Was God's Kingdom already established in 70 AD ? - Preterism views

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna; on the verses about the body: Adam was made a living soul, in a body of flesh and blood. He was of the earth, earthy: the last Adam was made a Living Spirit, in a body of flesh and bone, with blood of the New Man creation body -not of this cursed clay.

Earth is 'adamah', blood is 'dam'. Adam was made from the dust of this present adamah, and was dam. He was literally 'living earth', 'earth blood'.

Sin and the corruption of death and decay entered the entire kingdom that Adam was given to rule over by his sin.

The Last Adam was from above: from the throne of grace and Mercy the Life Giving Spirit of Christ came to inhabit the prepared body of New Creation Man flesh and bone -and he certainly had blood, but not 'dam', not of this 'adamah', and He certainly 'is come', present tense, in flesh; but not of this creation, as the Word says.
John says it is the spirit of antichrist that denies that Jesus is come in flesh -a present tense action that John used after He was ascended.
It is as the Son of Man that He is returning to reign over this present creation, in Person, in His glorified Son of Man body that He is incarnate in, died in, rose in, ascended in, and is glorified in, and is returning in, to reign.



1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Hidden Manna; on the verses about the body: Adam was made a living soul, in a body of flesh and blood. He was of the earth, earthy: the last Adam was made a Living Spirit, in a body of flesh and bone, with blood of the New Man creation body -not of this cursed clay.

Earth is 'adamah', blood is 'dam'. Adam was made from the dust of this present adamah, and was dam. He was literally 'living earth', 'earth blood'.

Sin and the corruption of death and decay entered the entire kingdom that Adam was given to rule over by his sin.

The Last Adam was from above: from the throne of grace and Mercy the Life Giving Spirit of Christ came to inhabit the prepared body of New Creation Man flesh and bone -and he certainly had blood, but not 'dam', not of this 'adamah', and He certainly 'is come', present tense, in flesh; but not of this creation, as the Word says.
John says it is the spirit of antichrist that denies that Jesus is come in flesh -a present tense action that John used after He was ascended.
It is as the Son of Man that He is returning to reign over this present creation, in Person, in His glorified Son of Man body that He is incarnate in, died in, rose in, ascended in, and is glorified in, and is returning in, to reign.



1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

What did Jesus mean then when he said to them:

Matthew 23:39
"for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed [is] He who comes in the name of the LORD!' "

Do you think Jesus may have been talking about seeing with the eyes of understanding as other texts of scripture refer seeing as?

John 14:19
" A little while longer and the world will see Me no more , but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.

John 16:10
"of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more ;

Here we can plainly see that they had know n Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know [Him thus] no longer.

2 Cor 5:16
Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have know n Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know [Him thus] no longer.

It that not because Jesus Christ was made a life-giving Spirit who has and now still does indwell believers filled with His Spirit.

His physical appearance as in the same physical body He had I believe will never happen according to scripture because He is and will forever be a life-giving Spirit. He appeared spiritually back in AD 70 as He foretold, a future physical appearing is non scriptural in the light of truth that has been revealed since the second century Christians fail to see a spiritual coming in the glory of the Father when Jerusalem was destroyed.

Paul's Change in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55
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Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory. "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" (1 Corinthians 15:51-55)

In order to understand the change that Paul says the (first century saints) would go through (we shall all be changed) We as in Paul looked forward to be changed also. We today must understand the change according to the Bible and Paul's understanding, and not the traditional idea's of the change today.

What was this great change that the living would go through? Lest start at the beginning of the Bible. In Genesis 2:15-17 God told man concerning the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil "in the day you eat thereof you will surely die." Man and woman ate of the fruit. Did they die that day? Amazingly, most people will say "No!" because Adam and Eve did not die physically after they ate the forbidden fruit. But this is not the whole story.

And Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden the day they ate the fruit. Thus, Adam and Eve died spiritually because they were cast out of the presence of God. If Adam and Eve did not die the day they ate then Satan told the truth and God lied! God said you will die in the day you eat, Satan said you will not surely die, Genesis 3:1ff. Who told the truth to Adam and Eve? Unless one can find Adam and Eve physically dead in Genesis 2-3, then the death they died was spiritual and not physical. Death in this context means separation, sin-death, (i.e. separation from God caused by sin); not physical death.

In Romans 5:20 we read Paul said the law was added, "that sin might abound." This does not mean that God gave the Old Law to make men sin more — man had no problem doing that on his own as we see in Genesis. But God gave the Old Law to make sin appear exceedingly sinful, to make man acutely aware of his sinfulness.

The New Testament writers likened life under the Old Covenant to death, because all those under the Law were under the curse, Gal. 3:10. Paul called the Old Testament the "ministration of death" because all it did was condemn; it could not justify, Romans 8:1-3. In chapter 7 of the same book Paul said: "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me" vs. 9-11.

Can Paul be speaking of physical death? If so, then he was saying he was a physical dead man who was still physically writing, apparently not. Yet he said he had died. Paul's "dying" is to be equated with the old covenant. This is in the present tense. This is the law that Paul labored under created a "body of death." (Romans. 7:24) My point is that Paul calls that Old Law the Ministration of Death because it could not deliver from sin. Paul had learned that he could not earn righteousness in all of his efforts under the Law and all attempt to do so were actually death.

It is evident therefore that when Paul uses the term "the law" in 1 Corinthians 15 that his consistent use of the term should guide our understanding. Paul has not changed subjects. Is it possible to define the Old Covenant as the strength of sin? Now if the Old Law was a (ministration of death), what would deliverance change from that death be? Would it be life from the dead? Allowing the Bible to define the change as deliverance from sin, (separation from God) the Old Covenant of Death to the New Covenant of Life, in Christ we understand Paul's New Testament language of change in (1 Corinthians 15:51-55) 1 Pet. 1:23, would that not be a change from corruptibility to incorruptibility?

The apostle Paul says those who were turning to Christ from that Old Covenant were in fact "being changed or transformed (present tense) into the same image (greek eikona) from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Corinthians 3:18) What image were they being transformed into? It was the glory of the Lord! The change or transition from the Old Covenant to the New was a transformation into the image of Christ

Paul is plainly dealing with the same issue as Jesus, life and death. Paul strongly believed that the transformation from death, under the Old Covenant to life in Christ was a change from death to life. The subject of this change was the two covenant aeons." (ages,)

Paul has not changed subjects; he is still focused on his singular desire "the change or resurrection from, literally "out from the dead." Our modern view today denies the relationship of the Old Covenant to death and life — spiritual life. It fails to take into consideration that man stands before God in relationship to Covenant. To live under a Ministration of Death was to be a body of death, Rom. 7:24; 8:8-10. (separation from God) To be delivered from that ministration of death was to be changed into a new ministration or covenant of life. This is the Biblical concept of the change in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55.

To put it another way, since the Old Law was the Ministration of Death and the New Law of Christ is the Law of Life, the change became a reality with the full establishment of Christ's New Covenant. The first century saints were in a "already but not yet" aspect to of the change. This meant that there was a time of transition between the Old Covenant of the Law and the New Covenant a time when those coming out from that Old Law were coming into life.

When that Old Covenant of Death was completely taken away, this is called the resurrection. This is the Biblical concept of resurrection. "Christ is the end of the law to those who believe," Rom. 10:4. But the Law would pass when fulfilled and the Hebrew writer says it was at that time growing old and was ready to vanish away, Hebrews 8:13. To Paul and his readers this was a futuristic element of the change. As we have seen earlier, the Biblical definition of life and death, in the context is covenants and Jesus' redemptive work, from death caused by sin, i.e. separation from God.

Since Paul's context for the living is change, in (1 Corinthians 15:51-55) that change is life forever in the very presence God under the new covenant.
__________________

Many teach these earthly bodies will be turn into something that cannot die. However in Isaiah 65 concerning the New Heaven and Earth people still die and sinners are accursed. Just like today.
The change is life that is put in our vessels (bodies) so that we can take hold of eternal life.

Here is a verse that can help explain what the scripture is referring to from the Old Testament.

Isa 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Isa 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

Life was found in Jesus.

Also the tears from the Law were taken away.

When they in Jerusalem came from Law to grace. (Glory to Glory).
They went from death to life.

