want to talk about OSAS?

[Bible Highlighter]

So you think using a modern dictionary you can understand the meaning of a wedding in biblical times ?

You have got to be kidding me...........................

I use a 1913 Webster's Dictionary, and YourDictionary when looking at words in the KJB, and they are both pretty solid to making the whole of the context make sense when running into the challenging words in the KJB. This many times lines up with the Modern Translations (that you appear to favor). I know. I have been doing the study. You are simply just ignoring basic knowledge by saying regular dictionaries are bad. Are you willing to publicly go before a school and announce your denial of the regular dictionary as a trustworthy souce along with expert English teachers who know the dictionary better than you? If so, then I imagine you will embarrass yourself if you did that.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

I appreciate the answer, but it doesn't do anything for a discussion of OSAS, one way or the other, does it?

It does if you let go. Because at that point the question of whether you are saved or not becomes highly relevant.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You really do need to read a modern English Dictionary. Even in Biblical times a wedding had nothing to do with accepting and receiving.

Actually you don't need a dictionary for that, you just need common sense.

You completely missed the point as wedding today has a completely different meaning from that in biblical times.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is correct. Receive and Accept are synonyms.

ACCEPT G588
apodechomai
ap-od-ekh'-om-ahee
From G575 and G1209; to take fully, that is, welcome (persons), approve (things): - accept, receive (gladly).
Total KJV occurrences: 6

Luk 8:40 And it came to pass, that, when Jesus was returned, the people gladly received G588 him: for they were all waiting for him.

Act 24:3 We accept G588 it always, and in all places, most noble Felix, with all thankfulness.
.

Well said brother. Thank you.

 

[chad kincham]

I would like to clear it up. As I said on another thread, To me how can you not believe in it? You have to keep being saved over and over again otherwise? So once isn't enough for you? That would seem to say that being saved is meaningless if you can't count on it to stick around.
Any theories, thoughts, etc?

The prodigal son.

In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, thus the son represents believers who are Gods adopted sons.

He’s already a son when the story starts.

He leaves the father to live in sin

When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN.

He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.

How then was he dead?

He was dead in his sins, per Ephesians 2:5.

He was a son, became dead in his sins, came back to the father, and became alive AGAIN.

A believer can backslide into a life of sin, and if they do that, they do not remain in Christ, and if they repent and come back to the Father, they are saved again, just as the prodigal son did in the story told by Jesus.

 

[chad kincham]

I would like to clear it up. As I said on another thread, To me how can you not believe in it? You have to keep being saved over and over again otherwise? So once isn't enough for you? That would seem to say that being saved is meaningless if you can't count on it to stick around.
Any theories, thoughts, etc?

The prodigal son.

In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, thus the son represents believers who are Gods adopted sons.

He’s already a son when the story starts.

He leaves the father to live in sin

When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN.

He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.

How then was he dead?

He was dead in his sins.

I would like to clear it up. As I said on another thread, To me how can you not believe in it? You have to keep being saved over and over again otherwise? So once isn't enough for you? That would seem to say that being saved is meaningless if you can't count on it to stick around.
Any theories, thoughts, etc?

 

[chad kincham]

Your salvation comes from your heart believing the gospel. The sonship cant be lost, we are seal with the holy ghost. People who dont believe in OSAS diminish the finish work of the cross, and seek their own works instead of grace and mercy.

Wrong. Sons can be disinherited by their father, and fail to inherit anything as a son, such as failing to inherit everlasting life.
The Bible speaks of salvation as an inheritance.

 

[chad kincham]

Your salvation comes from your heart believing the gospel. The sonship cant be lost, we are seal with the holy ghost. People who dont believe in OSAS diminish the finish work of the cross, and seek their own works instead of grace and mercy.

To be saved, we must repent of our sins - as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19), but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;


So the hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.


Scripture makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.


Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continue to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.


1Jn 1:7 (But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another), and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.


Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).


Having no condemnation, and being in Christ, is conditional upon walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.


