Was God's Kingdom already established in 70 AD ? - Preterism views

[yeshuasavedme]

If the Old Prophets have not been fulfilled the Old Covenant is still in effect, Matthew 5:17-18.

First, the prophets have not been fullfilled, and God, Himself, took away the Old to establish the New, in Israel: the New Covenant is an Old Testament promise which was given to the nation of Israel and which they kept the oracle of in the blood of sprinkling.
Christ [=the New Man], is the end of the law [=the goal of the law], to every one that believes.

The Mercy Seat was about His finished work of salvation; but the prophets have not all been fullfilled at all -we're only part way through the oracles, which are put aside for Israel to act out as the living oracles of the Message that they teach until they come into the New Covenant in His blood as a nation, after the Church is taken out of the way [=harvested as sons of God off this present earth].

The nation of Israel has not not had the Ark of the Covenant with it's Mercy Seat, in the temple since the Babylonians destroyed the first temple -that has not been returned to Isarel since that time, for God has taken that away, and will receive them on the basis of the blood of sprinkling in the blood of the New Man, the Mercy Seat that the solid gold one represented.


The whole passage in Matthew 5 speaks of exceeding the righteousness of the Pharisees -which is only done by being in the New Man -which New Man has the commandments of God 'in Him' as part of His new nature, [represented as a type by the decalogue being placed in the Ark, which Ark represents the New Man, adopted in Christ and covered by His blood of sprinkling on His body, the Mercy Seat of solid gold].

We who are in Christ do not 'dwell in sin' -and that is how old nature has passed away and new nature is given, by the adoption in Christ.

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Murder Begins in the Heart
(Luke 12:57-59)
21 "You have heard that it was said to those *of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother *without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
Adultery in the Heart
27 "You have heard that it was said *to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.'* 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Marriage Is Sacred and Binding
(Matt. 19:9; Mark 10:11, 12; Luke 16:18)
31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except *sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
Jesus Forbids Oaths
33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
Go the Second Mile
(Luke 6:29-31)
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'* 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
Love Your Enemies
(Luke 6:27, 28, 32-36)
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor* and hate your enemy.' 44 *But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your *brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the *tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

5.) Romans 13:12 — Paul said “the day is at hand.”
6.) Romans 16:20 — Paul said God “will bruise Satan under your feet shortly.”
8.) I Corinthians 7:28-31 — Paul said “the fashion of this world is passing away,” and “the time is short.”
10.) Philippians 3:20-4:5 — Paul spoke of the resurrection at Christ’s coming and said “The Lord is at hand.”
12.) Hebrews 9:28; 10:37 — The writer said Christ would appear a second time for salvation and then asserted “in a very, very little while he that will come will come, and will not tarry.” Isn’t it sad that man says Christ has delayed, in spite of what this verse says? what does inspiration mean? Did the writer lie? Was he mistaken?
16.) Revelation — this book says no less than ten times that its predictions “must shortly come to pass,” were “at hand,” were to happen “quickly,” there would be “no more delay,” etc, etc.
Preterist believe these words. The problem here is one of preconceived ideas and belief in another gospel that Jesus and his disciples did not teach.

13.) James 5:7-9 — James urged his readers to be faithful “until the coming of the Lord;” he says “The coming of the Lord is at hand:” and “The judge is standing right at the door.”
11.) I Timothy 6:14 — Paul told Timothy to live faithfully “until the appearing of our Lord.”
14.) I Peter 4:5,7,17 — Peter said Jesus was then “ready to judge the living and the dead;” “the end of all things is at hand;” and “the time is come for the judgment to begin at the house of God.”

We are to live our lives watching and praying to be counted worthy to escape all these things that are coming on the inhabitants of the whole world, that Jesus said would happen, and happen during that last 'seven years', that 'one week', that 'short hour'.
If we want to stand before Him during that awful time, then we must live godly sober lives, watching and praying to escape -Jesus told us to pray that we may be counted worthy to escape all these things:

On the above: the context is SOON -and the Holy Spirit is the interpreter of the soon; 'shortly'. 'In a very little while', He will return, and this life will be as a vapor. We won't remember it nor will it come to mind; it's just not going to be very long until this is all over and we are in the eternal rest of the regeneration of the heavens and the earth -but first, a short Day of Sabbath rest, the promised times of refreshing, for this earth, of a thousand years, called the Day of the LORD, will be given it, when Messiah returns to reign in Peace

About a thousand years BC, nearly three thousand years ago, the Holy Spirit promised through David that "soon" -the wicked will be cut off from the earth and the righteous would inherit the earth and delight themselves in the abundance of Peace -the Sabbath of Rest for earth's thousands.

The Heritage of the Righteous and the Calamity of the Wicked
A Psalm of David.
Do not fret because of evildoers,
Nor be envious of the workers of iniquity.
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass,
And wither as the green herb.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off;
But those who wait on the Lord,
They shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,
But it shall be no more.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

The context of Psalm 37 is about the same time that John delineates, that comes when Jesus Christ takes His great power and reigns in person from restored, delivered Jerusalem, over the entire earth for a thousand year Sabbath rest for this present Creation.