The temple Killed, brought pain, tears, death, sorrow, etc:

Acts 2 Was the new covenant that brought life, joy, peace, salvation, etc:

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna,
Jesus is the Life Giving Spirit in a fully human New Man creation human being body.
Did you read the Scripture that says that Adam was made a living soul, the Last Adam was made a 'Life Giving Spirit'?
Adam [the race of Adam] is in a body of human flesh, though a living soul.
Jesus Christ is in a body of New Creation human Being flesh, though He is the Living Spirit, YHWH of hosts, Himself, who is come forever to dwell in that human being New Creation flesh, which is the Israel human, brother to the dead Adam human, who pays the ransom for the lost inheritance of his brother and marries the barren widow of the 'dead' (as son of God) brother.

All in Adam, unregenerate, will exist forever, but in the lake of fire in his resurrected unregenerated body.

Israel will exist forever in His New Man Firstborn body of New Creation human being flesh; and YHWH of hosts is that Firstborn, in that prepared human being body, who came to inhabit that New Creation human being body which was prepared in the womb of the virgin for His habitation -forever.
He is come in flesh, and to deny that is to be of the same spirit of antichrist, says John.
He is gone to heaven in His body of human flesh -the Israel flesh- where He is seated until His enemies are made His footstool, and He is returning to take possession of His purchase, and we who are born from above are in His One Spirit, just as we came into being in Adam, the one spirit that is dead as son of God.

Salvation is of the Jews. The oracles of these things were entrusted to the Jews, and the teaching of all that He has done and will do is in the living oracles.

Jesus is the Life giving Spirit who is YHWH of hosts, second Person, from everlasting, who is come in fully human being flesh as the New Man.
We are joined to that One Spirit, the New Man, by His Spirit of adoption, but we do not see him in His flesh until He comes to rapture us ="laqach" us =harpazo us, as He promised, which is when He gives us our "holy garments" =our regenerated bodies made in His image in which we will be glorified with the Presence of glory, for the priesthood, so that we may go into the Holy Presence of glory in the temple in heaven, where we have access now in that one Spirit: but we do not see His face because we are in the Adam flesh.

When we put on the holy garments of our priesthood =our regenerated bodies, we shall go in to the Presence and remain there for the entire week of consecration as priests, with Him, while the great tribulation goes on, on earth.


We are born one spirit in Adam, and we did not see our father, the first Adam, for he is dead. We are born One Spirit in the New Man, and we do not see our Firstborn until He comes to take us in the "laqach" to His temple in heaven in our New Clothes =our adoption bodies made in His New Man image.
Leviticus 8 teaches of the consecration week of the priests.
The oracles of God teach of all these things.

Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Rom 3:1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

We have not entered into His kingdom -His kingdom is in us, but we must put on the adoption bodies to enter into His kingdom -the Adam body is unfit to enter into the kingdom of God as it is defiled, and we must put it off to be clothed in the image of the New Man.

2 Peter 1:
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


You do err, on the New Heavens and the New Earth, for the millennial Sabbath is the foreshadowing of the eternal Kingdom, but in the millennial kingdom those Blessed of the LORD who enter it do marry and are given in marriage and die -but after the thousand years are finished, and the devil is let loose and judged with all the wicked, the LORD regenerates the heavens and the earth, this same creation will be melted and regenerated and in that New Heavens and New earth there will be no more death for any one and all who are in Christ will never marry nor shall they be given in marriage, for the sons of God will be harvested from this present creation that He seeks as His house in which to dwell forever.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Baptized from Moses into Christ

The resurrection of the dead had to do with the Old Covenant saints being resurrected into Jesus Christ and the New Heaven and Earth in a post mortem state. We who have faith also live with them in the New Heaven and Earth even though we do not physically see them. That does not mean we cannot see them or Jesus in a Spirit form if God so chooses to reveal anything. I just wanted to make that clear.

I will attempt to show that the resurrection from the dead according to Romans 8:23 was a corporate one and not a personal one that we believers in Christ shall experience at post mortem.

1 Corinthians 10

Old Testament Examples

Do All to God’s Glory
1Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

Here we have an example of two baptisms in the cloud and in the sea. I believe they foreshadowed water baptism by the sea and in the Holy Spirit by the cloud. They were baptized into Moses, which foreshadowed being baptized into Christ.


Romans 6:3,4 speaks of being resurrected from the dead spiritually and that could by faith experience resurrected life after water baptism. However after the Old Covenant system was destroyed in A.D. 70 all the Old Testament saints would join them in a corporate resurrection into the New Heaven and Earth with Jesus Christ reigning in His Kingdom that is without observation from the natural eye.

Romans 6
2Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Luke 17:20
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation ;

Romans 8
From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory, which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.


The redemption of the body spoken of in Romans 8:23 was from the body of sin and death that the old covenant brought through the law then in A.D. 70 when the old system was destroyed the saints at that time were redeemed from the body of Moses into the glorified body of Jesus Christ.

This redemption from the body was a corporate redemption not a personal one. It was from the body of Moses of the Old Covenant into the resurrected body of Jesus Christ in which all true believers are a part of.

Jesus is now glorified in the true believers. This is what they hoped for and this is what we now are to look back to and know that we also have been redeemed from the body of sin and death.

1 Corinthians 10
3all ate the same spiritual food, 4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

In A.D. 70 when Jesus came in the clouds of Judgment against Jerusalem He used the heathen armies of the world through Rome the superpower nation at that time of the end, of the Old Covenant age. Just like in the times of Moses when their bodies were scattered in the wilderness, the nation of Israel was scattered into the earth as a results of the judgment Jesus foretold from the Book of Daniel in Luke 21:20-24

Luke 21

The Destruction of Jerusalem
(1)20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things, which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

1 Corinthians 10
6Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” 8Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.


Now note above that it is very clear that where it says, upon whom the ends of the ages have come, it is clear that it was speaking to them and not us 2,000 years later.

In the Old Covenant they were baptized into Moses, but in the new we are baptized into Christ. The manifestation of the Sons of God occur when the Old system ended, at the then known world or age, when all the dead of the Old Covenant saints were resurrected from the body of Moses into the glorified body of Christ.

Body of Moses was in the old heaven and earth or age. After the old age ended in A.D. 70 the new age of the new heaven and earth began and the glorified body of Christ was the manifestation of the Sons of God of which all true believers are a part of today.

A child could understand this. It takes someone who has been taught from the traditional teachings of men to mess things up as what happened after A.D. 70. Before that the thought that Christ would return to the first century Christians was the main view and what they believed. The main problem today is that some people read the scriptures as if they are living in the first century. We have to read it as it was written to them back then and then we should look at history in the light of all scripture been fulfilled when the sign of the coming of the Lord appeared when Jerusalem and the Old Covenant age came to an end.

Because Jesus came as He said He would, as a thief in the night, He came and those who saw with the eyes of understanding knew what was going on. But man in his carnal state could not see this and therefore came about the futuristic view that is so dominate in the world today.

I challenge anyone today to be as part of a Gideon’s army and stand against the flow of traditional teaching and stand for the truth. How much better would the world be today if we did not have a majority hyper-futuristic view which denies that Jesus has been since AD 70 the anointed King of kings and Lord of lords. They still think Satan is the god of this world.

It is the nature of Christ coming in the clouds that was spiritual not physical as the Creedalist have insisted being the truth, that has been the source of division and great embarassment to the body of Christ. What makes the creeds wrong is that timing has been missed and pasted off into a future that will never have a physical fulfillment as they expect no matter how hard they try to twist the scripture in their desperate attempt to prove Jesus a true prophet. Preterism has the right answers to prove Jesus has been faithful and has kept His word, but the interpretation of the Creeds only make Him out to look like He does not keep His word for they forever cast His promises into the future.

It has been in my observation that Preterist do not deny the creeds, just the timing and nature of the events that the early Church Fathers after the first century had missed not seeing that they already occurred in the spiritual realm. Further study on what preterist believe will open the eyes of understanding into what did take place in the first century and as expected, God kept His word. We may not have all the answers but we have enough to convince the wise that when Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed in A.D. 70 that the rest of the things spoken of did have there fulfillment in and around that time.

Why did Jesus tell Thomas blessed are those who believe without seeing. How would that apply to people after Jesus never appeared physically again for almost 2000 years and counting?

2000 years is a very long time in bible prophetic events for something to happen. I strongly believe the mass majority of Christians have missed something very special throughout history and because the cat is out of the bag concerning this, God’s blessing will go to those who see the truth and the rest will be left behind to wander in their wilderness of doubt as a Neo- Thomasaean.

The question that remains in the heart of every Christian is: are we to make the creeds as a standard to condemn people as heretics though the creeds were written by carnal man who missed the nature of Christ’s coming many years later from a different generation apart from the first century Church or are we to believe in the grace of God to those who adhere to the words of Christ?

