want to talk about OSAS?

Are you an OSAS believer?

  • yes

    Votes: 27 43.5%
  • no

    Votes: 32 51.6%
  • of course

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Total voters
    62

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Let me clarify my original post. OSAS is about Jesus dying on the cross to take all of our sins on Himself for an eternity. We can never lose what he did for us EXCEPT through our own rejection of him. That is minimal in the Christian world.
I also believe we can restore our salvation for as many times as it takes but that has nothing to do with osas.? Or does it

Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ and eternal life is not a super power or a magical wish granted to a person by God.

1 Timothy 6:15-16

15 “…the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”​

We have to abide in the Son in order to have life (i.e. eternal life).

1 John 5:12

He that hath the Son hath life;
and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life
.”​

The assurance in how we can know that we truly know the Lord (or abide in Him) is if we find that we are keeping His commandments. For the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them.

1 John 2:3-4

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
There are also many warnings in Scripture about how sin can destroy our souls, as well. What do you do with verses like Matthew 5:28-30 and Matthew 6:15?
 
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Thanks everyone for your input.
Happy New year!!

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Luke 8:11-15
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19-20).


In fact, the great grace teacher, the apostle Paul taught against Eternal Security. For Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).
 
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When I read the Bible I try not read more into it than it really says. It's so easy for us to do that, that was why I posted concerning John 8:11. It was a thought that got stuck with me. It's good you brought John 5:14 to attention where it seems clear it's in the general sense.

I just re-read John 8, and I still do not see Jesus as referring to her one time sin of adultery alone, brother. First, if that was the case, then why didn’t Jesus say, “go and do not commit adultery anymore?” Jesus actually said, “go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11) which can be read in the generic sense, as well (like John 5:14). Second, adultery is being unfaithful sexually while you are married. So logic dictates that she most likely could have also lied at times to her husband to cover up her unfaithfulness in committing adultery. Jesus would have of course known about all of this because He was aware of another women’s unfaithfulness in whom he talked with at a special well in John chapter 4.

You said:
A good question is if Jesus knew everything while being here, or if it was more of all knowledge being available to him. I know that is something for another thread. You don't really need to know exactly what sins a person is involved in for you to tell them to stop living in sin. It covers all of it ... but sure Jesus knew.

I believe Jesus knew more than we think He did in that situation because Jesus is the Son of God. For example:

What did Jesus write on the ground in John 8?

John 4:14 says,

"...the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."​

John 7:37-39 says,

37 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"​

This relates. We can know what Jesus was writing in the ground when the Jews tested him in regards to the woman caught in the act of adultery by looking at other Scripture. By Scripture, we see a reference to the LORD [Jesus], the fountain of living waters [the Holy Spirit].

Jeremiah 17:13 says,

"O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD [i.e. Jesus], the fountain of living waters [i.e. the Holy Ghost]."​

Note 1: The words in brackets in light blue (above) is my commentary to the text.

Note 2: Words in bright red are references to the Holy Spirit. Words in green is in reference to the Tree of Life, the door (wood, tree), who is Jesus.

Note 3: In the words in the above verse, you will notice that they (the Jews) that were accusing Jesus in regards to the woman caught in the act of adultery, their names were written down in the earth. This is what Jesus was writing in the Earth. Jesus was writing down the names of those who had forsaken the Lord. I highlighted the words in purple above in Jeremiah to show that their names written in the earth as we behold in the scene in John 8.

Note 4: We tie this together because of the words, "the LORD, the fountain of living waters" in Jeremiah 17:13 is tied to John 7:38 that says, "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

Again, John 7:38 says,

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."​

Here is the scene with Jesus writing in the ground with the Jews in regards to the woman caught in the act of adultery:

John 8:4-6 says,

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. "​

What is interesting is that the very previous chapter (John 7), we are told that anyone who believes in Jesus out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Yet, in Jeremiah 17:13, we learn that this fountain of living waters is what these Jews rejected and their names were written in the ground because they forsaken the Lord.