His Day was seen by John, and that Day is a thousand years, and that Day begins with the darkness of black night in which there is no brightness, as Amos 5:20 says,
"[Shall] not the day of the LORD [be] darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it"?; and that day begins with the brightness absent because the Church has been taken out of the way (which is the dwelling of the 'brightness' of God on earth, since Pentecost), and then the man of sin can be/will be revealed and have his 'hour' of power, before He is destroyed by the Brightness of the coming of the LORD Jesus Christ to reign on this earth for the Sabbath of a thousand years of Peace.

2 Thessalonians 2:8; "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming":
Jesus promises that He will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, when he comes like lightning on His throne of glory to reign over His purchased kingdom.

The Tares remaining who were not destroyed in the battle over Jerusalem at His coming (because they were not in the army of the man of sin), will be gathered together, by angels, from all the Gentile nations, and judged before Him on His throne of glory -and sent into the everlasting fire.
The earth will be utterly cleansed of all the wicked generation of the devil who remain alive on earth at His coming.
That is His promise.

Soon, the wicked generation shall be no more, and the righteous generation that keeps peace shall inherit the earth. John saw it all, in the book of Revelation:
PSALM 37
The Heritage of the Righteous and the Calamity of the Wicked
A Psalm of David.
Do not fret because of evildoers,
Nor be envious of the workers of iniquity.
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass,
And wither as the green herb.
...

7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him;
Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way,
Because of the man who brings wicked schemes to pass.
8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath;
Do not fret--it only causes harm.

9 For evildoers shall be cut off;
But those who wait on the Lord,
They shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,
But it shall be no more.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.


12 The wicked plots against the just,
And gnashes at him with his teeth.
13 The Lord laughs at him,
For He sees that his day is coming. (the day of destruction and darkness)
14 The wicked have drawn the sword
And have bent their bow,
To cast down the poor and needy,
To slay those who are of upright conduct.
15 Their sword shall enter their own heart,
And their bows shall be broken.
...18 The Lord knows the days of the upright,
And their inheritance shall be forever.
19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time,
And in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20 But the wicked shall perish;
And the enemies of the Lord,
Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish.
Into smoke they shall vanish away.
...
22 For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth,
But those cursed by Him shall be cut off.


27 Depart from evil, and do good;
And dwell forevermore.
28 For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land,
And dwell in it forever.
...
32 The wicked watches the righteous,
And seeks to slay him.
33 The Lord will not leave him in his hand,
Nor condemn him when he is judged.


34 Wait on the Lord,
And keep His way,
And He shall exalt you to inherit the land;
When the wicked are cut off, you shall see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power,
And spreading himself like a native green tree.
36 Yet *he passed away, and behold, he was no more;
Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found.

37 Mark the blameless man, and observe the upright;
For the future of that man is peace.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together;
The future of the wicked shall be cut off.

Those remaining alive at the coming of the LORD to reign on earth, who are His by coming into the New covenant in His blood will be called "the Blessed of the LORD", for they shall inherit the kingdom the Father prepared for them "from the foundation of the earth" (for His human sons, in Adam, at Creation the earth was "the kingdom prepared" -Adam lost it; the Last Adam redeemed it and His adopted sons will inherit it in Him, the New and only human Firstborn).

 

[yeshuasavedme]

7.) I Corinthians 1:4-8 — Paul said the Corinthians would have the miraculous gifts until “the end,” the Day of the Lord.

Yes, on that I agree with you. Though not all speak with tongues, no one is to forbid it, and the Holy Spirit is given to a many as the LORD shall call -to the end of the age.


Acts 2:...
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. ...
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

One other thing, Paul said the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven and that was in the first century before 70 AD.

Colossians 1:23
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Yes, He did, I agree, so does that mean that now you changed your mind and think that Jesus came before 70 AD, after all? -according to your previous statement about Matthew 10:23?
BTW, the disciples were mostly dead in 70 AD -only John, that I know of, was alive, for sure; and they had most certainly long before 70 AD gone over all the cities of Israel! -as the verse you cited proves, gone over the whole world, in fact, so Jesus had already come in the preterist proof verse? -or not, cause one verse contradicts the other, as proof!

Hidden Manna 1.) Matthew 10:23 — Jesus said he would return in the lifetime of his disciples.

Matthew 10:23; "But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

I think I responded to all of your post with Scriptural reasons why I cannot believe your views.
I would like it if you would answer the Scriptures I asked you to answer, when I refuted your statements with my Scriptural reasons and asked you to respond, twice, before.

 

[Hidden Manna]

I would like it if you would answer the Scriptures I asked you to answer, when I refuted your statements with my Scriptural reasons and asked you to respond, twice, before.