Mark 8
38For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

 

[buddy mack]

Hi, I'm a newbie at CF - so I hope I'm not messin' where I shouldn't be messin'.......but this is a subject I would like to discuss...so without further ado....


I started to post this in the eschatology forum but was informed that this view is unorthodox and not allowed to be discussed in the Christian Only forums. It should only be discussed here in the Discussion & Debate > Unorthodox Theology section.


I have been a traditional Christian with a confused view of Revelation for the last umpteen years. When I read the Book of Revelation I saw one thing, but my church was telling me another. But I figured they knew what they were talking about. Recently, however, I have studied the Bible more indepth and have come to the conclusion that I was probably right to begin with.

My views, after further study, are that God's Kingdom has already been established. Jesus Christ was the first to rise out of the dead. Jesus was, literally, the "first resurrection." This fact, well attested by the writings of the New Testament, forms the basis for understanding Revelation 20:5-6:

"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power" (Revelation 20:5-6)

In Matthew 24, there is a great tribulation (persecution) of the saints which is followed immediately by the coming of Christ, which causes the heavens & earth to be shaken and all the tribes of the earth to mourn (Matt. 24:30). In 2 Thess. 1:6-10, we see the same scenario. The saints were being persecuted. Christ would come and give them relief (AD 66), and at the same time give tribulation to their persecutors. We are talking about two different phases of the tribulation, with Christ’s return in the middle (the first against the saints in AD 62 - 66, and the second against their persecutors in AD 66-70). Both passages (in their contexts) deal with both phases.

I believe the Millennial view falls into the same trap that the Jews fell into - that is that Christ would come to establish his kingdom on and reign on the earth.

Jesus Christ returned in AD 70 with great fanfare. The destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was an event “with much fanfare.” Josephus, a Jewish priest, mentions some loud voices and trumpet sounds being heard, as well as angelic armies being visible in the sky over Judea at the time of the Jewish revolt (AD 66-70). Jews today still commemorate it in some fashion in almost every joyous occasion they celebrate (the shattered goblet at Jewish weddings, and a special fast day every year in August (Tisha b'Av) are two ways in which they still remember the destruction). Rabbi Davis (from White Plains NY), in his opening remarks of his (1978?) lecture on “Post-Biblical Judaism,” commented that he would begin the study of post-Biblical Judaism with “the end.” Then he said, he would begin with AD 70., because AD 70 was “the end of Biblical Judaism” and the beginning of rabbinic or Talmudic Judaism. Josephus, a Jewish priest and one of the ten Jewish generals who started the war with Rome in 66 A.D., gives his eyewitness account of that gruesome judgment which Jesus said was, “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.” (Matt. 24:21) A few days later Jesus (at His trial) said the High Priest & the Sanhedrin, “shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Matt. 27:64) Josephus, Tacitus, Eusebius and the Talmud all record the FACT that God’s presence was perceived at that awesome destruction. They even record that angelic armies were seen in the clouds.

Believe that God's words and Jesus' words are literally true in this situation.

The point of this post is to point out that many religions have twisted the words of the Bible to suit their own purposes. We are, to some degree, formed by tradition. It is difficult and painful to believe that our beliefs could be mistaken. But if we are ever to find the truth - we must explore all religions to extrapolate the truths, which I believe are found in the beliefs they hold most dear. What I mean by that is this: Some believe in pre-tribulation, their whole religion is founded on that. We should examine this belief based on the conclusion that this is an area that convinced them so completely that there must be some truth to it. The same is true for Martin Luther, who staked his very life on the fact that we are saved by God's grace, and not our works. Various religions have been born based on the profoundly held convictions of their founders. All these founders could be considered 'specialists'. They have discovered a secret and based a religion on it because the Catholic Church was reluctant to change. Traditionalists have a terrible time accepting change.

Now, you could apply this theory to those who believe in the Rapture theory - but you must also verify it against the Bible.

Jesus said, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come” (Matt. 24:14). The good news had been preached to all the world by the time the book of Romans and the book of Colossians were written in the first century. (Romans 10:18) “Their voice (the voice of those preaching the good news) has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world”. (Col. 1:23) “This...gospel...has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven”. And shortly after the good news was preached in the whole world in the first century, the end of the Old Testament world came in fiery judgment in A.D. 70, at the destruction of Christ’s enemies.

Thus the end of Biblical Judaism. Historical records support the tale of the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Now just like 'God's will - will be done' - I have another absolute. Jesus says this in Matthew 16:28: "Truly I say to you, there are some who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

What does this mean? I can think of only two questions at this point. Is it literal in the sense that the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 fulfilled this statement. Or is it true in the sense that Jesus' believers would see Jesus' kingdom after they themselves were dead and resurrected?

Traditionalists will rush to say - what about this and what about that - but they must face the possibility that Jesus actually meant what he said.

Now, this may seem a bit confusing to some, and repulsive to others, so I'll end this post here and wait to see if this is of interest to anyone.

Seeking God with all my heart, all my soul, all my mind, and all my strength....
Snashin

for sure many thing written about the prophesy of the return of Christ and his kindom can be seen as already happened, but many things remain to be seen. i believe we just don't know the time of Christ return or when his kingdom will be brought forth.

 

[Hidden Manna]

for sure many thing written about the prophesy of the return of Christ and his kindom can be seen as already happened, but many things remain to be seen. i believe we just don't know the time of Christ return or when his kingdom will be brought forth.

It all happened in AD 70, nothing else needs to be fulfilled in scripture. I know it's hard to believe but it's true. It took me some time to see how it all fit together according to scripture but believe me it is there but not to any mans preconceived ideas about how end-times will happen because it all happened in the first century. Somethings were literal and other things happened in the spiritual realm which is why so many have missed it. I missed it for thirty years before finding what full preterism was about and how it all fitted together.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

.”

It's all in the oracles -
Abra H am received the promise of the Spirit -not the adoption of the body.
Abraham had to wait in hades for the atonement that brought the New Birth in Spirit

Jacob received the promise of the adoption of the body, in the renaming of him by YHWH of hosts, Himself, with His Israel name, the name of the New Man.

We do receive the adoption by the Spirit, but we have to wait for the adoption body, the Israel body, and all will receive it together, at the first resurrection.

It's all in the oracles given to Israel, His namesake.
We all get the adoption bodies together, the dead in Christ and the living Saints, at the "laqach" of the Assembly, when we are called to assemble by the two trumpets trumping twice, as Numbers 10:1-7 teaches the oracle of.

We are called to assemble at the door of assembly, in heaven, where we are "laqach" up, together with the resurrected dead in Christ, gathered together to Him at the door, and we enter in -and remain there with the Presence of glory for the week of our consecration as priests, for then we will have put onn our holy garments, the New Man body, and we will never go out of the temple again, for we never take our holy garments off.
It's all in the oracles. To learn about His plan one must learn His oracles.

Leviticus 8 teaches about the consecration as priests.
The types and shadows of the plan of adoption is all in the oracles.
Isaiah 26 teaches us about the entrance into the doors on high at the resurrection and the call of all His living people to 'come..enter into your rooms and shut your doors about you until the 'seven years of tribulation is finished', which is described in ISaiah 27, and is when He restores all the nation of ISrael for the millennial reign.

 

[Snashin]

To the heretics in the hall;

I have been censored twice now for posting what I believe to be Christian views. Once was for speaking of preterism in the orthodox section, and once for giving a link to a Christian web site that discussed the very topic the thread was about. Apparently both are not deemed christian by christianforums.com.

What gives? The administrator wouldn't answer my protest other than to say this IS a christian forum.

Is there another area here where you can discuss freely? Or is it not Christian to debate Christianity? I believe in testing and debating everything in the Bible. What's wrong with that?

I post on an evolution forum with hopes of bringing people to Christ - and they don't like me there either.

Is there no place for me to lay my head? Not looking for sympathy, just a nice coffee shop.

Here's my statement to the administrators and their response:

quote by Snashin

I don't understand. The topic is a debate about the trinity - isn't the whole thread in violation then?
How is anyone suppposed to get anything straight if you won't allow people to talk about it. I thought the Unorthodox section was put there for just this purpose.
If you believe that Jesus is your Lord and Savior - there is nothing that can snatch you away from Him. The purpose of the debates is to strengthen the faith, not weaken it. Editing a post for this reason only leads people to distrust CF, and to wonder about the issue that was edited.
If a person believed in Preterism, believed that the Trinity wasn't real - you are forbidding them to discuss it. So they will just leave - what does this solve? If this is false, then the truth will be revealed, no?
There must be some pretty powerful forces behind this plug in the free flow of information.
Your reply would be appreciated,

Quote by Administrator (shall remain nameless)

There IS a pretty powerful force behind the rules of the forum that is why it is called [size=+1]CHRISTIAN FORUMS.

