Was it fair to put Adam and Eve to the test?

[now faith]

Do you realize Job said “it may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts”? I also checked several versions in english and spanish and they all mean Job offered sacrifices to purify them (as it was normal back then) and also IN CASE they sinned.

I’ve always thought Job was more of a way of God showing the devil what a real servant is, something satan didn't know how to be since he tried to steal God’s glory in heaven. It wasn't easy for Job and it became a really hard test but at the end God restored him. I love it when it says the children of God went before Him and between them there was satan. I often wonder if Jesus and Lucifer were brothers, you know, like Issac and Ishmael, Jacob and Esau, but that’s another topic.

Anyway, can you tell me what exactly did I say that made you write me that answer?

Not Hardly, Jesus is God not brother of Satan.
This is a Mormon teaching.
If God were to prove somthing to Satan, this would mean Satan would have the power to tempt God.

You can find the reason for it all at the end of the Book.

Job 41: 29. Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. 30. Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire. 31. He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. 32. He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary. 33. Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. 34. He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

It was Job in his intervention for his sons, that placed the authority to forgive sin with in Jobs ability.
Jobs pride caused the headge to be lifted not God.

 

[Jair Crawford]

I believe there is much more than meets the eye when it comes to the account in the garden and the fruit of the tree.

Or should I say, fruit of the trees?

We always focus on the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, probably partly because the garden narrative focuses on it as well. BUT, there is another tree. What is the significance of it?

Think about it, what if they ate from the Tree of Life first?

Could the Tree of Life represent eternal life? And the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represent the potential to sin? In this case having both trees in the garden represents the free will of man.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Could the Tree of Life represent eternal life?

Perhaps it is the Way to Life. What it 'represents' to people could be many different things.

And the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represent the potential to sin?

Whoever partakes of it sins. With or without potential.

In this case having both trees in the garden represents the free will of man.

In some ways, certainly possible. Again, what people think or choose for them to represent could be any number of different things.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It was Job in his intervention for his sons, that placed the authority to forgive sin with in Jobs ability.
Jobs pride caused the headge to be lifted not God.

It doesn't appear on the spot like either of these statements is in Harmony with Scripture or Truth.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I often wonder if Jesus

..... if He listens to your prayers and saved you ?
Love hopes for the best,
but Jesus is UNcreated , eternal, echad (one) with the Father in heaven through all time and outside of time forever with no end.

Everyone else you know or mentioned or ever meet is created, including the enemy and all the angels.

Comparing Jesus in His Glory with Yahweh to any created being/creature
is very close if not actually idolatry and maybe blaspheme.

 

[parousia70]

I'm more interested in why the tree of life was there in the garden and Why did God command Adam and Eve to freely eat from IT before the fall?

Isn't the conventional wisdom that they were created perfect and immortal before the fall?
What on earth do perfect immortal beings need to eat from the tree of life for?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm more interested in why the tree of life was there in the garden and Why did God command Adam and Eve to freely eat from IT before the fall?

Isn't the conventional wisdom that they were created perfect and immortal before the fall?
What on earth do perfect immortal beings need to eat from the tree of life for?

What? This is not from Scripture.

 

[parousia70]

What? This is not from Scripture.

Which part? The part about them being created perfect and immortal or the part about the tree?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Which part? ..

The underlined parts.

I'm more interested in why the tree of life was there in the garden and Why did God command Adam and Eve to freely eat from IT before the fall?

Isn't the conventional wisdom that they were created perfect and immortal before the fall?
What on earth do perfect immortal beings need to eat from the tree of life for?

 

[parousia70]

The underlined parts.

The tree of life being there is most certainly scriptural:
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

And God Commanding Adam to freely eat from it before the fall is also 100% scriptural:
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;

Show me the scripture that EXCLUDES the tree of Life from the above Command of God in Genesis 2:16

As for the rest, I said its "the conventional wisdom" that Adam was created immortal...I never claimed it was scriptural.. in fact I happen to disagree with said conventional wisdom, and I believe Genesis 2:16 supports my disagreement.

I did make the mistake in including Eve and I apologize for that...she actually hadn't been "ribbed up" at that point yet..

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The tree of life being there is most certainly scriptural

Did I underline the tree of life, or a longer phrase that is posted ?

And God Commanding Adam to freely eat from it before the fall is also 100% scriptural:
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;

See the difference ?

 

[Job3315]

..... if He listens to your prayers and saved you ?
Love hopes for the best,
but Jesus is UNcreated , eternal, echad (one) with the Father in heaven through all time and outside of time forever with no end.

Everyone else you know or mentioned or ever meet is created, including the enemy and all the angels.

Comparing Jesus in His Glory with Yahweh to any created being/creature
is very close if not actually idolatry and maybe blaspheme.