Okay yesuasavedme, I'll answer all your qeustions with scripture accually all I need is one verse and that should do it although you will not believe it here it is.

Luke 21:22 "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.


There it is and that is all I hve time for, if any other Preterist has the time to satisfy your quest I hope they can send the rest of eternity helping you for I can clearly see you have been bafooned to the maxium degree. No offence to you but I know one who is set in their ways and nothing can be done to sway them into the truth.

I think we also have to factor in the literalistic thinking that prevailed in the church. The Hebrew people weren’t so much artists with physical things, because their work could be construed as idolatry. So, they became artists with words. Take for example David’s words written while living in a cave in Psalm 57.

Be merciful to me, O God, be merciful to me!
For my soul trusts in You;
And in the shadow of Your wings I will make my refuge,
Until these calamities have passed by.
2 I will cry out to God Most High,
To God who performs all things for me.
3 He shall send from heaven and save me;
He reproaches the one who would swallow me up.
Selah
God shall send forth His mercy and His truth.
4 My soul is among lions;
I lie among the sons of men
Who are set on fire,
Whose teeth are spears and arrows,
And their tongue a sharp sword.
5 Be exalted, O God, above the heavens;
Let Your glory be above all the earth.

According to how much prophecy is interpreted today, God has wings like a bird. A cannibal was after David. David was very brave to be living in a cave with lions. David’s enemies had dental problems, but they got set on fire. You get the point.

Many say the Bible must be interpreted literally except when it is obviously not speaking literally. Translation: The only time I don’t have to take the Bible literally is when it doesn’t fit into my paradigm—like soon never really means soon.

One can have license to be a philanderer –
1Cor 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none.

Or why hold down gainful employment when real righteousness is found elsewhere –

Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.
And let’s not forget the issue of out right ignoring a section of scripture because it does not fit into the traditional teaching of men.

Take for example (Matthew 24:34) The word “generation” as used in Matthew 24:34 is from the Greek word “genea,” which means, “by implication an age” the period or the persons space in time 30 40 years. If you ask them to show you from the (greek) were the word “genea,” can mean over 2.000 years they our right ignore the question.

Then they run to a section of scripture like this and are quick to tell you that the (gospel was NOT preached in all the world).
And in (Matthew 24:14) it says. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.’ You tell them the year of this scripture is 33 A.D.

You go on to tell them about Paul, his missionary journeys being completed and what he writes from his imprisonment in Rome to the saints in Colosse with these magnificent remarks.... the gospel which you heard, which was (preached to every creature under heaven,) of which I, Paul became a minister. (Clossians 1:23) The year is 64 A.D. .

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: “Their sound has gone out to all the earth,) (And their words to the ends of the world.” (Romans 10:15-18)

If you point out these are the words of the inspired Paul that the gospel had been preached in all the world. Jesus near the end of His ministry set the condition for the end of the age. Paul, thirty one years later, proclaimed the condition were fulfilled in his lifetime. You tell them to remember, this is NOT Paul’s opinion, this is inspired writ, i.e., God’s opinion.

You then tell them what God also said about any prophet who say they are speaking in His name. And if you say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’ (when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass,) that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18 21-22)

You then point out Paul, thirty one years later, proclaimed the condition were fulfilled in his lifetime. It had to be fulfilled within Paul’s lifetime according to God’s own words.

You then ask them what happened a few short years after Paul said those words? The end of the world of Judaism came! The year is 70 A.D.. That prophecy came to pass with the fall of Jerusalem and the inauguration of the kingdom of God.

What do they say? We are still waiting for the end?” You will see a demonstration of the power of the traditions of men over the word of God. You will hear the clear and simple words of Paul made complex and muddy.

There is a common error within man that go way back to the first century Jews and that is the tendency to form a concept of how a prophetical event is going to find fulfillment and what is going to actually transpire, and then ignore any time-element involved in the scripture choosing instead to wait for things to happen as he things they must. This might be safe and justifiable if the prophetical event did not have time statements.

Truth is always truth. It doesn’t change to suit the reader. If the reader of the Bible chooses to ignore and not believe, that doesn’t change the truth. If not (one person) believed what is written in the Bible that doesn’t change what is said in the Bible from being the truth. Jesus and the disciples didn’t modify the truth to suit the ruler of the Jews. And their words are still truth today if no one chooses to believe them.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

According to how much prophecy is interpreted today, God has wings like a bird....
.

For not having time to deal with my Scriptural replies, you sure went off on another big bunch of things that have no relationn to the questions asked of you -so I presume you actually are the one who has the four fingers pointing back to you for the one you point at me.

Now I have a question that you may not answer, either, as you really haven't replied to Scriptures that I've posted to you, anyway: am I replying to Scriptures to you that you, yourself, have discovered and believed through your own study of the Word, comparing Scripture to Scripture, or am I just replying to a book and verses you got out of that book by some preterist?