[/size]

Thoughts anyone?

Thank you,
Snashin

 

[Hidden Manna]

Leviticus 8 teaches about the consecration as priests.
The types and shadows of the plan of adoption is all in the oracles.
Isaiah 26 teaches us about the entrance into the doors on high at the resurrection and the call of all His living people to 'come..enter into your rooms and shut your doors about you until the 'seven years of tribulation is finished', which is described in ISaiah 27, and is when He restores all the nation of ISrael for the millennial reign.

There you go again twisting scripture to fit your view. Nowhere is there ever mentioned a seven year tribulation in Isaiah 27 or in Daniel, Matt.24, Revelation, etc. No not even Daniel 9:20-27's last week.

Jerusalem’s Great Tribulation

There is no doubt at all that the destruction of the Jews in Jerusalem was the Great Tribulation come down from God. (Lamentations 4:9-12; Ezekiel 5:5-17; Luke 21:20-23) You might also point out that the Bible says those were the days of vengeance, that all things, which are written, may be fulfilled.

I am taking just several versions of the translations of the New Testament for this one verse from Luke 21:22, to indicate exactly what this verse does mean, as viewed by more that just one translator or group of translators.

Greek Interlinear: “for days of avenging these are, that may be accomplished all things that have been written.”

Today’s English Version: “For these are ‘The Days of Punishment,’ to make come true all that the Scripture say.”

Jerusalem Bible. “For this is the time of vengeance when all that scripture says must be fulfilled.”

Phillips Modern English: “For these are the days of vengeance, when all that the scripture have said will come true.”

New English Bible: “because this is the time of retribution, when all that stands written is to be be fulfilled.

Revised Standard Version: “for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.”

I could go on and on, but you can see the plain evident meaning of this verse. By the time Jerusalem was destroyed ALL scripture would be fulfilled ever that about the great tribulation in the Old Testament and New Testament.

Also Jesus had said, “I am come to send FIRE on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?” (Luke 12:49). This was not to be literal fire, but the fire of His wrath and justice, and a change of religious systems. In Lamentations 2:3 it says,.. he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire devoureth round about.” This too was the fire of God’s great tribulation upon the Jews.

You might also want to point out that the Jews in Hitler day were NOT the Jews who came against Christ and his church. Only the Jews in the first century fit that bill. And it was only upon them the great tribulation was to come. In fact Jesus said during the day of “abomination of desolation there will be great tribulation (such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time no, nor ever shall be) (Matthew 24:15-21)

It looks like our futurist brothers have a big, big problem. Every Christian scholars agrees the “abomination of desolation” were during the days leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem. Well Jesus said (they were the days) of the great tribulation since the beginning of the world and ever again will there ever be.
So the Jews who died by the hands of Hitler were NOT in the great tribulation. The dispensationalists and others do wrong to make tribulation be a stated period of time in our future.

The Jewish world came tumbling down in A.D. 70. The Jewish nation was decimated. The outward symbols of the Old covenant, the ritualistic elements of the old religious system, the holy place (including the land, the city and the Temple) were completely destroyed.

Nothing like this had ever happened to the Jewish people. Their world had ended. And it took all of this to show to them how wrong they had been in what they had done to Jesus Christ and then to His followers.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (Matthew 24:29) Note several things here also. First, Jesus is talking about the tribulation of “THOSE DAYS” (That is, of the very days during which the Jews were undergoing this terrible tribulation from A.D 67-70). “Those days” definitely determines the time in which is under discussion.

Which means of course, that He is not talking about some “tribulation” during a later course. Second, what He was talking about was to happen “IMMEDIATELY” after the tribulation of those days.” The word “immediately” is from the Greek word eutheos which means “at once, or soon, as soon as, forthwith, shortly, straight way.” There is another big problem. It certainly would not portray a time frame of over 2,000 years or so later.


Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Mat 10:36 And a man’s foes [shall be] they of his own household.

These passages could not be a more accurate description of the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. One only has to read the Bible to see this is so. The book of Acts, as well as the epistles speak of intense persecution coming against the church.

At first the early believers faced two classes of enemies. They were the unbelieving Jews and the Judaizers. The unbelieving Jews rejected the Messiah outright. Unbelieving zealots such as Saul brought great tribulation to the church. The Judaizers embraced Christ at first, but said that it was necessary to keep the Old Covenant to be saved. Thus, they had one foot in the Old Covenant and one foot in the New. These two groups did everything from organizing boycotts against Christians who would not confess that Caesar was lord to killing them outright.

It was this divide between those who refused to leave the Old Covenant and those who embraced the New that caused son to turn against father etc. This fits the first century setting perfectly.

As the time of the destruction of Jerusalem approached persecution against the church intensified greatly. A third persecutor arose. Rome. Nero, in his insanity, declared that the Christians were responsible for a great fire the engulfed Rome, and made them enemies of the state. Nero had Christians murdered in the most horrible ways including having them fed to wild beasts, burned at the stake, and killed in gladiatorial contests.

So great was the onslaught against from these three persecutors that if the Jewish rebellion had not broken out, the church might have perished from the earth. Upon the death of Nero, Rome’s persecution against the church ended. Instead, the wrath of Rome came upon the very Jews that had persecuted the church.

Now, combine these things with Jesus’ statement that all these things would happen within a generation, and you must conclude that “the tribulation” had already occurred.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I write what I see the Word say.

The living oracles were given to Israel, and only to Israel, as the signs of the Firstborn who was to come, and everything in the law is about the Person and work of YHWH of hosts, incarnate, come in human flesh, to be the human brother -and only human brother- to Adam; and so, the legal Kinsman-Redeemer-of all 'in Adam' -of whosoever will; who has the power and the will to be the Kinsman- Redeemer, and the ONE who inherits Adam's kingdom -after purchasing it back.

In the oracles, the priesthood of Levi was given to Israel to serve in the place of the firstborn, and the priesthood of firstborn was given to the first Adam, in the beginning, when He was created as son of God and given the dominion of all this present creation, to rule for the Father, as the Father's dwelling place, a house, in his being, in whom the Presence of the glory of the Living Spirit dwelt.

Adam died as son of God when he ate the unclean fruit and we, his seed, died in him as sons of God -to come forth in Adam, when we would be born into the being of Adam as the multiplied persons from the first male and female Adam.

Our being became defiled and unclean for the Presence of the glory to indwell; but immediately a Redeemer was promised -or 'declared' in the presence of not only the first male and female Adam persons, but in our presence, as his seed in his loins, when the Creator, in the second Person, declared that the Seed of the woman would crush the head [authority] of the serpent.

Adam, the firstborn, died, his seed carried the promise of the redemption, through the firstborn, through Seth, down to Noah, who gave the blessing to Shem (not the first one born received the blessing, especially, ever), and Shem, as Melche, king of righteousness, gave it to Abraham.

YHWH gave it to Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Judah, David, and finally, to the One who was promised to come, the Seed of the woman, who is that Chief foundation 'Stone', which was laid on the 24th day of the ninth month in the womb of the virgin, [on the eve of Channukah] as the Chief foundation Stone for the human house of YHWH that He will inhabit again, in the fullness of His glory, when the human building, the true Holy of Holies, is complete, which is that bride of the New Man, the New Jerusalem, the Living Stones, sons of God inhabited with the glory of His Presence forever.

He is building His house stone by stone, of all those who are born from above into the New House of YHWH, the Israel of God, the Firstborn and only begotten Son of the Living God.

The Levites were taken to serve in place of the firstborn, for all Israel, until He should come whose rights as Firstborn preceded all others, and who came with the power of an endless life and Who will never leave us orphans, but will always be our 'Everlasting 'fully human' Father, as the 'New Man', and the Firstborn of the New Race, Who ransoms His brother's kingdom and marries His brother's 'barren' widow to raise up the godly seed that the Creator sought when He made Adam one spirit for multiplying the godly seed =sons of God (Malachi 2:15; Genesis 1:26-28; Genesis 5:2; Luke 3:38).

"Behold! what manner of love the Father hath bestowed on us, that we should be called the sons of God". "In Adam all die" -are cut off forever as sons of God-, in Christ, all are made alive [whosoever will].

