Was 911 an inside job?

[Tamara224]

Beloved sister Tamara,
Are you a disciple of Jesus Christ?

Yes.

Average

every day people do not get elected or appointed to government office.

Whatever dude... maybe it's different in your state, but I see my governor at restaurants, the grocery store and parties all the time - He's a normal guy. I recognize that I come from a small state... but I have met and conversed with my Senators and Representative and they are normal everyday people.

Anyway, I'm not necessarily talking about government office when I say bureaucracy... Most people in this country have no idea how big the federal government really is. Millions of people work for the government in bureaucratic functions who were not elected. Millions of everyday, average people. They are the cogs that actually run the machine that is the Federal government. Don't believe me? Check out how many non-elected people work for any government agency... From the DOD down to the BLM, and everything in between, like the IRS.

No matter how good and comfortable a material life you and I have had here in the United States, our Government has a history of fraud and deception since the Constitution was writen.

Did I say our country was all good? I just don't think it's made up of a bunch of evil war-mongering people bent on world domination. Some of them most likely are, but the vast majority of government workers are not.

We are calledd to follow no man except Jesus. Every political icon has feet of clay.

I don't follow anyone but Jesus... but I do obey the government...

Romans 13:1-7​

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.​

Matthew 20:21​

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."​

As disciples we war not against flesh and blood, but against POWERS, Principlaities, the RULERS OF THE DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD, and SPIRITIAL WICKEDNESS in high places.

I agree... which is why I think that if there's a conspiracy, it's headed by someone (something) other than GWB. And for the most part, the poor shmos who work in government are entirely unaware of the evil conspiracy.

9/11 was used by our president to make war on IRAQ who had nothing to do with 0/11.

I disagree... I think there is good cause to believe Hussein is intimately connected with the terrorist networks and that our national security was at risk.

Gangesters rule the United States Government and very few say anything about it because they are afraid they will lose their Job, credit, be imprisoned or killed.

Sorry, that's just funny! Ridiculously funny... Very few say anything about it?! Puu-lease.

You're saying something about it now... are there jackboots sounding on your doorstep?

There are probably millions of websites where people are claiming cook conspiracy theories about how GWB is the devil. Amazingly, even though those people think the government is watching their every email no one has been arrested for their quack claims yet. I wonder what their secret is? How have they managed to evade the thought-police?

There are books and books and books claiming how evil our government is... Funny thing, those authors and publishers sit back raking in the dough and none of them have been arrested yet.

The mainstream media knocks President Bush on a daily basis... Tell me, how have they escaped imprisonment?

 

[Tamara224]

Who's the conspiracy theorist now...

But seriously... there's no conspiracy involved in that one. I was here and paying attention during the lead-up to war with Iraq. Everyone, absolutely everyone, believed that Iraq had WMDs. The UN and all other countries believed Hussein had them, Hussein kept hinting that he had them.

Then, a little while later, the media starts saying that Bush lied to us about that. Well, Bush didn't lie about it... we were all misinformed.

 

[NumberOneSon]

how much red tape, bureocracy and normal people did it involve to convince everyone that Sadam Hussain had weapons of mass destruction, when the opposite was the case?

Every intellegence agency in the world believed Saddam had WMD's. And Saddam did everything he could to make the world believe he did.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[gwynedd1]

But seriously... there's no conspiracy involved in that one. I was here and paying attention during the lead-up to war with Iraq. Everyone, absolutely everyone, believed that Iraq had WMDs. The UN and all other countries believed Hussein had them, Hussein kept hinting that he had them.

Then, a little while later, the media starts saying that Bush lied to us about that. Well, Bush didn't lie about it... we were all misinformed.

For example:

David Kelly kills himself with a dull knife the day after providing evidence to the Intelligence security committee. If I deal in probabilities instead of blind optimism then I would need to become suspicious.

http://mediacloisters.vassar.edu:9080/newspirits/1896/Themes/morganbonds.html
http://www.boondocksnet.com/cartoons/mcc234.html
http://www.boondocksnet.com/cartoons/mcc241.html

This was a 100 years ago before the depression after which even more wealth was concentrated.. People knew then because ironically they had not controlled the press and yet lacked the power such people have today. Now, I am to believe that they either went broke or found a way to hide their wealth by buying those things that would expose them. What would you do? You are wealthy and waves of populist outrage lap at the shores of your empire. You would not buy the weather that calms the ocean? What is more probable?

Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope documented much of this. It is not reasonable to just assume that things have turned out so well with out consideration. Even our own mythologies have us barely escaping fascism in WWII. Are we so sure that the anglophile network has not found a more subtle way?

 

[NumberOneSon]

Average every day people do not get elected or appointed to government office.

