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Was Jesus omniscient?

Discussion in 'Historical Jesus' started by cubinity, Jun 12, 2010.

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  1. cubinity

    cubinity jesus is; the rest is commentary.

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    I'm just curious because Jesus learns and finds things out in the Gospels, which doesn't seem like a conditional possibility for an omniscient.
     
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  2. genifer

    genifer Regular Member

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    What a great question. I was thinking about this the other day, actually. Or recently anyway. Now there are times in the gospels that suggest that he could have been, Ive wondered that, knowing peoples' thoughts and such (thinking of what the disciples were arguing about on the road to wherever), but at the same time, He was fully human in His life on earth so, me thinks that He was just SO 'in tune' (for a lack of a better way of putting it) with His Father that the Father let Him in on a thing or two. Im kinda putting my money on that one, bc of the fact that Jesus left so much of Himself behind, gave up so much of Himself to be human. It didnt make Him any less divine, bc thats impossible, but all the 'powers' (ykwim!), He left those, Im thinking...

    Thats my two penneth worth;)
     
  3. genifer

    genifer Regular Member

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    Dh just brought up a good point. The fact that He HAD the power, is a definate, but that He limited Himself and he could have used all that He had before He came as a helpless babe.
     
  4. Hairy Tic

    Hairy Tic Well-Known Member

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    The gospels don't suggest that - Luke shows Him asking questions, as does John 11; to name no other places.

    I think the reason for the idea is the notion that if God is all-knowing, & if Jesus is a Divine Person, He also must be all-knowing. But - if He is all-knowing on earth, is He credibly human ?

    IMO, limitation in His knowledge is part of the "self-humbling" of Philippians 2.
     
  5. RipleyCountyChristian

    RipleyCountyChristian The guy Chuck Norris tries to live up to :)

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    This is a good question...never though about it...God is all knowing and Jesus is a part of GOd...so you woul dassume he was too, but the Gospels make it seem like he had to learn and grow in knowledge just like every other person. Which leads to to believe that since Jesus was man, he was sent down with the normal brain functioning of any person, he had to learn.
     
  6. Allieso

    Allieso Newbie

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    maybe many of us ever thought of this question .very nice
    we respect him very much he knew many things that we don't know but he was not born with these knowledge .he also learned this in the later daily life he is a god but also a man so there must me something that he doesn't know
     
  7. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Ripley,
    Mark 13:32 states:
    Jesus didn’t know the time of his second coming. How do we explain this when we know that Jesus is a member of the Trinitarian God?


    Daniel Wallace has written an excellent article about Jesus’ omniscience that I would recommend, “When did Jesus know?” Wallace concludes his article with this summary:
    So when Jesus was functioning as a man, he was not omniscient.

    Sincerely, Spencer
     
  8. cubinity

    cubinity jesus is; the rest is commentary.

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    Thank you so much for sharing this.

    Reading it has warmed my heart and given me new insight into our Savior.
     
  9. RipleyCountyChristian

    RipleyCountyChristian The guy Chuck Norris tries to live up to :)

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    I agree with cubinity, that was a great post Spencer. It makes a lot of sense.
     
  10. Jpark

    Jpark Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus had insight into the spiritual world (Luke 10:18; 22:31-32; Mark 9:29; Daniel 10:13), then how could He not know the day and hour of His own coming (Matt. 24:36)?

    Because He was concealing His divinity (Phil. 2:7 but emptied Himself...).

    Consider John 17:3. Jesus identifies knowing God the Father as eternal life and identifies the Father as the only true God, but in 1 John 1:2 and 5:20, John identifies Jesus as eternal life.

    1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ This is the true God and eternal life.

    Remember, God is Jesus (God became man while remaining as God) and therefore Jesus is God. It's not the other way around. Man did not become God.

    Concerning Mark 9:29 and Daniel 10:13, Jesus reveals that prayer and fasting of a righteous person invites God's intervention in spiritual battles. In Dan. 10:13, God sends Michael the archangel to assist the angel. The result, the chief prince of Persia lost and Persia in the physical world fell to Greece.

    Also consider Mark 5. In other instances, Jesus always casts out demons without difficulty, even the demon that His disciples couldn't cast out. But here, it isn't until after He learns the demon's name that the demon is terrified. Also, Mark 5:8 shows that Jesus had been repeatedly commanding the demon to leave.

    What was this?

    This was indeed a demonstration, an example for believers... how to cast out a demon without His blood and His Spirit.

    Jesus was 100% divine while He was in the flesh (so He had Omnipotence, Omniscience, and possibly Omnipresence). He merely concealed His divinity.
     
  11. cubinity

    cubinity jesus is; the rest is commentary.

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    Oh, he was just playing a marvelous trick on everyone.