The priesthood that we receive in Him is the rule, in Him, as the Firstborn, that Adam had and lost, over this kingdom, earth, the dominion of Adam and ben Adam; only in the New Man, the last Adam, we will have more glory than we would have had in Adam [if we had not died], for the first man was earthy, of the earth, the Last Man is YHWH from heaven, and we are made alive in His One Spirit, the Spirit from above, when we are born again, and the glory we will receive in His image will be greater than the glory of the first man.

That's what I've found in Scripture: and the priesthood is consecrated in our persons when we who are born in His Spirit are "laqach" =raptured, with the dead in Christ, which is equal to the harvest as sons, from this present creation, and given our regeneratd bodies, which correspond to the holy garments of the levitical priesthood, as a sign of the priesthood to come in the New Man, when we 'come to the measure of the perfect man'.

The consecration sign of Leviticus 8 was a seven day consecration period behind the doors of the temple. The priests, consecrated, having put on their holy garments and entering behind the doors, could not go out the doors for seven days.
The seven years of the great tribulation, Daniel's last week until Messiah reigns, is called one week, and for that one week, we who 'go in first', receive our sons of God regenerated bodies, the bodies of adoption, at the beginning of that week, and go in and remain behind the doors for that 'seven day week'.

Isaiah 26 19-21 shows that we are called, as the congregation of the LORD -both the dead in Christ and the living Saints- to come, enter, and shut our doors behind us until the indignation [on all the inhabitants of earth] be past.

Numbers 10:1-7 teaches the oracles of the two silver trumpets, about the heavenly ones that shall sound to call the entire congregation of YHWH to assemble the door of meeting.

Our true temple is in heaven: when He calls for our gathering, those two silver heavenly trumpets sound twice, and at that time, we who watch and pray, so that we may be counted worty to escape all these things that shall come on all the inhabitants of the earth, are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and we meet Him in the air and are told to go in to the temple in heaven, to shut our doors behind us, and we spend a week of consecration behind those closed doors.

Time 'in heaven' =in the tmple, is not the same as 'time' on earth, and we will be there for 'a week' in the temple, for our consecration: while earth will have the seven years, also called the night before the dawn, of that last Day of a thousand years -then the Messiah returns to set up His glorious kingdom and to cleanse out of His purchased possession all things that offend, and reigns before His elders in Jerusalem, gloriously, for the Sabbath Rest of this present creation.

 

[Hidden Manna]

 

[yeshuasavedme]

yeshuasavedme;
"I write what I see the Word say.

The living oracles were given to Israel, and only to Israel, as the signs of the Firstborn who was to come, and everything in the law is about the Person and work of YHWH of hosts, incarnate, come in human flesh, to be the human brother -and only human brother- to Adam; and so, the legal Kinsman-Redeemer-of all 'in Adam' -of whosoever will; who has the power and the will to be the Kinsman- Redeemer, and the ONE who inherits Adam's kingdom -after purchasing it back.

In the oracles, the priesthood of Levi was given to Israel to serve in the place of the firstborn, and the priesthood of firstborn was given to the first Adam, in the beginning, when He was created as son of God and given the dominion of all this present creation, to rule for the Father, as the Father's dwelling place, a house, in his being, in whom the Presence of the glory of the Living Spirit dwelt.

Adam died as son of God when he ate the unclean fruit and we, his seed, died in him as sons of God -to come forth in Adam, when we would be born into the being of Adam as the multiplied persons from the first male and female Adam.

Our being became defiled and unclean for the Presence of the glory to indwell; but immediately a Redeemer was promised -or 'declared' in the presence of not only the first male and female Adam persons, but in our presence, as his seed in his loins, when the Creator, in the second Person, declared that the Seed of the woman would crush the head [authority] of the serpent.

Adam, the firstborn, died, his seed carried the promise of the redemption, through the firstborn, through Seth, down to Noah, who gave the blessing to Shem (not the first one born received the blessing, especially, ever), and Shem, as Melche, king of righteousness, gave it to Abraham.

YHWH gave it to Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Judah, David, and finally, to the One who was promised to come, the Seed of the woman, who is that Chief foundation 'Stone', which was laid on the 24th day of the ninth month in the womb of the virgin, [on the eve of Channukah] as the Chief foundation Stone for the human house of YHWH that He will inhabit again, in the fullness of His glory, when the human building, the true Holy of Holies, is complete, which is that bride of the New Man, the New Jerusalem, the Living Stones, sons of God inhabited with the glory of His Presence forever.

He is building His house stone by stone, of all those who are born from above into the New House of YHWH, the Israel of God, the Firstborn and only begotten Son of the Living God.

The Levites were taken to serve in place of the firstborn, for all Israel, until He should come whose rights as Firstborn preceded all others, and who came with the power of an endless life and Who will never leave us orphans, but will always be our 'Everlasting 'fully human' Father, as the 'New Man', and the Firstborn of the New Race, Who ransoms His brother's kingdom and marries His brother's 'barren' widow to raise up the godly seed that the Creator sought when He made Adam one spirit for multiplying the godly seed =sons of God (Malachi 2:15; Genesis 1:26-28; Genesis 5:2; Luke 3:38).

"Behold! what manner of love the Father hath bestowed on us, that we should be called the sons of God". "In Adam all die" -are cut off forever as sons of God-, in Christ, all are made alive [whosoever will].

The priesthood that we receive in Him is the rule, in Him, as the Firstborn, that Adam had and lost, over this kingdom, earth, the dominion of Adam and ben Adam; only in the New Man, the last Adam, we will have more glory than we would have had in Adam [if we had not died], for the first man was earthy, of the earth, the Last Man is YHWH from heaven, and we are made alive in His One Spirit, the Spirit from above, when we are born again, and the glory we will receive in His image will be greater than the glory of the first man.

That's what I've found in Scripture: and the priesthood is consecrated in our persons when we who are born in His Spirit are "laqach" =raptured, with the dead in Christ, which is equal to the harvest as sons, from this present creation, and given our regeneratd bodies, which correspond to the holy garments of the levitical priesthood, as a sign of the priesthood to come in the New Man, when we 'come to the measure of the perfect man'.

The consecration sign of Leviticus 8 was a seven day consecration period behind the doors of the temple. The priests, consecrated, having put on their holy garments and entering behind the doors, could not go out the doors for seven days.
The seven years of the great tribulation, Daniel's last week until Messiah reigns, is called one week, and for that one week, we who 'go in first', receive our sons of God regenerated bodies, the bodies of adoption, at the beginning of that week, and go in and remain behind the doors for that 'seven day week'.

Isaiah 26 19-21 shows that we are called, as the congregation of the LORD -both the dead in Christ and the living Saints- to come, enter, and shut our doors behind us until the indignation [on all the inhabitants of earth] be past.

Numbers 10:1-7 teaches the oracles of the two silver trumpets, about the heavenly ones that shall sound to call the entire congregation of YHWH to assemble the door of meeting.

Our true temple is in heaven: when He calls for our gathering, those two silver heavenly trumpets sound twice, and at that time, we who watch and pray, so that we may be counted worty to escape all these things that shall come on all the inhabitants of the earth, are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and we meet Him in the air and are told to go in to the temple in heaven, to shut our doors behind us, and we spend a week of consecration behind those closed doors.

Time 'in heaven' =in the tmple, is not the same as 'time' on earth, and we will be there for 'a week' in the temple, for our consecration: while earth will have the seven years, also called the night before the dawn, of that last Day of a thousand years -then the Messiah returns to set up His glorious kingdom and to cleanse out of His purchased possession all things that offend, and reigns before His elders in Jerusalem, gloriously, for the Sabbath Rest of this present creation.

The Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the Word, and if one has private interpretations, then that one is not getting them from the Teacher.

"He opens mine eyes that I may behold wondrous things out of His law' but those wondrous things are not hidden and are not secret, but plain and easy to be entreated.


"No Scripture is of any private interpretation"; that says that the Scriptures are not stand alone items, but are all of a piece, and Scripture is to be compared with Scripture, not to Greek allegories and Greek philosophical spiritualizing kinds of doctrines;

It is in the oracles given to the Jews that the doctrines of the Person and work of salvation for all 'in Adam' is found, for whosoever will; and the restoration of Israel is a big item on the calendar of YHWH, and the thousand year reign of peace is explicitly a promise of His to the nation of Israel, when their Messiah reigns in Peace over all the earth from Jerusalem.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
and Salvation is of the Jews; and if one speaks they are to speak as the oracles of God

The advantage to the Jews is that to them were commited the oracles of God; the teaching of the Person and work of redemption of all in Adam was given to them in the Living Oracles, and the promise of the redemption in the blood of sprinkling of the New Man -the goal of the law, was thiers, first, as keepers of the vineyard; but now they receive it last for their not knowing the time of their visitation, so now the Gentile Church gets to enter first -the nation that is to be restored after the taking out of the Gentile Church in the finish of the first harvest of earth's sons of god in their regenerated bodies receives the goal, the finish, the New Man regenerated bodies, last.