If you have studied Scripture, it seems to me that you would have a solid convincing argument in your own mind -as I do- that you could present in response to my replies to your verses that you list -some of which I have shown have no relation to the way you use them.
But if you just have come to believe what you believe by some man's book or books, then that would answer, to me, why you cannot refute the scriptures that I respond with -and do not.
There is no discourse, just your lists that when checked prove to be taken 'dishonestly' 'by someone' IMO, to say things that they do not say at all.



As to the wings of God -for just one of your mentions; in fact, His glory is that, if you'll do a study on it sometime, you'll find it fascinating, from Scripture.

 

[Hidden Manna]

For not having time to deal with my Scriptural replies, you sure went off on another big bunch of things that have no relationn to the questions asked of you -so I presume you actually are the one who has the four fingers pointing back to you for the one you point at me.

Now I have a question that you may not answer, either, as you really haven't replied to Scriptures that I've posted to you, anyway: am I replying to Scriptures to you that you, yourself, have discovered and believed through your own study of the Word, comparing Scripture to Scripture, or am I just replying to a book and verses you got out of that book by some preterist?

If you have studied Scripture, it seems to me that you would have a solid convincing argument in your own mind -as I do- that you could present in response to my replies to your verses that you list -some of which I have shown have no relation to the way you use them.
But if you just have come to believe what you believe by some man's book or books, then that would answer, to me, why you cannot refute the scriptures that I respond with -and do not.
There is no discourse, just your lists that when checked prove to be taken 'dishonestly' 'by someone' IMO, to say things that they do not say at all.



As to the wings of God -for just one of your mentions; in fact, His glory is that, if you'll do a study on it sometime, you'll find it fascinating, from Scripture.

Hey just because I did not answer your "questions" according to how you wanted me to does not make what you said to be the truth. To be honest with you I tried to find the questions you had for me but my eyes strained out trying to read all the stuff you wrote again. I guess it would be much easier for us if you would just repost those questions everytime you ask for an answer that way I do not have to guess what they are.

As for Luke 21:22 you totally missed the point because of your preconceived ideas about the future when in fact all scripture has been fulfilled as of AD70 when the last "building" temple was destroyed along with the OC system which made it thrive. That was the end of the old heaven and earth. It no longer is around to deceive people back into the Laws of sin and death.

BTW, you are replying to Scriptures that I myself, have read and discovered and believed through my own study of the Word, comparing Scripture to Scripture.

I've was a futurist for 30 years and loved studing endtimes but as of the last two years I came to a conclusion the the full preterist views is the right one. I did not accept it for a while but as I studied with an open heart and mind I was totally convinced.

I started out as a pre tribber then post tribber then seventh day adventist for the last twelve years before becoming a full preterist, but that was before I was partial preterist for a while until the full view made sense.

Now that I can look back on things it sure would have been better if someone had presented me with the full preterist view 31 years ago, I would have done much better with my life if I would have known.

 

[Snashin]

Just a few thoughts I have on Preterism:

It seems that for 6000 years we've been trying to get it right. We were given 4000 years under the law to prepare the way for the Lord. Now the Lord has come, His Kingdom has come, and we are in it. We no longer need to prepare the way.

Worship means service. To worship God means that we will subject ourselves to His law and we will serve Him to accomplish His will. We do not really need to worship in a place, because Jesus says that we shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth (John 4:21-24).

Under the Old Covenant, God dwelt in temples made by hands, in the new covenant - we became the temple. Although it is good to get together, in a place such as a church, God's Holy Spirit lives within us and we are personally molded and shaped by the Spirit to accomplish His will and to make us whole. The question is not whether we should go to church, but rather how should we do church? Church should be small groups, or in homes, where everyone has a word to say, or a question to ask, and no one is forbidden from speaking. (Ideally).

Each one needs to work out his/her own salvation. We have much to think about and much to account for. We are saved by grace, a gift from God, by first believing that He is and He did. We are saved by our faith, but we are called by God to do His works/will.

Since Jesus already returned to establish His Kingdom in 70AD - we do not have to wait for His return. We can spend our time working out our salvation, serving Him by serving others, doing the works He has prepared for us. We are motivated to action by our faith. IF you are not motivated by your faith, you need to spend more time working out your salvation. In Hebrews 11:1 where it says 'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' - this is the faith we must have to be motivated.



It's funny, but there really are no questions left to answer. It's all really very simple. It has already been done - God's Kingdom has been established - and we are invited to become a part of it. Each one of us must work this out in their own mind.



There are details of course, but mostly of a curious nature. Such as, if satan has been destroyed - then why is there still evil in the world? Is it our own fault - because we have preached a false message of a future resurrection, and people still have a satan to blame? There has been evil in every generation. Is evil in the world so that we can see it - so that we will have the knowledge of good and evil, and choose the good?



Where would we be if we had preached that God's Kingdom had already been established. Where would we be if our only concern was whether to accept or reject God's invitation? Would people be satisfied to die, and let their spirit die? Or would they have taken their salvation more seriously?



