didnt demostrate to know absolutely everything that can be known. He did demostrate having a superior knowledge a knowledge that makes unnecesary for some other telling him things.

    Please do not distrac us by Red Herring this treath.
     
  6. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Yes, indeed.
     
  7. Maite Els

    Maite Els Member

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    The point is.
    The NT is saying that Jesus was not omniscient. And the evidence is so clear that you have not any argument to present. but any way, you dont want to accept the truth.
     
  8. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Please go back to the content of what I wrote in #303 and your reply at #304. That's the red herring about which I am speaking, but you want to deflect again with another red herring logical fallacy.

    As I have already said: We cannot have a reasonable conversation when you do this.

    Oz
     
  9. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    We see Jesus' omniscience demonstrated while on earth in what we have revealed in the Gospels.

    Matthew 26:21-25, '21 And as they were eating, he said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” 22 And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, “Is it I, Lord?” 23 He answered, “He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” 25 Judas, who would betray him, answered, “Is it I, Rabbi?” He said to him, “You have said so.” (ESV).

    These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.

    Matthew 26: 31-35, '31 Then Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away because of me this night. For it is written, ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’ 32 But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee.” 33 Peter answered him, “Though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away.” 34 Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the cock crows, you will deny me three times.” 35 Peter said to him, “Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!” And all the disciples said the same (ESV).

    These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.

    Luke 5:21-22, '21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to question, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” 22 When Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answered them, “Why do you question in your hearts? (ESV).

    These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.

    Luke 6:7-8, '7 And the scribes and the Pharisees watched him, to see whether he would heal on the Sabbath, so that they might find a reason to accuse him. 8 But he knew their thoughts, and he said to the man with the withered hand, “Come and stand here.” And he rose and stood there' (ESV).

    These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.

    Luke 9:46-47, '46 An argument arose among them as to which of them was the greatest. 47 But Jesus, knowing the reasoning of their hearts, took a child and put him by his side' (ESV).

    These verses demonstrate Jesus' omniscience.

    Luke 11:17, 'But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls' (ESV).

    This verse demonstrates Jesus' omniscience.

    That there were times when Jesus' omniscience was deferred to another member of the Godhead is obvious from Jesus not knowing the time of his second coming. However, my understanding is that this is a function of omniscience in the Godhead. It is not to deny Jesus' omniscience while on earth.

    I will not have fullest understanding of how the Trinitarian God's omniscience functions until I'm in his presence. I wonder if that will be an issue then.:bow:

    Oz
     
  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Back in post #273 I said:

    I disagreed with you about your nattering over "omniscient" applied to the Father. The Son was not omniscient...but just as clearly, He knew what He needed to know when He needed to know it.

    So what's your problem?
     
  11. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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  12. Maite Els

    Maite Els Member

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    Those verses demostrate a knowledge at the level of any human prophet.
    No one demostrate the omniscience.
    But Jesus did not know many, very many things. That DO demostrate not omniscience.
    And do not go Red Herring againg as you always do.
     
  13. Maite Els

    Maite Els Member

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    He needed to know who did touch him and got healed. he relly needed to know. He ask, he look around, he insistingly tried to found out who it was. bau he didnt know what he really needed to know.

    that is one example of many. do you have a problem with that?
     
  14. Maite Els

    Maite Els Member

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  15. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT

    This thread is closed for review and clean up
     
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