You said:
God bless you Bible Highlighter!

Thank you. May the Lord God bless you greatly, Zoidar.
May you always stay close to the Lord and be strong in the power of His might (even if we may disagree on the finer nuances of Scripture).
 
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SkyWriting

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Jesus is GOD (John 1:1-2, 1 John 5:7, John 1:14, 1 Timothy 3:16, Colossians 1:13-16, Micah 5:2). Remember how Jesus knew all about the woman at the well in John 4? So Jesus would have known all about her life and the lives of others. I don’t think adultery was the only sin in her life for Him to make that kind of statement so to only refer to her sin of adultery alone because no doubt she would be in some kind of other sin if she was committing adultery. I also think your older statement (from your previous post yesterday) makes it seem like every other sin is okay as long as it is not adultery (Note: It may not have been your intention but it could be viewed that way). Granted, seeing that you have now clarified that this is not the case, I am not sure why you would think that it was this one sin alone. Now, if Jesus was only a limited human being alone and not God, then I could see how you can come away with this conclusion, but Jesus is GOD and He knew about the lives of others and He is one with the Father (John 10:30). We have to also know that God is always one step ahead of us (Psalms 139:2-6) (Job 14:5). God is holy (1 Peter 1:16). God always wants man to be within His will. God would have made sure that there was no way that we can come away with thinking the wrong thing on what our Lord Jesus said so as to even remotely lead a person down the wrong path of sin. So Scripture (Written by men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - 1 Timothy 3:16) recording the words of Jesus that say, “sin no more” as we are reading it now would be able to speak to us believers today as being true just as it was back then. Jesus is clearly telling her and us today to “sin no more” in view of not committing any sin that God’s Word attaches with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation before God (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8). So I do not in any way see how our Lord Jesus was only referring to the sin of adultery here because Jesus is God and He would have spoken from the perspective of God knowing the future of what His Father knows because He was one with the Father. For your previous older statement (yesterday) could lead a person to think that one could commit other sins as long as it was not adultery (even if that was not your intention). Besides, Jesus told another to “sin no more” in John 5:14 (and basically using other words warned that a worse thing could come upon him if he did not stop). In fact, Jesus did not specify the kind of sin he committed in John 5:14. So John 8:11 is merely a double witness in Scripture confirming this same truth.

Side Note:

As for my use of the term called: “mortal sin”: Well, I did not invent the term. In fact, while I don’t like this term because it is tied to a particular church that I do not agree with in regards to their doctrines and practices, I only use it sometimes so as to save time in having to explain it in more words that I don’t have to. For the phrase “mortal sin” is the only term I found that is the most clear so as to help people to come on to the same page as me on this particular topic. For I also use this term for clarity because “Sinless Perfection” is not allowed to be discussed in most (not all) sections of the Christian forums. But I focus on how preaching how we believers need to overcome mortal sin in this life because it is a part of the Sanctification Process in living a holy life by the Spirit (Which is a part of the secondary phase or step in God’s plan of salvation for us believers after we initially or first saved by God’s grace through faith in Jesus without the deeds of the Law - Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:13, John 3:16). For clarity of the different aspects of salvation within Scripture, check out my post in this CF thread here.

May God bless you, and I hope your day is good in the Lord.


The only "Mortal Sin" is unbelief. This is the one sin that cannot be forgiven and leads to death.
 
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The only "Mortal Sin" is unbelief. This is the one sin that cannot be forgiven and leads to death.

So then what do you do with Jesus warning others about one’s body being cast into hellfire for looking upon a woman in lust? Was that just a useless scare tactic? See Matthew 5:28-30.
 
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SkyWriting

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So then what do you do with Jesus warning others about one’s body being cast into hellfire for looking upon a woman in lust? Was that just a useless scare tactic? See Matthew 5:28-30.
Any sin that is repented of may be forgiven. Hence the purpose of the warning.