There are no technicalities left to debate about preterism. It is a (OK - I'll leave a door open) 99% certainty that 70AD was the year that God's Kingdom was established. Those who continue to exalt themselves above God's Kingdom by preaching a different message are clearly the ones who will pay the highest price.



We must consider whether we are willing to devote and give our lives to a Kingdom that is not of this world, that is spiritual in nature. The error of those who crucified Christ was their belief that their would be an earthly, political kingdom on this earth. It's the difference between worldliness and spirituality, or otherworldliness.



We must put the responsibility on ourselves to work this out in our own minds. It is not sufficient to bring others to Christ through preaching and missions, and so forth. We must work out our own salvation. This is a big deal, because by preaching to others we think we can earn our salvation - and so we don't have to accept as much responsibility for our own actions, or our own sin. But we must face our own sin. We must master it and control it.



We must teach what God speaks. Not doublespeak, misinterpretation, mistranslation, or fairy tales. At this point, I am convinced in my own mind that the God's Kingdom was established in 70AD. Is there anyone out there who is practicing this type of faith?
So, how now, shall we live?

 

[Hidden Manna]

Just a few thoughts I have on Preterism:

It seems that for 6000 years we've been trying to get it right. We were given 4000 years under the law to prepare the way for the Lord. Now the Lord has come, His Kingdom has come, and we are in it. We no longer need to prepare the way.

Worship means service. To worship God means that we will subject ourselves to His law and we will serve Him to accomplish His will. We do not really need to worship in a place, because Jesus says that we shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth (John 4:21-24).

Under the Old Covenant, God dwelt in temples made by hands, in the new covenant - we became the temple. Although it is good to get together, in a place such as a church, God's Holy Spirit lives within us and we are personally molded and shaped by the Spirit to accomplish His will and to make us whole. The question is not whether we should go to church, but rather how should we do church? Church should be small groups, or in homes, where everyone has a word to say, or a question to ask, and no one is forbidden from speaking. (Ideally).

Each one needs to work out his/her own salvation. We have much to think about and much to account for. We are saved by grace, a gift from God, by first believing that He is and He did. We are saved by our faith, but we are called by God to do His works/will.

Since Jesus already returned to establish His Kingdom in 70AD - we do not have to wait for His return. We can spend our time working out our salvation, serving Him by serving others, doing the works He has prepared for us. We are motivated to action by our faith. IF you are not motivated by your faith, you need to spend more time working out your salvation. In Hebrews 11:1 where it says 'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' - this is the faith we must have to be motivated.



It's funny, but there really are no questions left to answer. It's all really very simple. It has already been done - God's Kingdom has been established - and we are invited to become a part of it. Each one of us must work this out in their own mind.



There are details of course, but mostly of a curious nature. Such as, if satan has been destroyed - then why is there still evil in the world? Is it our own fault - because we have preached a false message of a future resurrection, and people still have a satan to blame? There has been evil in every generation. Is evil in the world so that we can see it - so that we will have the knowledge of good and evil, and choose the good?



Where would we be if we had preached that God's Kingdom had already been established. Where would we be if our only concern was whether to accept or reject God's invitation? Would people be satisfied to die, and let their spirit die? Or would they have taken their salvation more seriously?



There are no technicalities left to debate about preterism. It is a (OK - I'll leave a door open) 99% certainty that 70AD was the year that God's Kingdom was established. Those who continue to exalt themselves above God's Kingdom by preaching a different message are clearly the ones who will pay the highest price.



We must consider whether we are willing to devote and give our lives to a Kingdom that is not of this world, that is spiritual in nature. The error of those who crucified Christ was their belief that their would be an earthly, political kingdom on this earth. It's the difference between worldliness and spirituality, or otherworldliness.



We must put the responsibility on ourselves to work this out in our own minds. It is not sufficient to bring others to Christ through preaching and missions, and so forth. We must work out our own salvation. This is a big deal, because by preaching to others we think we can earn our salvation - and so we don't have to accept as much responsibility for our own actions, or our own sin. But we must face our own sin. We must master it and control it.



We must teach what God speaks. Not doublespeak, misinterpretation, mistranslation, or fairy tales. At this point, I am convinced in my own mind that the God's Kingdom was established in 70AD. Is there anyone out there who is practicing this type of faith?
So, how now, shall we live?

According to the scriptures that were written for us as an example. Note the scriptures were not written to us, they were written to the first century first-fruits.

Romans 15:4
For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.

1 Cor 10:11
Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

There are still many principles that we are to live by such as loving one another as Christ loved us, that did not end in AD 70

 

[Snashin]

Hidden Manna,

Amen

Thank you for your reply. Are there any scriptures that have had a significant effect on your life in light of your preterist views? It has had a considerable effect on how I view my own salvation - just in the sense that it is so personal - but isn't that just like God?
It will be even more interesting to explore the scriptures with the confidence that comes from knowing that God accomplished that we He set out to do. Not that there was any doubt - but it is good to know that, once again, His word is truth.