Abraham Lincoln was pretty average. Born into an insignificant family. Lack of formal education (no 'Skull and Bones' for him). He was elected numerous times to various offices, and he was as average as you could get.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[icedtea]

He was above average, I say!
And Ralph Nader was born to poor immigrant parents.

 

[plum]

my favourite video that made me rethink the whole issue...

just in case someone hasn't watched it yet:
"Loose Change: Second Edition"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&hl=en

I can't wait for the final cut to come out next year.

even though i want lots of their claims to be even more backed up... I have never had the chance to think about it until now in regards to science especially.

very fascinating.

 

[gwynedd1]

But seriously... there's no conspiracy involved in that one. I was here and paying attention during the lead-up to war with Iraq. Everyone, absolutely everyone, believed that Iraq had WMDs. The UN and all other countries believed Hussein had them, Hussein kept hinting that he had them.

Then, a little while later, the media starts saying that Bush lied to us about that. Well, Bush didn't lie about it... we were all misinformed.

my favourite video that made me rethink the whole issue...

just in case someone hasn't watched it yet:
"Loose Change: Second Edition"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&hl=en

I can't wait for the final cut to come out next year.

even though i want lots of their claims to be even more backed up... I have never had the chance to think about it until now in regards to science especially.

very fascinating.

You may also find Money Masters interesting. The concentration of power is what makes some of the hard to believe, believable.

Text
http://reactor-core.org/money-changers.html

Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4991544789166784731&q=Money+Masters

 

[NumberOneSon]

He was above average, I say!

From a social/economic standpoint, he was quite average. Even disadvantaged, in fact. He wasn't born into the same influential circles that Bush or Carey were born into. I know some very intelligent people who are average joes.

And Ralph Nader was born to poor immigrant parents.

Right, and he hasn't been elected to anything. So he is average (according to Daniel's litmus test, anyway).

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[icedtea]

From a social/economic standpoint, he was quite average. Even disadvantaged, in fact. He wasn't born into the same influential circles that Bush or Carey were born into. I know some very intelligent people who are average joes.


Right, and he hasn't been elected to anything. So he is average (according to Daniel's litmus test, anyway).

In Christ,

Acts6:5

Not for lack of effort on My part!

 

[Gukkor]

"just in case someone hasn't watched it yet:
'Loose Change: Second Edition'"

I believe the link I provided earlier provided a pretty strong common-sense argument against the accuracy of Loose Change. And again, if you haven't seen it yet, the guy's harsh to say the least, so don't say I didn't warn you.

 

[gwynedd1]

"just in case someone hasn't watched it yet:
'Loose Change: Second Edition'"

I believe the link I provided earlier provided a pretty strong common-sense argument against the accuracy of Loose Change. And again, if you haven't seen it yet, the guy's harsh to say the least, so don't say I didn't warn you.

Actually I thought is was poor all around. The first comment about why the Loose Change creators would be alive is simple. Martyrdom. Killing them would reinforce the argument. That is poor sense.
The dollar bill folding is irrelavent.

As to 5000 people needing to know? Why would that be? Far fewer I figure. Need to know, bribing and blackmail have woked wonders for drug cartels and the mob. Do you suppose that everyone would need to know the extent of 9/11? Naturally after the event they are on the hook entirely after the event.

I also regret to say that it is a sign of advanced stages of corruption. The consolidation of absolute power happened in the 1930s. It is not so difficult. Politicians are selected early on and their funding and press coverage largely come from relatively few sources. I can image that those they have blackmailed even before their office are selected. Woodrow Wilson was blackmailed over an affair. They may use far worse.

 

[Micahyah]

Christian theologion and author of 4 books on 9/11 featured in big Washington Post story:

9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply
Many Americans suspect U.S. government involvement or complicity
The Washington Post, 9/8/06

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/

NEW YORK - He felt no shiver of doubt in those first terrible hours.

He watched the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and assumed al-Qaeda had wreaked terrible vengeance. He listened to anchors and military experts and assumed the facts of Sept. 11, 2001, were as stated on the screen.

It was a year before David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher, began his stroll down the path of disbelief. He wondered why Bush listened to a child's story while the nation was attacked and how Osama bin Laden, America's Public Enemy No. 1, escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora.

He wondered why 110-story towers crashed and military jets failed to intercept even one airliner. He read the 9/11 Commission report with a swell of anger. Contradictions were ignored and no military or civilian official was reprimanded, much less cashiered.

"To me, the report read as a cartoon." White-haired and courtly, Griffin sits on a couch in a hotel lobby in Manhattan, unspooling words in that reasonable Presbyterian minister's voice. "It's a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives." [...]

 

[Tonks]

The fact that this is not 100% "NO" is not surprising...but it is quite sad.

