Was it fair to put Adam and Eve to the test?

[HypnoToad]

Yes, the “crafty beast” or devil had already fallen, already evil.

Angels having sinned has nothing to do with sin on earth. Nothing in the Bible about angels being earth's first population.

Cain feared people out away from his tribe,

"People out away from his tribe"? The Bible never says that. Cain just mentions "whoever finds me". There's nothing there indicating Cain was not simply afraid of family members coming after him.

 

[Colter]

Angels having sinned has nothing to do with sin on earth. Nothing in the Bible about angels being earth's first population.


"People out away from his tribe"? The Bible never says that. Cain just mentions "whoever finds me". There's nothing there indicating Cain was not simply afraid of family members coming after him.

The devil had fallen and was on the earth having a conversation with Eve.

The narrative says Cain went to the Land of Nod where he lay with his wife, he feared people out away from his own people. God agrees.

The Genesis story is quite young and the earth, and life on it, is quite old. When the Hebrew priest were creating the creation story, they left bits in from the original story that they appropriated from Mesopotamian lore.

 

[Colter]

"Did God really say"? Yea, he did say, before Adam and Eve came down from heaven and were materialized, the full grown, educated adults were fully informed about what to expect and their mandate.

 

[Deadietrickwood]

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Psalm 51:5

 

[Deadietrickwood]

So does this mean that Adam and Eve were not as sinful or depraved as Moses was after they sinned? Because when God found them after they hid they didn't die right away physically. In fact, it took them 900ish years to die naturally and even their sons Cain and Abel got to see God without dying.

They died spiritually.
James 1:12-15 gives you the answer.

 

[Deadietrickwood]

So did God create us imperfect or did we become imperfect?

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Psalm 51:5

 

[Colter]

That's whats confusing. Why would they (Adam and Eve) be able to see God and be able to handle it while Moses could not?

Keep in mind that the authors of the scripture were human, they were writing long after the events happened so there is a lot of inconsistency in the claims.

 

[HypnoToad]

The devil had fallen and was on the earth having a conversation with Eve.

So?

The narrative says Cain went to the Land of Nod where he lay with his wife, he feared people out away from his own people. God agrees.

Again, nope. The narrative NEVER says anything about "people out away from his own".

The Genesis story is quite young and the earth, and life on it, is quite old. When the Hebrew priest were creating the creation story, they left bits in from the original story that they appropriated from Mesopotamian lore.
...
Keep in mind that the authors of the scripture were human, they were writing long after the events happened so there is a lot of inconsistency in the claims.

Well, for me, the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God, so we're never going to reach any kind of agreement here if the above is your view of Scripture.

before Adam and Eve came down from heaven and were materialized,

That's nowhere in the Bible.

 

[Strong in Him]

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Psalm 51:5

Which means, what?

 

[Colter]

So?

Satan had already fallen, his fall brought sin to the world. Eve and then Adams sin was the 2nd default. But biblical idolatry prevents one from being intellectually honest about what the narrative says compared to the common assumptions of inconsistent doctrines.

Again, nope. The narrative NEVER says anything about "people out away from his own".

It does but bible worship prevents people from being intellectually honest about the inconsistencies of the written word. God is the Living Word, the written word is filtered through the mind of man and therefore influenced by the times.

"When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Outside of the bias of the doctrine that God wrote what the Hebrews wrote about themselves, the narrative is clear that Cain feared people out in the world away from his own. God even agrees and puts a "mark" on Cain. Each time the scriptures were edited and redacted, the editors left parts of what was there before.

We can also see the bias in a distant age concerning the evolutionary transition from hunter to herder and tiller of the soil. There has always been friction between the herders and the tillers of the soil. This human bias is reflected in the narrative.

Well, for me, the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God, so we're never going to reach any kind of agreement here if the above is your view of Scripture.

For me the scriptures were written by holy men and are imperfect as we should expect man to be. They reflect the evolution of religious thought and human superstation over the ages in recation to the doings of God. The doctrine of the inspiration of the scripture was used to reject Jesus as well as enlightened truth teachers before him. Today the doctrine of the inspiration of the scripture keeps contemporary man in a bubble of stunted ignorance.


That's nowhere in the Bible.[/QUOTE]

 

[HypnoToad]

Satan had already fallen, his fall brought sin to the world.

The Bible says otherwise.
Romans 5:12 - "So then, just as sin entered the world through one man"

But biblical idolatry prevents one from being intellectually honest about what the narrative says compared to the common assumptions of inconsistent doctrines.

Unsubstantiated claim.

It does but bible worship prevents people from being intellectually honest about the inconsistencies of the written word.

Unsubstantiated claim.

"When thou tillest ... after the name of his son, Enoch.