Take care,
Snashin

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hello;
Lets plow right in.
First, John saw the Day of the LORD and the revelation of the LORD Jesus Christ and Him coming in power with great glory, to rule the earth. John said; "I was in spirit in the LORD'S Day =Day of the LORD, =Day of Christ, and He saw it all from heaven before he died.

~~~~~~~~~~
In Matthew 24 Jesus was answering his disciples, who asked him "when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the age..
these things included the destruction of the temple -that's done, so let's continue;

"Of the end of the age";
Jesus was speaking to Messianic Jews whose whole desire was to see the messianic age, when the Messiah ruled the world from restored Jerusalem, as promised, and every single seed of the wicked one would be removed off the earth and the reign of Peace would be over all the earth.
Not done.

Jesus gave a long list of things that would happen, but the end of the age is not yet; This age ends when 'this generation' passes away. The generation that inherits the earth remains, and that generation is the righteous seed, the children of God who have received His word in faith and acted upon it, producing fruit unto righteousness.

'This generation that shall pass away' at His return is the seed of the wicked one, who are children of the devil by being born as his children by believing his lies. they are "the wicked" who "go astray, speaking lies as soon as they are born" -as children of the devil.
Cain was of the wicked and slew his brother; and "all the blood of all the prophets from righteous Abel on will be required of 'this generation'" the generation of the wicked one, his children, who are the children of wrath who shall be cleansed off the earth for the reign of Peace.
God has no grandchildren and the devil has no grandchildren. There is one righteous generation and one wicked generation who are to be harvested; one gathered in the "barn" and one thrown in the fire.


Those born from above are brothers, with one Father; those born of the wicked one are brothers, with one father.


This generation has not passed away, so the age has not ended, Jesus has not come as lightning, with every eye in hell beneath and on earth seeing Him return on His throne of glory (every eye shall see him), to rule His kingdom on earth for the thousand year reign.

Psalm 37 is not fullfilled, for one, and Matthew 24:34 is not fullfilled.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be....
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age.

The Parable of the Tares Explained
Matthew 13;
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


The disciples, Messianic Jews, knew their Scriptures that promised the restoration of Jerusalem as the throne of the LORD and knew of the promised Messianic Kingdom of Peace over all the earth. When? was answered -when He returns on His throne of glory and the wicked generation passes away and righteousness reigns.

The Scriptures must all be fullfilled, and 'this generation' has not passed away, and shall pass away when the LORD returns to set up His kingdom.
These Scriptures that I posted about the generation that shall pass away and the generation that shall inherit the earth are true, and one will pass, and one will inherit the earth.

 

[Snashin]

Hi yeshuasavedme,


I'm just not buyin' it. Jesus says that some would not even taste death before He returned. Why do you think that is not literal?

Snashin

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hi yeshuasavedme,


I'm just not buyin' it. Jesus says that some would not even taste death before He returned. Why do you think that is not literal?

Snashin

Hello Snashin,
I believe in the absolute literalness of all that Jesus said. The problem is He did not say it in English -and the interpreters have not been true to the original Greek; but the original Greek is available, it is not hidden, and you may prove all things -which we are commanded to do. The interpreters were not inspired, but they also did not teach the interpretation that preterists teach.

Jesus said a 'certain one' -only one certain one- standing there would not taste of death until he saw the "son of Man coming in His kingdom; -His kingdom come with power.
That certain one was John, and he saw Him coming in His kingdom -His kingdom come with power- on this earth; and wrote the book about it.

John saw the revelation of Jesus Chrst; the Day of the LORD that is a thousand years, and he saw it; beginning with the rapture and the night on earth, in which is no brightness (the Church is gone to the temple in heaven to be with the LORD for their week of consecration as priests who will reign with Him over the earth, as Leviticus 8 teaches the type and symbol of), which dawns with the brightness of the coming of the LORD, when He returns to cleanse the kingdom on earth of all wicked, and to reign in peace for the thousand year Sabbath -the times of refreshing.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some [a certain one] standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see[ till he sees 'eido'] the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some [tis 1) a certain, a certain one...] AV - certain 104, some 73, any man 55, any 37, one 34, man 34,
anything 24, a 9, certain man 7, something 6, somewhat 6,
ought 5, some man 4, certain thing 2, nothing + 3756 2, divers 2,
he 2, thing 1, another 2, not tr 17, misc 22; 448] of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some [ a certain one] standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they[they is not in the Greek, just eido, 'see'] see the kingdom of God.

Jesus never said that any of the disciples would remain till He returned, even though a saying went out that He said John would; yet, the Word is clear that He did not say even that;
Jhn 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee?

The revelation is when Jesus returns to reign, and the Day of the LORD begins with the night, before the dawn, and John saw the whole thing and reprioted all that he saw, the entire unfolding of the kingdom of God come to earth and the thousand year reign of Peace.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew [ 1) to show, expose to the eyes 2) metaph. a) to give evidence or proof of a thing b) to show by words or teach] unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw [eido; 1) to see a) to perceive with the eyes b) to perceive by any of the senses c) to perceive, notice, discern, discoverd) to see 1) i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything 2) to pay attention, observe 3) to see about somethinga) i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it 4) to inspect, examine 5) to look at, behold e) to experience any state or condition f) to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit].