Have you ever “wondered”? I love that I have the freedom to do so and even ask God about it as I do not hold any confusion from Him. As I said, “I often wonder” because the Bible says “For now we see in a mirror, dimly...”. I am always aware I can be wrong as I am still waiting on His revelation about many things.

Thanks for your input, though.

 

[Job3315]

..... if He listens to your prayers and saved you ?

This is not what I said I was wondering about by the way.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Have you ever “wondered”? I love that I have the freedom to do so and even ask God about it as I do not hold any confusion from Him.

Certainly - very much also in wonder and in awe !
But never wonder about things HIS WORD rebukes , never "stand in the way of sinners" (considering their way of life or thoughts) , never participate in thoughts or actions that lead to or that come from sin or temptation or evil.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is not what I said I was wondering about by the way.

Correct. It was a thought inspired in spirit, to help clarify what kind of wondering is good and proper and true, etc..... and to test the spirit, to see the purpose/ direction....

 

[1213]

…
Was it fair for Adam and Eve to be put to the test?

Before consuming fruit from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, isn't it fair to say that Adam and Eve didn't have a concept of what Evil was? Was it fair of God to allow the serpent to come to Eve and put ideas into her head that would have otherwise never been there?
...
...After that test, Adam and Eve were sinful in the eyes of the Lord. Why did they not die?

I think it was not unfair. If person is reasonable, and don’t know something, he should ask. Adam and Eve didn’t want to ask from God, Eve wanted to become like God and that is why she didn’t want to listen what God had said. God had warned what will happen, if they eat, so it as fair. They had enough knowledge.

Perhaps they didn’t die instantly fully, because they were still in paradise, in conditions that are not same as here. Or perhaps they didn’t see God directly. It is also possible that they saw God’s image, Jesus, which is not entirely same as the one and only true God, according to the Bible.

On the other hand, they lost life with God, and were expelled to this death, so in a way, they died on that day.


…(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation….
Colossians 1:14-16

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Even the famous, or 'infamous' MOB might understand this - (when someone 'dies').

If a godfather told anyone 'your dead', they were as good as dead, regardless how long later it actually was done.

Adam and Chavah died when Yahweh said they died. Was there unseen consequences also - not seen by the physical or natural eyes? Certainly. The spiritual unseen is more important than what can be seen or heard in the world.

 

[parousia70]

Did I underline the tree of life, or a longer phrase that is posted ?

You sure are being cryptic.
I prefer being direct. Would you care to try?

See the difference ?

Nope.
God Commanded Adam to FREELY eat from the tree of life or don't... it was up to Adam. I have never waivered or suggested anything else, it was a COMMAND to Freely eat. Not sure what your beef is with me about that, as I can not find where we disagree, except when you first claimed that our (now discovered to be shared) belief about it was not in the Bible...Glad you seem to have come around on that at least.

Now, why do you believe God commanded Adam to freely eat from the tree of Life before the fall if he wished?

Just how many bites of it's fruit do you suppose it would take to secure "eternal life" form that tree?
Does one have to keep eating from it or is one bite sufficient for all eternity?

Would Adam have lived forever if He never at from the tree of knowledge but also NEVER ate from the tree of life?
I say no. Even in his pre-fall state, Adam NEEDED the tree of life to sustain him.
What say you?
You think Adam could have survived forever without munching on that tree?

 

[now faith]

It doesn't appear on the spot like either of these statements is in Harmony with Scripture or Truth.

How So?
Do you believe God was tempted by Satan to torment a perfect man?
If so this makes Job equal to Jesus Christ.
All men have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.

Job 1: 5. And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

13. And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: 14. And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: 15. And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
You have the destruction fall on Job in ch. 13, what was taking place at that time?

God asks a question:

Job 40: 6. Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 7. Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 8. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Notice God said Judgement.

41 describes a Dragon, it is a metaphor.
We have to ask why did Satan fall?
Pride, He thought He should be worshiped like God.

Job 41: 34. He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

I am willing to keep a open mind, if you are willing to explain the context of Job, along with the Spiritual value.

 

[now faith]

Even the famous, or 'infamous' MOB might understand this - (when someone 'dies').

If a godfather told anyone 'your dead', they were as good as dead, regardless how long later it actually was done.

Adam and Chavah died when Yahweh said they died. Was there unseen consequences also - not seen by the physical or natural eyes? Certainly. The spiritual unseen is more important than what can be seen or heard in the world.

Why did God cover their shame by ripping the skins off of animals?
Why was Ables offering accepted by God and Cains was not?

Please explain the meaning of this verse:

Hebrews 11: 4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Yes sin brings death, yet from the beginning God allowed a means of temporary atonement.
Yes death was still part of the consequences of sin.
Otherwise God would have killed Adam and Eve the moment they sinned.
But God was already the atonement, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World.