want to talk about OSAS?

Kenny'sID said:

There were no insults, just a description of what you do. I figured if I pointed out that youu often fall off topic, and why you do so, it might help you to realize there is a problem there, and you could work on that...far from an insult. But sometimes people dont take too well too constructive critisism, so nevermind.

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Lets talk scripture.

Jesus is YHWH said:

Lets talk scripture.

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Na, for reasons already mentioned here and elsewhere....not interested

Kenny'sID said:

Na, for reasons already mentioned here and elsewhere....not interested

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Then if you don't want to discuss scripture why are you on a forum ?

And if you refuse to discuss the bible why don't you do us all a favor and quit responding to my posts ?

Jesus is YHWH said:

Then if you don't want to discuss scripture why are you on a forum ?

And if you refuse to discuss the bible why don't you do us all a favor and quit responding to my posts ?

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Huh? This site is not just for discussing scripture, please stop the dishonest comments pretending it is.

You may have the last word, I'm busy not discusing scripture elsewhere and would rather not waste time here trying to help someone who doesnt apreciate it.

Kenny'sID said:

Huh? This site is not just for discussing scripture, please stop the dishonest comments pretending it is.

You may have the last word, I'm busy not discusing scripture elsewhere and would rather not waste time here trying to help someone who doesnt apreciate it.

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Here here!
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1an said:

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The righteous are the elect of God, others will claim to be elect, "still more from among your own selves will arise, and speaking perverse things, will draw away disciples after them."
Acts 20:30​

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I agree that the elect of God is essentially saying to be those who live righteously according to Colossians 3:12. But what Bible translation lists Acts 20:30 as saying the above?

I am just curious, brother. Thanks. May God bless you today.

Jesus is YHWH said:

nice try but OT saints were not born again. more misused and abused scriptures to support the false doctrines of men.

next................................

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The words "circumcision of the heart" is just another way of saying "born again" in the Old Testament.

Quick Review:
Circumcision of the Heart in the Old Testament.
(Which is obviously a spiritual renewal of one's heart):

Deuteronomy 10:16

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked."

Deuteronomy 30:6

"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

Jeremiah 4:4

"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings."

Ezekiel 44:9

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel."

Leviticus 26:41

"And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:."

Jeremiah 9:26

"Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart."

Having A New Heart in the Old Testament:

Ezekiel 11:19

"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh"

Ezekiel 18:31

"Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

Ezekiel 36:26

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."

Circumcision of the Heart in the New Testament:

Acts 7:51

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

Spiritual Circumcision in the New Testament:

Philippians 3:3

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."

Romans 2:28-29

28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Colossians 2:11

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"


Side Note:

Also, here is a clip of John chapter 3 taken from the Gospel of John which is verbatim from the GNT (Good New Translation):


I mention this because Jesus implies in his speech to Nicodemus that he should have known about being born again. This was not a prophecy that Nicodemus should have known about. This was an actual reality for the Old Testament saint that Nicodemus should have been aware of. For Ezekiel 36:26-27 can be read from the perspective of the Israelite during the time of which he lived.

Side Note 2:

I do not believe Jesus looks like a white European. I am only showing this video as a means for demonstrative purposes. I believe Jesus was a Jew and He would have looked Middle Eastern in appearance. But we do not know exactly what our Lord physically looked like while on the Earth. So please do not idolize this actor (by picturing this actor in your mind) as being the real Jesus when you pray and or worship our Lord.

Bible Highlighter said:

I agree that the elect of God is essentially saying to be those who live righteously according to Colossians 3:12. But what Bible translation lists Acts 20:30 as saying the above?

I am just curious, brother. Thanks. May God bless you today.

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From the KJV.
"Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them."

Bible Highlighter said:

Personally, I would clarify that, brother (But that is just me). I would not want to add to what God's Word actually says. I believe we can expound upon what His Word says (like what a preacher or Pastor does), but to re-write what His Word says is dangerous - IMO (Unless you have proof of how the English words used in the KJB can be defined in this way by looking at an English dictionary). I just looked at it, and I do not see how you can get these words out of the KJB with a standard dictionary.

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I told you wrong. Initially I paraphrased it, but then I changed it back. Did you not notice the quotation marks?

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. (Acts 20:30 KJV)

1an said:

orr

I told you wrong. Initially I paraphrased it, but then I changed it back.

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. (Acts 20:30 KJV)

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My apologies. I do now. Thanks brother. I appreciate that.

Bible Highlighter said:

Thanks brother. I appreciate that.

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Acts 20:30 reminds me of the many cults I have spoken to in the past who try to convert people to their own religion.

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. (Acts 20:30 KJV)

Jesus is YHWH said:

nice try but OT saints were not born again. more misused and abused scriptures to support the false doctrines of men.

next................................

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“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.“ (John 3:7-8).

...as in:

26 “But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now.” (Galatians 4:26-29).

Not sure if you caught it. But Isaac (who was born after the Spirit) was persecuted by Ishmael. Pay close attention to verses 28 and 29 above.

Genesis 21:9 says,
“And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.”

Old Testament people were saved by faith (Hebrews 11) the same as now, the only comment that has been added in the New Testament is that we shall know them by their works. Yesterdays conversation by a member of the OSAS brigade was a farce of error.
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Jesus is YHWH said:

how can one dead in sin who hates God and loves sin, a slave to sin choose God since they are in bondage to sin ?