Rev 1:10 I was en the Spirit en the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest,
[ blepo; 1) to see, discern, of the bodily eye
a) with the bodily eye: to be possessed of sight, have the power of seeing
b) perceive by the use of the eyes: to see, look descry
c) to turn the eyes to anything: to look at, look upon, gaze at
d) to perceive by the senses, to feel
e) to discover by use, to know by experience
2) metaph. to see with the mind's eye
a) to have (the power of) understanding
b) to discern mentally, observe, perceive, discover, understand
c) to turn the thoughts or direct the mind to a thing, to consider, contemplate, to look at, to weigh carefully, examine
3) in a geographical sense of places, mountains, buildings, etc. turning]

write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

 

[seebs]

I'm just not buyin' it. Jesus says that some would not even taste death before He returned. Why do you think that is not literal?

This is a good question. Furthermore, are we to imagine that Jesus is not with us now?

 

[Snashin]

This is a good question. Furthermore, are we to imagine that Jesus is not with us now?

Hi Seebs,

Welcome.

Good question on your part as well. But I don't believe you have any Biblical basis for that statement. You're probably speaking of the verse in Revelation where Jesus says He will be with us always. Right? You might assume that you cannot because you think He is speaking with John. But there is no verse that ever says He is not with us. You are dealing with the inevitable question of 'well, ok, now what?'.
Now, you can rest in the assurance that God's Kingdom has been established - a new heaven and earth has been prepared for us. There's a bunch of people there already. And you can look forward to going there when you die, you need only accept the Lord's invitation.
This is what I have recently discovered, I don't have it all worked out yet, but I'm gettin' there.

Snashin

 

[Snashin]

yeshuasavedme,

Let me ask you a question.

Who is the we in Genesis - when God says in Genesis 1:26?

"26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...."

Also which version/s of the Bible do you use?

Thank you,
Snashin

 

[Hidden Manna]

Hi Seebs,

Welcome.

Good question on your part as well. But I don't believe you have any Biblical basis for that statement. You're probably speaking of the verse in Revelation where Jesus says He will be with us always. Right? You might assume that you cannot because you think He is speaking with John. But there is no verse that ever says He is not with us. You are dealing with the inevitable question of 'well, ok, now what?'.
Now, you can rest in the assurance that God's Kingdom has been established - a new heaven and earth has been prepared for us. There's a bunch of people there already. And you can look forward to going there when you die, you need only accept the Lord's invitation.
This is what I have recently discovered, I don't have it all worked out yet, but I'm gettin' there.

Snashin

The Glory of the New Covenant

Jesus said that His kingdom would come without observation. (Luke 17:20-21) Paul said in II Cor 4:

We do not look at the things, which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things, which are seen, are temporary, but the things, which are not seen are eternal.

In that day the old covenant was being left behind for the glory of the new. The old covenant dealt with things that were seen. It is filled with types and shadows that were physical representations of the spiritual realities of the new covenant. For example, every blessing in the OC was material or temporal. Then we see Paul saying that through Christ we are blessed with every spiritual blessing (Eph 1:3).

The problem we have today is that the same thinking that caused so many of the Jews to miss the Messiah is still around today. They were expecting the messiah to bring a visible OC type kingdom. in other words, more of the same, only bigger and better. Likewise, today we still have people expecting a really big cubic city to drop down out of the sky someday.

There were physical signs when the kingdom of God came in power namely the destruction of the Jerusalem and the temple. Now, we must assume that this unseen kingdom is here in fullness. The question is what do we expect it to look like?

Some would expect that a lot of really exciting stuff should happen. Really “wow” kind of things like miracles and the like. However, we must remember that the New Testament miracles were the sign that the kingdom was near. Remember in the day of Moses, the greatest miracles happened not in the Promised Land but in the wilderness time, in other words, during the transitional period between Egypt and the Promised Land. Yet, things like manna from the sky, the cloud by day, and the pillar of fire by night, and miraculous provisions of water all ceased when they entered into the Promised Land. Yes, there were still miracles in the land, but not of the same intensity we see in the wilderness period.

Certainly there is an application for the covenantal exodus we see in the New Testament. Remember we see the immature church during this time. The question is what should the mature church in a fully consummated kingdom look like and experience?

Others think that the kingdom should bring perfection. No more bad guys. No more sin. No more problems. Utopia. Yet, is a perfect world, ever promised by God? Yes, Jesus put away sin, but we never see in the scriptures that this means we will stop sinning. Rather it means that sin has lost its power to keep us from God’s presence. Moreover, is a trouble free world really the best thing for us?

Of this we can be certain, at the heart of the kingdom of God is restoration of relationship between God and humanity. Even Jesus’ miracles speak of this fact. Every one of them spoke of restoration and forgiveness. He healed those whom the Law had shut out. The outcasts even the gentiles. It is important for us to understand that Jesus did wonderful miracles, but is it just as important to understand what those miracles were saying. So, in a fully consummated kingdom we know that we have God and He has us.