Outside of the bias of the doctrine that God wrote what the Hebrews wrote about themselves, the narrative is clear that Cain feared people out in the world away from his own.

He just says "anyone who finds me". Nothing saying he's not simply referring to family members coming after him, nothing about these supposed other people, you are reading that into the text.

Each time the scriptures were edited and redacted, the editors left parts of what was there before.

Unsubstantiated claim.

We can also see the bias in a distant age concerning the evolutionary transition from hunter to herder and tiller of the soil. There has always been friction between the herders and the tillers of the soil. This human bias is reflected in the narrative.

Irrelevant.

The doctrine of the inspiration of the scripture was used to reject Jesus as well as enlightened truth teachers before him.

You're judging a philosophy by those who abuse it. Invalid argument.

Today the doctrine of the inspiration of the scripture keeps contemporary man in a bubble of stunted ignorance.

Unsubstantiated claim.

 

[Colter]

The Bible says otherwise.
Romans 5:12 - "So then, just as sin entered the world through one man"


Unsubstantiated claim.


Unsubstantiated claim.


He just says "anyone who finds me". Nothing saying he's not simply referring to family members coming after him, nothing about these supposed other people, you are reading that into the text.


Unsubstantiated claim.


Irrelevant.


You're judging a philosophy by those who abuse it. Invalid argument.


Unsubstantiated claim.

The Bible says multiple, conflicting things about the same events, Bible worshipers will pick one and pretend they won the argument.

Who fooled the whole world?

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Genesis 3
3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Satan had already fallen, sin was already in the world as the devil successfully corrupted Eve.

 

[HypnoToad]

The Bible says multiple, conflicting things about the same events, Bible worshipers will pick one and pretend they won the argument.

Who fooled the whole world?

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Genesis 3
3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Satan had already fallen, sin was already in the world as the devil successfully corrupted Eve.

Yeah, cuz Revelation is a completely literal work.

 

[Hillsage]

Was it fair for Adam and Eve to be put to the test?

Of course it was fair. How else would they have come to know their need for a savior and the "life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." A world in which they were planted by God?

If Adam and Eve didn't yet know what evil was, would they have even considered disobeying God on their own had the serpent not come to them?

If they were created without the 'sin nature' to begin with, why did they ever fall into disobedience to begin with?

Isn't that a bit like putting a toddler in charge of a nation and saying "Okay you know nothing of ruling or the complexities of right vs wrong or good decisions vs. bad decisions but you have to be in charge and make all the decisions around here now."?

Such is the omniscient plan of God with which 'ever studying' carnal minded thinking 'can never come to a knowledge of the truth' about.

2TI 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Another question that comes to mind is why did they not die then when God came looking for them? God hides Himself from us and never reveals Himself entirely (He showed only the back of Himself to Moses) because if He did we would surely die due to our sinful nature. After that test, Adam and Eve were sinful in the eyes of the Lord. Why did they not die?

They did die. Why don't people die today when they sin? They do. They just don't do it immediately in the 24 hour day of their first sin. But no one has made it past 'the Lord's day' without dying.

2PE 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Not even Methuselah made it to the end of the day.


EDIT; If Adam and Eve WERE created w/o sin nature....not WEREN'T

 

[Colter]

Yeah, cuz Revelation is a completely literal work.

Your pride won’t allow you to acknowledge what’s obvious to others.

 

[HypnoToad]

Your pride won’t allow you to acknowledge what’s obvious to others.

Another unsubstantiated claim. Odd how much of your position seems to rest on those.

 

[Colter]

Another unsubstantiated claim. Odd how much of your position seems to rest on those.

You never answered the question.

 

[HypnoToad]

You never answered the question.

What question? Who fooled the world? Sure, Satan did that. But MAN still brought sin into the world, otherwise Scripture lies. You may embrace that notion; I, however, do not.

 

[Colter]

What question? Who fooled the world? Sure, Satan did that. But MAN still brought sin into the world, otherwise Scripture lies. You may embrace that notion; I, however, do not.

Satan was already fallen, sin was in the world before Eve chose it herself, but the Hebrew priest didn't think the story through very well and made no claim of divine inspiration when they wrote it.

Its not that all of their revisions were lies, some was just a matter of ignorance about evolution and pre-Adamic history that we dig up in the stratified layers of the earth.

 

[HypnoToad]

Satan was already fallen,

Yes, the Bible supports that much.

sin was in the world before Eve chose it herself,

Not supported by the Bible.

but the Hebrew priest didn't think the story through very well

I don't see any issues.

and made no claim of divine inspiration when they wrote it.
Its not that all of their revisions were lies, some was just a matter of ignorance about evolution and pre-Adamic history that we dig up in the stratified layers of the earth.

Yeah, we already know you reject divine inspiration.