 

[Driver]

Here's another video on 9/11, which focuses on the World Trade Center collapses, eyewitness testimony, and the major issues that have been raised by Scholars for 911 Truth.

http://www.911revisited.com/video.html

Google Video version:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4194796183168750014&q=september+11+revisited&hl=en

 

[icedtea]

The fact that this is not 100% "NO" is not surprising...but it is quite sad.

The reason it is not 100% no, is because way too many things do not add up and people are finally waking up and thinking clearly for the first time.

 

[djbcrawford]

But seriously... there's no conspiracy involved in that one. I was here and paying attention during the lead-up to war with Iraq. Everyone, absolutely everyone, believed that Iraq had WMDs. The UN and all other countries believed Hussein had them, Hussein kept hinting that he had them.

Then, a little while later, the media starts saying that Bush lied to us about that. Well, Bush didn't lie about it... we were all misinformed.

The UN had been carrying out weapons inspections and hadn't found any. It didn't give approval for the war and Bush/Blair went ahead anyway. In Britain, it turned out the evidence for WMD had been re-written in language to make it more believable ("sexed up") and part of it was a college thesis some kid had put on the internet.

The majority of public opinion in Britain is that we were lied to at the time for the sole purpose of going to war.

 

[NumberOneSon]

The UN had been carrying out weapons inspections and hadn't found any.

But secession of hostilities from the Gulf war was dependent on Saddam adhering to UN resolutions, and he purposefully violated over 16 of them. You said the UN didn’t find any WMD’s, but Saddam refused to adhere to UN resolutions 707 and 715, which demanded immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to inspection areas, and he refused to cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors.

It didn't give approval for the war and Bush/Blair went ahead anyway.

That’s because the UN isn’t willing to enforce the resolutions they draft. It’s like a school board who admonishes a bully for beating up students. The board threatens to suspend the bully if he doesn’t adhere to school policies, but the bully keeps beating up students while the board refuses to issue a suspension. Punishment for the bully is fully justified but the board isn't willing to enforce it's own rules.

And it’s no surprise the UN didn’t approve because several UN officials have been accused of taking oil bribes from Saddam through the Oil for Food program. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

In Britain, it turned out the evidence for WMD had been re-written in language to make it more believable ("sexed up") and part of it was a college thesis some kid had put on the internet.

If that’s true, then the trumped up evidence is inexcusable. But the reality is the US and Britain had every right to resume hostilities against Saddam, even without the trumped up evidence, because Saddam had been violating UN resolutions for over a decade and the UN refused to take action against him. Is it any wonder the UN passes resolution after resolution against N. Korea and Iran, and those two countries just laugh and ignore them?

The majority of public opinion in Britain is that we were lied to at the time for the sole purpose of going to war.

Regardless of public opinion, nations within the UN had every right to enforce the resolutions Saddam flagrantly disobeyed. The UN has proven over and over again that it isn’t willing to do it’s job.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[gwynedd1]

The fact that this is not 100% "NO" is not surprising...but it is quite sad.

But secession of hostilities from the Gulf war was dependent on Saddam adhering to UN resolutions, and he purposefully violated over 16 of them. You said the UN didn’t find any WMD’s, but Saddam refused to adhere to UN resolutions 707 and 715, which demanded immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to inspection areas, and he refused to cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors.



That’s because the UN isn’t willing to enforce the resolutions they draft. It’s like a school board who admonishes a bully for beating up students. The board threatens to suspend the bully if he doesn’t adhere to school policies, but the bully keeps beating up students while the board refuses to issue a suspension.

And it’s no surprise the UN didn’t approve because several UN officials have been accused of taking oil bribes from Saddam through the Oil for Food program. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you.



If that’s true, then the trumped up evidence is inexcusable. But the reality is the US and Britain had every right to resume hostilities against Saddam, even without the trumped up evidence, because Saddam had been violating UN resolutions for over a decade and the UN refused to take action against him. Is it any wonder the UN passes resolution after resolution against N. Korea and Iran, and those two countries just laugh and ignore them?



Regardless of public opinion, nations within the UN had every right to enforce the resolutions Saddam flagrantly disobeyed. The UN has proven over and over again that it isn’t willing to do it’s job.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

This ignores the the question of UN legitimacy from the outset. There is a US hypocrisy is there not? Veto and nuclear power? Israel has violated countless resolutions that are vetoed. Selective enforcement is not legal in this country anyway.

 

[NumberOneSon]

This ignores the the question of UN legitimacy from the outset. There is a US hypocrisy is there not? Veto and nuclear power? Israel has violated countless resolutions that are vetoed. Selective enforcement is not legal in this country anyway.

Sure, I'll agree that it is hypocritical. Ignoring Israel's violations underscores that the UN is pretty much a hollowed out shell, having no real legitimacy as an organization because it is unwilling to enforce the resolutions they pass.

In Christ,

Acts6:5