Romans 3:1,2;
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

And those who would presume to speak for God, must speak as the oracles of God -and not contrary to them.

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, [let him speak] as [hos] the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

hos 1) as, like, even as, etc.
more help on the word is at the link;

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/5/1134267296-5691.html

 

[Hidden Manna]

The Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the Word, and if one has private interpretations, then that one is not getting them from the Teacher.

"He opens mine eyes that I may behold wondrous things out of His law' but those wondrous things are not hidden and are not secret, but plain and easy to be entreated.


"No Scripture is of any private interpretation"; that says that the Scriptures are not stand alone items, but are all of a piece, and Scripture is to be compared with Scripture, not to Greek allegories and Greek philosophical spiritualizing kinds of doctrines;

How to tell a False Prophet

I can live with getting ostracized for believing what Jesus and the apostles believed. (Matthew 24:34) But I cannot live with Jesus being called a false prophet because of the traditions of men and the misunderstanding of the church today. Because of the (New futurist ) view Jesus has been made into a false prophet. The secular media and unbelievers (who are always looking for an excuse to call Jesus a false prophet) are further discrediting Christianity because of the futuristic view.

They are not dumb people some know scripture better then some Christians. They know Jesus promised to return in that generation, and they know the first century saints looked for his return in that generation. (Titus 2:13) They also know about another verse in the Old Testament that a lot of Christians today do not.

I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’ when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. Deuteronomy 18:18-22

What is it about these verses that don’t agree with the traditional interpretation of the timing of prophecy. God said in these inspired verses if a prophet sets a time for something to happen, and that thing did not occur at the time, it was predicted, what would this mean? Well simply put that prophet was false and speaking presumptuously; and was not sent by God verse 22. The unbelievers know this concept is in the Bible as will. Jesus is NOT a false and he did keep his words.

Paul also tell us that the Prophet God talks about he would send in Deuteronomy 18:18 was Jesus. For Moses truly said to the fathers, “The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ (Acts 3:22-23)

If Jesus was that Prophet sent by God and speaking of God he had to keep his time words or time statements 100% or be called a false prophet. The good new is Jesus is NOT a false prophet and kept his word to that generation. Deuteronomy 18:18-22 has been a big problem for those who don’t believe Jesus’ words. But it is not a problem for those who are looking for an excuse to further discredit Christianity.

When we shown Christians this problem that makes Jesus into a false prophet. They run and retreat to this verse as to say God did NOT mean what he said in (Deuteronomy 18:18-22)

In II Peter 3:8 we find the statement about “one day being as a thousand years,” etc. (But please note the verse does not say one day IS a thousand years with the Lord. In verse 9 we find a “forgotten statement:” “The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some count slowness” (NASV). The word translated “slow” (Greek “braduno”) means just that. Compare Paul’s usage of the term in I Timothy 3:15. Peter’s point is that if God sets a time for fulfillment he fulfills on time! He is not slow; God can tell time and knows how to communicate with man, uses (time statements) that man can understand and keep his promises on time! This verse asserts in no uncertain terms that God is a God who keeps his promises!

Peter defended the promises of God and the timing there of against the scoffers of his day. (They taunted Christians, saying,) ‘Were is the promise of His coming?” (2 Peter 3:4a) Peter says they willfully forgot that God promised to destroy the world of Noah’s day, and He did it! It is a juncture that Peter uses the verse we are considering.

See the context? He is defending the truth of God’s word, especially the promises, against those who jeer and mock God’s faithfulness. Peter ministers to the household of faith as he strengthens them. He does not tear down the promises of God he defended the promises of God. He does not go against (Deuteronomy 18:18-22).

He says, if God promises to do a certain thing in a day, the promise is sure, and it will come on time. If God promises to do a certain thing in a thousand years, the promise is sure, and it will come on time.

Thus the scoffers rejected the message of God’s prophets, time and again. Second, note that the scoffers’ question was based on God’s long delay (2 Peter 3:3-4) The scoffers were telling Peter to look back at 40 years of delay! Where is this judgment God promised?” Their argument made some sense.

They based their question on the fast that for 4,000 years-since the beginning of creation-life had been going on pretty much the same, with on intervention from heaven even after Jesus said upon that generation would come all the righteous blood shed on the earth. (Matthew 23:34-36)

Side note this (word genetation) is the identical Greek word “genea,” which means, “ the period or the persons. This word has the same meaning as the word “generation” found in Luke 11:50-51, that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of THIS GENERATION; from the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zechariah which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, it shall be required of “THIS GENERATION.”

Third, Note that Peter’s response to these scoffers discusses millenniums of time. Peter replied that indeed the Lord had delayed judgment for centuries, but now the time was up. There would be no more delay. This generation would choose either to repent or to perish. In a study of this context and time statements we see all the disciples believe this way.

1.) Romans 13:12--Paul said “the day is at hand.”
2.) Romans 16:20--Paul said God “will bruise Satan under your feet shortly.”
3.) I Corinthians 7:28-31--Paul said “the fashion of this world is passing away,” and “the time is short.”
4.) I Timothy 6:14--Paul told Timothy to live faithfully “until the appearing of our Lord.”
5.) James 5:7-9--James urged his readers to be faithful “until the coming of the Lord;” he says “The coming of the Lord is at hand:” and “The judge is standing right at the door.”
6.) I Peter 4:5,7,17--Peter said Jesus was then “ready to judge the living and the dead;” “the end of all things is at hand;” and “the time is come for the judgment to begin at the house of God.”
7.) I John 2:15-18--John said the world was passing away and “it is the last hour.”
8.) Revelation—this book says no less than ten times that its predictions “must shortly come to pass,” were “at hand,” were to happen “quickly,” there would be “no more delay,” etc, etc.
Ever one of these men believed the (time was at hand) and there would be no more delay.

Now my next question, where in the Now Testament does any of the disciples or Jesus said God did not mean what he said in (Deuteronomy 18:18-22) ? In Matthew 10:23--Jesus said he would return in the lifetime of his disciples. When is the scripture that says God changed his mind about Deuteronomy 18:18-22 in the New Testament?

Where are the scripture for these things. Notice in Acts 3:23 what Peter says. And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ Those scoffers who tried to make the argument the Jesus was delaying his return in judgment were indeed destroyed from among the people in A.D 70 just the inspired Peter said.

I will be looking forward to your answers to my question about (Deuteronomy 18:18-22) and the new (testament time statements).

 

[Hidden Manna]

While it is ok to disagree, would you mind showing me from church history were all these people are wrong?

The word “generation” as used in Matthew 24:34 is from the Greek word “genea,” which means, “by implication an age” the period or the persons space in time 30 40 years.

Would you mind showing me from the (greek) were it can mean a generation over 2.000 years away.

And Paul says that the gospel of the kingdom was be preached in all the world.

Would you mind showing me from scripture were it was not.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.’ (Matthew 24:14) The year is 33 A.D.

Paul, his missionary journeys completed writes from his imprisonment in Rome to the saints in Colossians these magnificent remarks.... the gospel which you heard, which was (preached to every creature under heaven,) of which I, Paul became a minister. (Colossians 1:23) The year is 64 A.D. .

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

(But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: “Their sound has gone out to all the earth,) (And their words to the ends of the world.” (Romans 10:15-18)

Again we have the words of the inspired Paul that the gospel had been preached in all the world. Jesus near the end of His ministry set the condition for the end of the age. Paul thirty one years later, proclaimed the condition was fulfilled.

And we must remember, this is NOT Paul’s opinion, this is inspired writ, i.e., God’s opinion. What happened a few short years after Paul said those words? The end of the world of Judaism came! The year is 70 A.D.. That prophecy came to pass with the fall of Jerusalem and the inauguration of the kingdom of God.

And we know from Church History that (all the signs) were fulfilled. Since you disagree would you mind please showing were these people are wrong.

 

[Hidden Manna]

The reason why all preterist believe scripture has been fulfilled is because we believe Jesus know what he was talking about when he said (all these things would happen in that generation ) Matthew 24:34

We believe The “Key” that Unlocks scripture is to believe what Jesus and his disciples have said in scripture and not the traditional teaching of men today. Please don’t get mad when I say that. I am not saying you guys don’t believe Jesus.