Man by nature is deceitful (Jeremiah 17:9),
Man is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
Man loves darkness (John 3:19),
Man does not seek for God (Romans 3:10-12),
Man is ungodly (Romans 5:6),
Man is dead in his sins (Ephesians 2:1),
Man by nature is a child of wrath (Ephesians 2:3),
Man cannot understand spiritual things (1 Corinthians 2:14),
Man is a slave of sin (Romans 6:16-20)
Man is sinful at birth, sinful from the time of conception (Psalms 51:5)
Man is like a filthy rag his garments stained by sin and is unrighteous ( Isaiah 64:6)
Man is hostile towards God and cannot submit to Him or His law ( Romans 8:7)
Man cannot do good and is completely incapable of such an act ( Romans 3:12)
Man is not born with faith so everything is done in sin ( Romans 14:23)
Man has not one single thing that is good in him ( Romans 7:18)
Man is born condemned ( John 3:18)

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I will still attempt to address these verses in context when I have more time. Maybe on my day off I will have more time to do so (Lord willing).

Anyways, I believe Calvinists (or those who lean towards Calvinistic thinking) are misinterpreting words like “dead” in the Bible. They don't think a dead man can do anything. But Jesus said “Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.” (Matthew 8:22). In other words, the dead would not be able to bury their own dead if the word “dead” meant total inability as some Calvinists claim.

In addition, in the Parable of the Prodigal Son: We can see that the prodigal son was not being forced against his will by the father to come back home, but he went back home and sought forgiveness of his own choice. His father then said he was dead (while he was living in his sins) and now that he came back home and sought forgiveness, he is alive again.

Spiritual deadness seems to be equated with “separateness,” “lostness,” or “in rebellion,” not as “total moral inability to respond.” Likewise, in Romans 6:11, Paul also teaches the believers to count themselves “dead to sin.” A consistent Calvinist would have to interpret this to mean that believers are morally unable to sin when tempted. Of course, that is not the case. Paul is teaching that we are to separate ourselves from sin, in much the same way we were once separated by our sin from God. “Deadness” here connotes the idea of being separated, like the son was from his father, not the incapacitation of the will to respond to God’s appeal to be reconciled from our separation.

Article source used for the last paragraph:
Born Dead?

Bible Highlighter said:

I will still attempt to address these verses in context when I have more time. Maybe on my day off I will have more time to do so (Lord willing).

Anyways, I believe Calvinists (or those who lean towards Calvinistic thinking) are misinterpreting words like “dead” in the Bible. They don't think a dead man can do anything. But Jesus said “Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.” (Matthew 8:22).

In addition, in the Parable of the Prodigal Son: We can see that the prodigal son was not being forced against his will by the father to come back home, but he went back home and sought forgiveness of his own choice. His father then said he was dead (while he was living in his sins) and now that he came back home and sought forgiveness, he is alive again.
“For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry” (Luke 15:24).

Spiritual deadness seems to be equated with “separateness,” “lostness,” or “in rebellion,” not as “total moral inability to respond.” Likewise, in Romans 6:11, Paul also teaches the believers to count themselves “dead to sin.” A consistent Calvinist would have to interpret this to mean that believers are morally unable to sin when tempted. Of course, that is not the case. Paul is teaching that we are to separate ourselves from sin, in much the same way we were once separated by our sin from God. “Deadness” here connotes the idea of being separated, like the son was from his father, not the incapacitation of the will to respond to God’s appeal to be reconciled from our separation.

Article source used for the last paragraph:
Born Dead?

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Dead spiritually. The cults have no idea. They build error upon error. Their foundation is built on shifting sand. Bring them on.
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1an said:

Old Testament people were saved by faith (Hebrews 11) the same as now, the only comment that has been added in the New Testament is that we shall know them by their works. Yesterdays conversation by a member of the OSAS brigade was a farce of error.
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Ezekiel 44:9 says that those who were uncircumcised in heart could not enter the sanctuary. How would one know if they were cicrumcised in heart or not? How could others know if this person was circumcised in heart or not? Truly this is talking about the person who has been changed or regenerated spiritually whereby they would show forth their new and dedicated life to God by their good fruits or deeds (i.e. how they talked and acted in front of others in a truly Godly way).

This is why Jesus appeared to be surprised that Nicodemus did not know about being born again.

1an said:

Dead spiritually. The cults have no idea. They build error upon error. Their foundation is built on shifting sand. Bring them on.
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In addition to showing them the truth with Scripture,
I believe we have to pray for them and be loving and patient with them.

Bible Highlighter said:

Ezekiel 44:9 says that those who were uncircumcised in heart could not enter the sanctuary. How would one know if they were cicrumcised in heart or not? How could others know if this person was circumcised in heart or not? Truly this is talking about the person who has been changed or regenerated spiritually whereby they would show forth their new and dedicated life to God by their good fruits or deeds (i.e. how they talked and acted in front of others in a truly Godly way).

This is why Jesus appeared to be surprised that Nicodemus did not know about being born again.

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Yes. In Jewish tradition the uncircumcised in heart and flesh were the ungodly. As it is on earth so it is in heaven, no ungodly person will be allowed into the Temple of the Lord.
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