But it is not possible to request forgiveness and at the same time not believe
that God is qualified to forgive. This is the the point where man's salvation
teeters on, is accepting that Jesus was an adequate payment for all our sins.
We cannot be forgiven unless we first have faith. Lacking faith is the one sin
that leads to death.

The rest of those "Mortal sins" are the same as any sin. There just wasn't enough ink in the writers pen to list all sins.


1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
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Is that the same as Jesus dying on the cross for our sins? I don't think so. Your talking your personal steps to salvation.. your actions to be saved.
Jesus died on the cross for my sins whether I believe it or not. I don't understand your question.
 
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OSAS is clearly one of the biggest false doctrines in the church today. There are too many warnings in Scripture to suggest that it is even remotely true. Supposed Eternal Security verses are taken out of context to the rest of the Bible to make it fit or work. The whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation is about how we have free will to choose either God and His good ways, or our own unbiblical version of God, and sin, and that choice is what determines our fate or end result. OSAS in my view is an excuse to sin on some level in most cases.
Wow. You know every Christian, their motivations and beliefs. I don't think so. The problem is that you do not know what salvation means.

Real Christians are those who are born again. They were dead but God makes them alive. They have eternal life. How can eternal life not be eternal? How can a person born again be unborn again? We are born again of an imperishable seed - 1 Peter 1:23. The life that the Lord Jesus gives is indestructible (Hebrews 7:16).

Those who are born again can and should be more and more outwardly what God has made them to be inwardly. Some Christians do not make much progress. Others are full on from day one. Most of us are somewhere in between. There are many reasons for this and this is not the place to go over them.

You should keep in mind that the word "Christian" is claimed by many who are not recognised by God. It's compounded by the refusal of many churches to restrict meetings to believers. Don't expect Christian behaviour from make believers.

The issue once a person is born again is rewards. Those who give up their selfish lives in this world will gain much in the next. Those who hold onto their self will and self centred ways will suffer loss in the next.
 
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zoidar

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I just re-read John 8, and I still do not see Jesus as referring to her one time sin of adultery alone, brother. First, if that was the case, then why didn’t Jesus say, “go and do not commit adultery anymore?” Jesus actually said, “go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11) which can be read in the generic sense, as well (like John 5:14). Second, adultery is being unfaithful sexually while you are married. So logic dictates that she most likely could have also lied at times to her husband to cover up her unfaithfulness in committing adultery. Jesus would have of course known about all of this because He was aware of another women’s unfaithfulness in whom he talked with at a special well in John chapter 4.



I believe Jesus knew more than we think He did in that situation because Jesus is the Son of God. For example:

What did Jesus write on the ground in John 8?

John 4:14 says,

"...the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."​

John 7:37-39 says,

37 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"​

This relates. We can know what Jesus was writing in the ground when the Jews tested him in regards to the woman caught in the act of adultery by looking at other Scripture. By Scripture, we see a reference to the LORD [Jesus], the fountain of living waters [the Holy Spirit].

Jeremiah 17:13 says,

"O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD [i.e. Jesus], the fountain of living waters [i.e. the Holy Ghost]."​

Note 1: The words in brackets in light blue (above) is my commentary to the text.

Note 2: Words in bright red are references to the Holy Spirit. Words in green is in reference to the Tree of Life, the door (wood, tree), who is Jesus.

Note 3: In the words in the above verse, you will notice that they (the Jews) that were accusing Jesus in regards to the woman caught in the act of adultery, their names were written down in the earth. This is what Jesus was writing in the Earth. Jesus was writing down the names of those who had forsaken the Lord. I highlighted the words in purple above in Jeremiah to show that their names written in the earth as we behold in the scene in John 8.

Note 4: We tie this together because of the words, "the LORD, the fountain of living waters" in Jeremiah 17:13 is tied to John 7:38 that says, "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

Again, John 7:38 says,

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."​

Here is the scene with Jesus writing in the ground with the Jews in regards to the woman caught in the act of adultery:

John 8:4-6 says,

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. "​

What is interesting is that the very previous chapter (John 7), we are told that anyone who believes in Jesus out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Yet, in Jeremiah 17:13, we learn that this fountain of living waters is what these Jews rejected and their names were written in the ground because they forsaken the Lord.