What I am saying is Preterist don’t NOT believe the traditional teach about Christ’s return in the church today. And I will show you why as we go along.

Prediction after predictions of Christ’s return in futurist books into our future has failed to materialize. One such book was (the late grear planet earth).

And the secular media (who are always looking for an excuse to call Jesus a false prophet) are further discrediting Christianity because of the futurist view.

These people know the Bible batter then most Christians do today and they know Jesus said he would return in that generation. So they use that statement to try to discredit Jesus and his disciples and show that Jesus must be a false prophet. Notice what God said about any prophet who said he was speaking in Him name.

And if you say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’ (when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD) , if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)

These are not the words or opinions of any preterist this is inspired writ, i.e., God’s opinion. If a prophet said he was speaking in the name of God and made a (time statement) about something that thing had to come to pass within that (stated time frame) or that prophet was not speaking for God.

Most Christians today don’t know this Statement of God is in their Bible but the one’s who are calling Jesus a false prophet do know it is in there as you will soon see.

Jesus was that prophet here that God is talking about (see Acts 3:22-25)

Also notice here that Paul said that who ever did not hear the (words of Jesus the Prophet) He would utterly destroy from among the people. In other words the Jews verse 23. He did destroy them in A.D. 70.

Now as I was saying there are some who know these scripture and use them because of the futurist view to try to show Jesus is a false prophet. See the link below.

http://members.aol.com/just1crzyju/falseprophet.htm

This is just one of many, many, many web sites out there. And the secular world also uses these same things to discredit Christianity. I wish you could all go with me sometime when I go to other places to teach so you can hear what I am saying for yourself.

Until now no one has been able to address these kind of false statements against Christ and Christianity. Preterist can now show Biblically how these scriptures were fulfilled. The futurist view has failed to do that because of that view. You cannot defend Christianity with a futurist view when God said if a prophet speaks in His name the time statement must came to pass on time.

Only showing them how Scripture has been fulfilled can do that. Jesus was not a false prophet and he knows what he was talking about. This is just one of the things the preterist view is all about.

We can now show from scripture and history that Jesus and his disciples know what they were talking about when they said he would return soon.

And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. (Romans 13:11-12) Notice here that Paul says the day was at hand then.

You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. (James 5:8) Notice that James also said that Jesus was at hand then. Could anything be clearer, simpler, or more straight forward then Paul’s and Jemes’s statement here?

I can go on and on with scripture to show (they believed Jesus was returning in their lifetime as Jesus promised).

These saints know what they were talking about and they were not false prophets nor were any of them on any kind of drugs. God said over and over again there would be no more prolonged prophecy.

(Ezekiel 12:22-28) Son of man, what is that proverb that ye have in the land of Israel, saying, The days are prolonged, and every vision faileth? {23} Tell them therefore, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will make this proverb to cease, and they shall no more use it as a proverb in Israel; but say unto them, The days are at hand, and the effect of every vision. {24} For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel. {25} For I am the LORD: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord GOD. {26} Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, {27} Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off. {28} Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.

I believe God know what he was talking about when he said there would be NO MORE PROLONGED prophecy in Israel.

I also believe the disciples who know these scripture believed God when he said he would no longer PROLONGED prophecy in Israel. I believe they believe as God said the (day was at hand).

In short we believe what the Bible says and NOT what the church says the Bible says.

We don’t believe what (We all have been taught in the church) about a future coming of Christ because we believe it goes against the clear teaching of Jesus and the disciples in scripture.


The key to understanding any passage of Scripture has always been a good grasp of language, culture, and historical setting in which Scripture was ORIGINALLY written.

The disciples saw one short fulfillment period with two phases to it: a suffering humiliation phase and a victorious consummation phase. Were did they get that idea?

Does the Old Testament predict Christ Return? Any one who knows their Bible will answer a quicke "yes" to the question without realizing the implications.

A good book of the Bible that both Jews and Christians accept as highly messianic is the book of Isaiah. It should become apparent very quickly that Isaiah did not know of any "second coming."

For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance. The year of recompense for the cause of Zion. (Isaiah 34:8)

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me. Because the Lord has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liderty to the captive And the opening of the prison those who are bound. To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, And the day of veangeance of our God. (Isaiah 61:1-2)

Indeed the Lord has proclaimed to the end of the world Say to the daughter of Zion . Surely your salvation is coming Behold, His reward is with Him And His work before Him. (Isaiah 62:11)

For the day of vengeance is in My heart. And the year of My redeemed has come. (Isaiah 63:4)

These are just some of the old testament scriptures and not one distinguish between "a coming in redemption and a coming in vengeance."

This is the way the old testament Jewish prophets have always viewed it and the new testament saints hung onto their concepts. The Jews never had the concept of a second coming. That kind of language is never used by the Jewish prophets.

The language used closely connects the coming of the Lord with both salvation and vengeance (judgment) or reward. Nowhere does the OT teach a "second coming" to fulfill the rest of the things he was unable to fulfill the first time.

They saw one short fulfillment period with two phases to it; a suffering humiliation phase and a victorious consummation phase. They expected the consummation of all these things during one short fulfillment period according to God's prophets That is way Paul and James both said that the Lord was at hand (Romans 13:11; James 5:8-9)

One of the easiest things is letting the Bible speak for itself. James said Jesus was standing at the door! verse 9. If he was standing at the door it was in that generation. These is no such distinction in the old testament or New Testament Scripture between a (first coming of Christ with salvation and vengeance as clearly see by Paul and James.

Before anyone in our day and time can assign verses in the New Testament about the coming, of the Lord thousands of years they must first prove that the (Old Testament Prophets ) clearly distinguished between all these different coming of Christ.

Jesus didn't do anything that wasn't written in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets concerning Him. That language is another way of saying,'Holy Writ,' or as we call it today, the Old Testament.

In fact the only place in the Bible which even comes close to teaching a (second advent) is Heb. 9:28 where it says Christ will (appear a second time) .

This was using the Jewish symbolism of the High Priest at Yom Kippur when he took the blood into the holy place and then reappeared back outside the tabernacle (Temple) to announce that atonement had been accomplished.

Then Aaron lifted his hand toward the people blessed them, and came down from offering the sin offering, the burnt offering, and peace offerings. And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of meeting, and came out and blessed the people, Then the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people. (see Leviticus 9:1-24)

Notice here that Israel's sins were not forgiven until Aaron the High Priest came out of the tabernacle to bless the people verses 22,23 Every Jewish Christian understood simply that the second reappearance of Christ our High Priest would be during the same age..unto salvation. so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time apart from sin, for salvation. (see Hebrews 9:27-28) "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. (see Hebrews 10:37)

The Jews never had the concept of more then one coming with two phases to it and since it was the Jews who first taught the notion of a Messiah via the Jewish prophets it seems quite reasonable to respect their inspired witting.

The early church understood this to be simply a reappearance during His one-and only advent announcing that atonement had been accomplished. (See Hebrews 9:24-28) They saw one short fulfillment period with two phases to it and this is the same way the Jews have always viewed it. (Isaiah 63:4)

Now I am not here to make anyone come over to the preterist view. I am just showing you the problems we see with the futurist view.

Beside being called a false prophet this view is also one of the reasons why the Jews don't believe Jesus is their their Messiah, since the Old Testament Jewish prophets NEVER taught a second coming of the Messiah in the first place that would accomplish redemption, and judgement, many generations away.

Notice how various will know Jewish writer express this. The Jew refused to accept the excuse that the major prophecies concerning the Messiah will only be fulfilled in a "second coming." ( He expects the Messiah to complete his mission in his first attempt.) [The Real Messiah Reprinted from Jewish Youth, June 1973 page 15.]

The full establishment of the Kingdom could not be delayed. (The Real Messiah. Reprinted from Jewish Youth, June 1973. page 15).

Since Jesus did not fulfill the most important Messianic prophecies, they expected him to return to complete this task in a "second coming." At first, Christians expected that this (second coming) would come very shortly...in their lifetime. When their prayer was not an answered they began to hope that it would come a thousand years after Jesus' death. This was the millennium or thousand years kingdom.