This was the heart of the maturity the church was attaining to in the transitional period. They were seeing dimly, but would see face to face. We see this also in John’s writings. What is the earmark of the father (mature one I John 2:12-14) in Christ? He knows the Father.

I believe this simple truth helps us understand what to expect of the kingdom in our lives. Very simply the outward demonstration of the kingdom is love. That is where we end up. This is the proof that we know God.

When the Lord replaced the righteousness of man with the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, he removed every obstacle to love’s fullness. Perfect love had cast out fear in humanity’s relationship with God.

However, that was only the half of it. By giving the worth of Christ to all, He took away every obstacle that kept us from loving our neighbor. How can we hate our neighbor when hating him has become hating Christ?

Now, here is a philosophical question. Can love find its full glory in a perfect world? If everybody is lovable, what glory is there in loving? As Jesus said, even the sinners love those who love them. It is a good thing to love those who love us, but is an even greater power and demonstration of the kingdom found in loving our enemies? What do you all think?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

yeshuasavedme,

Let me ask you a question.

Who is the we in Genesis - when God says in Genesis 1:26?

"26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...."

Also which version/s of the Bible do you use?

Thank you,
Snashin

I use the AV and the KJV and the original transcripts from the Greek & Hebrew with concordances from www.blueletterbible.org .
'Us' is the ONE YHWH of hosts, the One Being who is eternally self existent in three Persons: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: the second Person of the Same is come in New Man human flesh forever, to be the Firstborn human and only begotten of the Father who inherits this very earth that was the kingdom prepared for Adam and 'ben Adam', as their home to inhabit forever -before the rebellion of the first Adam brought death and corruption into this world.
The declaration to the serpent in Genesis 3:15 was that the Seed of the woman would crush the head =the authority, of the serpent (that the serpent gained the very moment that Adam yielded to him in willfull rebellion), over this kingdom that was Adam's.

Death entered this kingdom that very moment, but the plan for the redemption had been made from the foundation of the world, for the Creator knew all things before He brought anything into being, of all that would be in His creation; and in the fullness of time the Redeemer came in the likeness of sinful flesh but without sin, not in Adam, to be our legal Kinsman-Redeemer to ransom the kingdom and 'marry' the barrren widow of His only human brother and to bring the many sons to glory, by the cleansing and adoption, that the Creator sought when He made Adam one spirit, male and female, for the multiplying of the human 'being' as the house for the habitation of the glory of the presence of the Living Spirit, forever.

 

[Hidden Manna]

the second Person of the Same is come in New Man human flesh forever, to be the Firstborn human and only begotten of the Father who inherits this very earth that was the kingdom prepared for Adam and 'ben Adam', as their home to inhabit forever -before the rebellion of the first Adam brought death and corruption into this world.

How then do you take the scriptures below in the light of what you said above, because they say the exact opposite ?

42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. [The body] is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. * 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. * 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. * 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam [became] a life-giving spirit. * 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. * 47 The first man [was] of the earth, [made] of dust; the second Man [is] the Lord from heaven. * 48 As [was] the [man] of dust, so also [are] those [who are made] of dust; and as [is] the heavenly [Man,] so also [are] those [who are] heavenly. * 49 And as we have borne the image of the [man] of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly [Man.] * 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

John 18:36
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

 

[yeshuasavedme]

How then do you take the scriptures below in the light of what you said above, because they say the exact opposite ?
...

John 18:36
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

Only to a preterist do they say the opposite, who does not take the Word of God as the absolute guide and believe all that is written as it is written.
Jesus' kingdom is not now of this age: -the age ends, the wicked pass away, and the Messianic reign, "the times of refreshing" will begin; when He returns as the Son of Man -the human King of all the earth -to reign over His purchased possession as the Firstborn for the Sabbath rest of this present creation.


John 18:33; Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world [age]: if my kingdom were of this world [age], then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
now: nun; a primary particle of present time 1) at this time, the present, now
-from www.blueletterbible.org


Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. =coming to this earth as son of Man, to rule His possession in Person as the glory of God returned to the temple Ezekiel saw.
Jesus’ servants will fight when He comes to destroy the armies of the beast and comes to take His great power and reign over His purchased kingdom =this present earth.
He taught us to pray, “…Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven”.

He also taught us, who make mention of YHWH, to not give Him rest until He establish Jerusalem a praise in the earth;

Isaiah 62:6,7; I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, [which] shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence, And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
He's coming soon!