Thank you. May the Lord God bless you greatly, Zoidar.
May you always stay close to the Lord and be strong in the power of His might (even if we may disagree on the finer nuances of Scripture).

I won't say much more than I think I agree with you on John 5 and 8 about being generic. See you around! Thanks for the blessing!
 
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Any sin that is repented of may be forgiven. Hence the purpose of the warning.

But it is not possible to request forgiveness and at the same time not believe
that God is qualified to forgive. This is the the point where man's salvation
teeters on, is accepting that Jesus was an adequate payment for all our sins.
We cannot be forgiven unless we first have faith. Lacking faith is the one sin
that leads to death.

However, the Bible only teaches past sin is forgiven.

The Bible teaches only past sins are forgiven us (not future sins).

The Bible also teaches that we must confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy, as well (See: Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 1:7).
 
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Wow. You know every Christian, their motivations and beliefs. I don't think so. The problem is that you do not know what salvation means.

OSAS is not a new discussion for me, and most I have talked with believe they can sin and still be saved on some level. For example: Most Christians I talked with believe that the prodigal son was still saved while he was prodigal (i.e. living it up with prostitutes).

You said:
Real Christians are those who are born again. They were dead but God makes them alive. They have eternal life. How can eternal life not be eternal? How can a person born again be unborn again? We are born again of an imperishable seed - 1 Peter 1:23. The life that the Lord Jesus gives is indestructible (Hebrews 7:16).

This is what I am talking about. If you believe you cannot be unborn and you teach that, then someone will no doubt think they can lie and or do some sort of sin with the thinking they are still saved all because they have a belief alone in Jesus. Anyways, the idea of unborn is a straw man argument. A person may not become unborn in real life, but they can die. The Bible talks about how the wages of sin is death. So if a believer goes back to their sin, they will die spiritually.

You said:
Those who are born again can and should be more and more outwardly what God has made them to be inwardly. Some Christians do not make much progress. Others are full on from day one. Most of us are somewhere in between. There are many reasons for this and this is not the place to go over them.

You should keep in mind that the word "Christian" is claimed by many who are not recognised by God. It's compounded by the refusal of many churches to restrict meetings to believers. Don't expect Christian behaviour from make believers.

The issue once a person is born again is rewards. Those who give up their selfish lives in this world will gain much in the next. Those who hold onto their self will and self centred ways will suffer loss in the next.

In regards to the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:

Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
 
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OSAS is not a new discussion for me, and most I have talked with believe they can sin and still be saved on some level. For example: Most Christians I talked with believe that the prodigal son was still saved while he was prodigal (i.e. living it up with prostitutes).



This is what I am talking about. If you believe you cannot be unborn and you teach that, then someone will no doubt think they can lie and or do some sort of sin with the thinking they are still saved all because they have a belief alone in Jesus. Anyways, the idea of unborn is a straw man argument. A person may not become unborn in real life, but they can die. The Bible talks about how the wages of sin is death. So if a believer goes back to their sin, they will die spiritually.



In regards to the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:

Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
I'm not saying that people should be told they can sin with impunity. There is the principle of sowing and reaping. Your attitude to believers, frankly, stinks. You seem to think that Christians have to be threatened and bludgeoned into behaving. It is just not true.

One of the characteristics of real Christians is that they hate sin. I've read many posts from Christians bemoaning their inability to overcome. You would consign them to hell because they are not as well behaved as you. Be warned. You will be judged as harshly as you judge others. Those who think they stand need to watch out in case they fall.

New Christians may not know what is acceptable to God and what is not. Someone needs to show them. God's word is a great tutor. However, just banging on about how you can't do this and must not do that is not edifying. It is heaping condemnation on people who need help, not to be judged and criticised.