Finally after a thousand years passed and Jesus still had not returned, (they postponed his second coming to an indefinite time). We therefore see that the (early Christians were forced to radically alter the Jewish concept of the Messiah in order to explain Jesus failure). This compounded with the pagan influence in the (early church, gave birth to a Messianic concept totally alien to Judaism. [Pinchas Stolper, ed. pages 32, 33}


You will discover that when ever any really strong question [such as why Jesus hasn't fulfilled all Messianic prophecies]..is asked [of the Christians], the (standard answer is that it refers to the second coming). It therefore becomes extremely important to ascertain the validity of this claim. The success of the Christian claim or its failure ( rest to a very large extent on the theory of the second coming).It is clearly an answer born of desperation. [Samuel Levin. You Take Jesus, I will Take God. Los Angeles 1980. Page 15]

A vital point, totally ignored, is that the Jewish prophecy never implied two comings divided by centuries. (see Isa. 35:4-6, 40:10-11, 61:1-2, 62:11, 63:1-6, 66:6-16; Zech. 14; and Mal.4:1-6)

 

[yeshuasavedme]

hello Snashin,
...
Let's establish the generation of the righteous and the generation of the wicked to see which generation will pass away and which will inherit the earth and when that will be and how it relates to Matthew 24;
"this generation shall not pass away 'until'" -

"this generation shall, therefore, pass away "when" the age ends".

"The age ends when Jesus returns in glory on His throne of glory as lightning, and is seen by every eye as He returns to take possession of His purchased kingdom and reigns for the thousand years of peace". -BTW, His return as lightning on His throne of glory seen by every eye in earth and under the earth (for those who pierced him will see him from their place in Hades, even), is the one single sign of His coming that He gives.

One generation of the righteous of this earth are called the seed of, or sons of, God.
One generation of the wicked of this earth are called the seed of, or sons of, the devil. One inherits the earth, one is purged from the earth at His return just as at the flood of Noah, Jesus said.

When speaking of the first Adam, the generations continue until the seed of Adam is cut off (in the eighth day), from the inheritance of the kingdom, in the new heavens and the new earth; and the first father has grandchildren unto the cutting off: of which cutting off in the eighth day, circumcision is the sign of.

When speaking of the sons of God, or the sons of the devil, there are no grandchildren to either, and both 'sons' are spirit 'born' in a manner of speaking, by believing the words of the one they become the sons of, and bear fruit to their respective fathers.

Adam was created 'male and female', one 'being' (one 'spirit', Malachi 2:15), and told to multiply and fill the earth; and Malachi 2;15 tells us that He sought 'sons' (godly seed), by that creation of the 'one being', 'Adam', by making him/them of the 'one' spirit. Genesis 1;26-28; Genesis 5:2; Malachi 2:15.

Adam is no longer a son for the glory of the Presence of YHWH to inhabit, since the rebellion, because of the defilement of his being with the unclean fruit; and the Last Man, the second Adam, the 'Firstborn' and only begotten (in His humanity, only) of the Father (for Adam is dead), who is YHWH of hosts, second Person, is come in human flesh "to bring many sons to glory".

The Creator will have His human sons to indwell in glory, but by adoption in the New Man's Spirit, that 'One Spirit' of Adoption; for Adam cannot inherit the kingdom that He was cut off from. Those sons are the 'one generation' of the righteous of this earth, and each and every single person in Adam who is adopted in Christ is a 'brother' to Christ and a 'brother' to each other in that same Spirit.

That is the teaching of Scripture ...
He came to bring many sons to glory -to the Presence, for Him to indwell, as sons.
that is His purpose: and those sons will inherit the earth 'in' the Firsborn.


The righteous generation -those born of the good seed, as God's sons;
1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Psa 14:5 There were they in great fear: for God [is] in the generation of the
Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

Psa 24:6 This [is] the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.
Psa 73:15 If I say, I will speak thus; behold, I should offend [against] the generation of thy children.
Psa 112:2 His seed shall be mighty upon earth: the generation of the upright shall be blessed.

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the wicked generation;
Pro 30:11 [There is] a generation [that] curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.

Pro 30:12 [There is] a generation [that are] pure in their own eyes, and [yet] is not washed from their filthiness.

Pro 30:13 [There is] a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.

Pro 30:14 [There is] a generation, whose teeth [are as] swords, and their jaw teeth [as] knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from [among] men.


Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

... who is promised to inherit the earth and who will perish -pass away, when the LORD returns in glory to reign over His kingdom in person from restored Jerusalem for the thousand years [-the wicked perish, the rihteous, the meek, inherit the earth].

...this theme is vitally important, for the promise is that the meek shall inhherit the earth and the wicked will perish out of it.

Read Psalm 37, if you would, for it goes with the theme of who shall perish -pass away, when, and why the Jews knew what Jesus meant.

This below, is completely proven false by the Scriptures above;
quote Hidden Manna;
The reason why all preterist believe scripture has been fulfilled is because we believe Jesus know what he was talking about when he said (all these things would happen in that generation ) Matthew 24:34

He did not say 'that generation'; He said "this generation shall not pass away until"..."He returns like lightning on His throne of glory" and "cleanses them off the earth" for His reign of peace!

"Let God be true, but every man a liar."
"Thy Word is true from the beginning"

 

[yeshuasavedme]

In Deuteronomy 30: the curse and the blessing is given, and the promise is that YHWH will gather them and cleanse them -a second time!.

The Blessing of Returning to God
30
"Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God drives you,
2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul,
3 that the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you.
4 If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you.
5 Then the Lord your God will bring [laqach] you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.
6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

The second gathering has not happened, and it is promised, from the beginning of the nation, and not the least grain of the natural seed of Israel, the descendents of Jacob, will be left to 'fall to the earth' among the nations of the Gentiles.

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as [corn] is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect [Israel] from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This gathering, which is the 'laqach' by angels, back to the wilderness, is mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24:31; and is that same gathering mentioned by Ezekiel in 20:33-44, in which not one seed of Jacob -Israel- will be left among the nations at that time, after the great tribulation; for they shall be assembled from every nation by angels, and brought before the LORD in the land of promise, as He said.

gather 1) to gather, assemble a) (Qal) to gather, collect, assemble
bring =fetch, "laqach"

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Preterism is a false teaching.
Israel will return to the LORD of hosts, and they will do so in the 'last day';
Hsa 3:4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and [without] teraphim:
Hsa 3:5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days [=original, 'last day'].

Isaiah 2:2,3; And it shall come to pass in the last days [last day] , [that] the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Preterism is a false teaching.
Israel will return to the LORD of hosts, and they will do so in the 'last day';
Hsa 3:4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and [without] teraphim:
Hsa 3:5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days [=original, 'last day'].

Isaiah 2:2,3; And it shall come to pass in the last days [last day] , [that] the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

No Preterism is NOT FALSE teaching, hyper-futurism is. Like I said all those scripture you posted were fulfilled when they came out of Babylon around 600-500 BC. Isaiah and Jereimah and Ezezkiel all foretold that after Babylon they would once again thrive as a nation. But Daniel saw the end of it and Jesus agreed because the new heaven and earth was to replace it and it did in AD70

 

[yeshuasavedme]

No Preterism is NOT FALSE teaching, hyper-futurism is. Like I said all those scripture you posted were fulfilled when they came out of Babylon around 600-500 BC. Isaiah and Jereimah and Ezezkiel all foretold that after Babylon they would once again thrive as a nation. But Daniel saw the end of it and Jesus agreed because the new heaven and earth was to replace it and it did in AD70

No, that is not true, by Scripture's testimony.

I believe that preterists Deceitfully handle the Word of God, and that it is a false religion, as it blatantly declares that things have happened that have not -for their own agendas, I suppose, of drawing off men after themselves.

Ezekiel's temple has not been built.
It changes the law of Moses, making the High Priest the King -and the Messiah; and the temple would not fit on the temple mount now, or any time in the past; but the Messiah will raise the temple mount at His return, and level the surrounding plains -and He will build the temple.

The temple Ezekiel received plans for has no veil to the Holy of Holies and no Ark of the covenant; but in the Holy of Holies the throne of Messiah is placed, where He will reign from Jerusalem over all the earth when He returns to restore Israel and reign for the thousand years.

In the millennial kingdom there will be no Day of atonement sacrifice, but a feast day at that former time of mourning; there will be no celebration of Pentecost, as it will be fullfilled in the first resurrection, completed as that harvest of sons of the earth for the LORD's glory at the beginning of the thousand years.

The fasts will be feasts, and the priesthood will be changed. The city will have many different features from the past, as laid out by Ezekiel, and the size of the temple is much different from any that has been built.
It goes on and on, but anyone can check it out for themselves and see that anyone who claims that Ezekiel's temple has been built is not honest in handling the Word of God.
Take the challenge: "prove all things, hold fast to that which is good".