    Not to worry, folks. This deception was not actually a lie.

    I believe it was Nixon that said, "If the President does it, it is not a crime!"

    Yeah. I think I'll stick with the idea of an honest Jesus.

    But, thank you for your input.
     
  12. Goinheix

    Goinheix Well-Known Member

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    There is a long list of things that Jesus did not know. For example, at the cross, a soldier give him to drink and he HAS TO taste it in orther to know what it was and them refuse it. That is just one of many examples.

    At the other hand, Jesus seems to know things. I say "seems" because It was not like this. But even in the interpretation that he did has some extraordinary knowledge or understanding; even in such case, many prophets also has similar extraordinary knowledge.

    The point we can not lose is: omnisciense is knowing ALL. If Jesus did know more things that regular men, that is not omniscience. If Jesus did not know one single thing, that means that he knew less than ALL. Knowing almost all is not knowing all.

    Jesus was not omniscient.

    I go further. I hope you understand my words and dont change it meaning. Jesus - in my opinion - did not know he was the Chris, the Son of God. Jesus has faith in being Christ, the Son of God. But technically, he did not know 100% sure, out of any doubt. Jesus lived and died by faith not by knowing.

    He (Jesus) did recieve from childhood plenty information that makes have a rock strong faith about who he was. He had no memory of being with the Father creating the Universe. But he has faith, he was certain of what he didint know.

    The faith Jesus had concerning the Christ was stronger and more firm than the knowledge I am having of being typing in my computer. I know 99.99% I am typing, He has faith 100.1% of being Christ.
     
  13. Goinheix

    Goinheix Well-Known Member

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    As I says: does not matter how many things Jesus semms to know; He didint know other many and that is NOT knowing ALL.

    That case of knowing the thouhts sound like some telephaty of some kind. Is not. All of us can know what the other is thinking, by knowing him, by interpreting his face and words. Jesus has a deep knowledge of human hart and soul. That story did not enfatice the X-men like sperpowers of Jesus, but how well he know us. That is why he is our highpriest interceding for us, becose he know us netter than a mother know his child.
     
  14. Goinheix

    Goinheix Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. He (Jesus) had (at the time of his life in Earth) any power more than we (christians) have today. He did empty out totally before entering the world. His "power" was his faith in the Father. He has to live as we are supposed to live. With no superpowers.

    I know that this is offending many of you. But He said that we will do greater thing than those he did. Because we have the Hole Spirit and the same Father.

    Pastor prefer to preach of a powerfull Jesus, Jesus God, allmighty God. That is a picture of Jesus that we will like and love. But the Jesus in the Bible is a man with no atractive at all. That is the Bible.

    Today, Christ is back in his natural place as God, with all Gods power and etc. but not while in Earth. Those 30 some years He continued to be God, but God emtied out of any divine atribut.

    Sorry.
     
  15. livesINchrist

    livesINchrist Newbie

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    no, he couldnt be omniscient, he was a man. i doubt he even died at all
     
  16. Goinheix

    Goinheix Well-Known Member

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    concerning his fisical body, I think we do not have evidence (in 4 Gospels; the NT or the OT) that Jesus did medically died. Probably all his vital fuctions did seaced, but his organs, tisues and cells probably did not died. I compare to a dead man from wich are exctracted organs to be transplanted. Those organs are not dead by alive after the body has seaced to live (as a body)

    But he did died in a spiritual way of talking.
     
  17. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Goinheix,
    Please present your evidence. "I think" is not evidence. I await your evidence that goes beyond your assertions and opinions.

    Oz
     
  18. Goinheix

    Goinheix Well-Known Member

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    I think; just I think. I have not evidence, I can not give you any verse to support what I think. That is why I said "I think", because I am not sure my self of being right or wrong.

    Anyhow, this present thread is about Jesus being omnicient or not. We shall respect the treath and keep focused. If you want to discus Jesus death, open an specific treath and I will tell you what make me think that Jesus body never did died.
     
  19. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    If you want to present evidence about the nature of Christ's death, please rely on the primary source evidence and not from your imagination - "I think".

    If you have no evidence about the nature of Christ's death, we have nothing to discuss. Your assertions prove nothing.

    Oz
     
  20. cubinity

    cubinity jesus is; the rest is commentary.

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    Come on, Oz. The guy has been up front since he started that he is here sharing his thoughts in hopes of nothing more than having a friendly discussion, and all you've done is goaded him for evidence.

    If you don't want to discuss anything with him, then don't reply to his posts. But, do you really think its fruitful to talk to him just to tell him you don't want to talk to him?

    I personally like what he has to say, and have been interestedly following his developing thoughts on the subject. I am glad he feels comfortable sharing his personal thoughts and ideas, and I want him to continue.
     
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