Most of Paul's writings begin with encouragement and with teaching about who we are in Christ and who Christ is in us. Then the issue of right behaviour is brought up. You get it back to front. We live righteously because we are already righteous. We can be holy in practice because we are holy already. Most people don't even know what holiness and righteousness are. They sure won't get any help from you to find out.

If you want me to be unborn again, you will have to go back 2,000 years and stop Lord Jesus from being crucified. You will have to prevent Him from rising again. I will stand before my Saviour relatively soon. I'm 70. I will have nothing to boast about. I will be declaring what Lord Jesus has done for me, not what I've done for him.
 
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Danthemailman

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Those who insist they can earn salvation by their own efforts undermine the foundation of Christianity and render the death of Christ unnecessary.
Amen! Unnecessary or IN-sufficient. Yet Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)
 
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Saint Steven

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I would like to clear it up. As I said on another thread, To me how can you not believe in it? You have to keep being saved over and over again otherwise? So once isn't enough for you? That would seem to say that being saved is meaningless if you can't count on it to stick around.
Any theories, thoughts, etc?
We cannot by an act of our own free will undo what only God can do in the first place.

Even in the rare case of reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours.

So yes, once saved, always saved.
 
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We cannot by an act of our own free will undo what only God can do in the first place.

Even in the rare case of reprobation, it is God's choice, not ours.

So yes, once saved, always saved.
I disagree, we may be in God's book but we can deny him and walk away.
 
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Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ and eternal life not a super power or a magical wish granted to a person by God.

1 Timothy 6:15-16

15 “…the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”​

We have to abide in the Son in order to have life (i.e. eternal life).

1 John 5:12

He that hath the Son hath life;
and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life
.”​

The assurance in how we can know that we truly know the Lord (or abide in Him) is if we find that we are keeping His commandments. For the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them.

1 John 2:3-4

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
There are also many warnings in Scripture about how sin can destroy our souls, as well. What do you do with verses like Matthew 5:28-30 and Matthew 6:15?

"Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ and eternal life not a super power or a magical wish granted to a person by God".
DUH!
This is not your personal a pulpit.
 
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Saint Steven

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I disagree, we may be in God's book but we can deny him and walk away.
I repeat.
We cannot by an act of our own free will undo what only God can do in the first place.

Furthermore...

Matthew 18:12-14 NIV
“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.
 
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I'm not saying that people should be told they can sin with impunity. There is the principle of sowing and reaping. Your attitude to believers, frankly, stinks. You seem to think that Christians have to be threatened and bludgeoned into behaving. It is just not true.

One of the characteristics of real Christians is that they hate sin. I've read many posts from Christians bemoaning their inability to overcome. You would consign them to hell because they are not as well behaved as you. Be warned. You will be judged as harshly as you judge others. Those who think they stand need to watch out in case they fall.

New Christians may not know what is acceptable to God and what is not. Someone needs to show them. God's word is a great tutor. However, just banging on about how you can't do this and must not do that is not edifying. It is heaping condemnation on people who need help, not to be judged and criticised.

Most of Paul's writings begin with encouragement and with teaching about who we are in Christ and who Christ is in us. Then the issue of right behaviour is brought up. You get it back to front. We live righteously because we are already righteous. We can be holy in practice because we are holy already. Most people don't even know what holiness and righteousness are. They sure won't get any help from you to find out.

If you want me to be unborn again, you will have to go back 2,000 years and stop Lord Jesus from being crucified. You will have to prevent Him from rising again. I will stand before my Saviour relatively soon. I'm 70. I will have nothing to boast about. I will be declaring what Lord Jesus has done for me, not what I've done for him.
You are not born again from Jesus' death on the cross. That's a personal decision made in steps of repentance.
 
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"Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ and eternal life not a super power or a magical wish granted to a person by God".
DUH!
This is not your personal a pulpit.

It is written:

“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” (Jude 1:3).
 
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