And Paul warns us against being deceived about living in sin as a believer, when he wrote:


Gal 6:7 Be Not DECEIVED ; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man SOWETH,that shall he also REAP.


Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; BUT he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting


You reap everlasting life only if you sow to the spirit (walk after the Spirit, Romans 8:1, above, but reap spiritual death if you sow to your flesh.


When we do occasionally sin, we must confess it, for God to forgive it. 1 John 1:9.


The lies of hyper grace are twofold: you don’t need to ever repent after salvation when you sin; and you can’t lose salvation.


This makes grace a license to sin, since sin has no eternal penalty.


Thus if you want a mistress on the side, you can have one, and regularly commit adultery - or if you’re a drunkard you can get drunk every day - you can live a sinful lifestyle with impunity.


I personally know people that are living in sin, and use OSAS as their sinning license, and they get angry if you tell them that Paul warned the brethren in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that living in the sin of drunkenness or adultery, etc, will keep them out of heaven.


In that passage, Paul warns some of the believers that they are defrauding their brethren, (which is stealing, being a thief) then warns them that stealing, and other sins, will keep them from heaven:


1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD and that yourbrethren.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Another warning by Paul, to the saints of God, about living a sinful lifestyle as a child of God:


Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;


Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.


Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.



Being the bride of Christ a covenant marriage, just like the (first covenant) marriage Israel had, and God divorced Israel in Jeremiah 3:8 for spiritual adultery, due to their continual sins.


In earthy marriage we agree to forsake all others and remain wed until death - yet committing adultery breaks the marriage covenant, and their is a divorce, nullifying the “TIL death we part” clause in the covenant.


Adultery nullifies the earthly marriage covenant, and spiritual adultery (sin) nullifies Gods marriage covenant, if there is no repentance.


Anyone who chooses to go back to a sinful lifestyle without repentance, breaks the covenant marriage of Jesus and themselves, and their is no such thing as OSAS.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

You completely missed the point as wedding today has a completely different meaning from that in biblical times.

No, no I think you have missed the point. Nobody in this thread cares about weddings in the first century (they might in another context), the issue in discussion is Once Saved Always Saved, so unless you can make some analogy to Once Married, Always Married, then Jewish weddings have absolutely no relevance in the way the way a word relating to the topic is translated... particularly when the word you are questioning is just a synonym of the word you accept.

If you are going to use the original text, at least use it correctly.

 

[chad kincham]

Hmm not questions I have. And this gets old. Asking about something you don't understand. One has to fully understand what He died. He died for the sin of the world. Its gone.. takes away the sin of the world. No goat running around.. never has to die again.. no reason to. This is not sins as in lust or murder or lying etc. And then knowing the price He had to pay. It really cost God something. One He forever will have those holes and cut on this side.

You live in a time bubble and think salvation is some how governed by the laws with in this world? Then we don't KNOW Him. Never seen Him on His throne in all His glory and power. Never seen upfront Christ in His glory and power.. on and on. So whats the reason for you can walk away? Based on what? I am guessing some feeling or hurt or suffering. Well its not based on what you KNOW about Him. So seems its going to be based on the flesh. And its not of this world.

And how do you undo what only a GOD did? A new spirit.. please share how you undo that.. or give back this "gift" that you can't see hear feel. You look at this by the flesh.. foolishness. How can you leave something you've never known. See being born again born from above..something new was created that was never there. Now part wants to loves to SIN.. yet now something new.. you DON'T want to sin..you want to live holy and please Him.. on and on. <---yet this.. is what you think Salvation is?

For me to ask such questions... would mean I don't know Him. He first loved me.. He knows me. The desire I have with in is always wanting more and more of Him

To be saved, we must repent of our sins - as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19), but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;


So the hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.


Scripture makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.


Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continue to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.


1Jn 1:7 (But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another), and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.


Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).


Having no condemnation, and being in Christ, is conditional upon walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.


And Paul warns us against being deceived about living in sin as a believer, when he wrote:


Gal 6:7 Be Not DECEIVED ; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man SOWETH,that shall he also REAP.


Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; BUT he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting


You reap everlasting life only if you sow to the spirit (walk after the Spirit, Romans 8:1, above, but reap spiritual death if you sow to your flesh.


When we do occasionally sin, we must confess it, for God to forgive it. 1 John 1:9.


The lies of hyper grace are twofold: you don’t need to ever repent after salvation when you sin; and you can’t lose salvation.


This makes grace a license to sin, since sin has no eternal penalty.


Thus if you want a mistress on the side, you can have one, and regularly commit adultery - or if you’re a drunkard you can get drunk every day - you can live a sinful lifestyle with impunity.


I personally know people that are living in sin, and use OSAS as their sinning license, and they get angry if you tell them that Paul warned the brethren in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that living in the sin of drunkenness or adultery, etc, will keep them out of heaven.


In that passage, Paul warns some of the believers that they are defrauding their brethren, (which is stealing, being a thief) then warns them that stealing, and other sins, will keep them from heaven:


1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD and that yourbrethren.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Another warning by Paul, to the saints of God, about living a sinful lifestyle as a child of God:


Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;


Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.


Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.



Being the bride of Christ a covenant marriage, just like the (first covenant) marriage Israel had - and yet God divorced Israel in Jeremiah 3:8 for spiritual adultery, due to their continual sins.


In earthy marriage we agree to forsake all others and remain wed until death - yet committing adultery breaks the marriage covenant, and their is a divorce, nullifying the “TIL death we part” clause in the covenant.


Adultery nullifies the earthly marriage covenant, and spiritual adultery (sin) nullifies Gods marriage covenant, if there is no repentance.


Anyone who chooses to go back to a sinful lifestyle without repentance, breaks the covenant marriage of Jesus and the backslider, and their is no such thing as OSAS.

 

[Albion]

To be saved, we must repent of our sins - as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19), but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:

Repentance and Conversion mean that we have been saved despite our sins.

If a person believes he is saved by "being good" then the idea of being in and out and in and out of God's graces would make sense, but that is contrary to the concept taught in the Bible, i.e. justification by Faith.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

No, no I think you have missed the point. Nobody in this thread cares about weddings in the first century (they might in another context), the issue in discussion is Once Saved Always Saved, so unless you can make some analogy to Once Married, Always Married, then Jewish weddings have absolutely no relevance in the way the way a word relating to the topic is translated... particularly when the word you are questioning is just a synonym of the word you accept.

If you are going to use the original text, at least use it correctly.

no worries

 

[Zao is life]

Your salvation comes from your heart believing the gospel. The sonship cant be lost, we are seal with the holy ghost. People who dont believe in OSAS diminish the finish work of the cross, and seek their own works instead of grace and mercy.

I disagree. Those who have been born of the Spirit through faith in Jesus and regard Him as their Savior must also regard Him as their Lord.

The extent to which I submit myself to Christ is the extent to which He is my Lord.

Luke 6:46-49
"And why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?

Whoever comes to Me and hears My words, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like.
He is like a man who built a house and dug deep and laid the foundation on a rock; and a flood occurring, the stream burst against that house and could not shake it; for it was founded on a rock.

But he who hears and does not perform, is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, on which the stream burst, and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."

Mat 25:11-13
"Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

But he answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you. Therefore watch, for you do not know either the day or the hour in which the Son of man comes."

Luke 13:23-30
"And one said to Him, Lord, are the ones being saved few?

And He said to them, Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able.

And once the Master of the house has risen up and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us, and He shall answer and say to you, I do not know you; from where are you;

then you shall begin to say, We ate and drank in Your presence, and You have taught in our streets. But He shall say, I tell you, I do not know you; from where you are. Depart from Me, all workers of unrighteousness! There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you will see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves being thrust out.

And they will come from the east and the west, and from the north and the south, and will recline in the kingdom of God. And behold, there are last ones which will be first, and there are first ones which will be last."

Mat 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!"

There are statements regarding the book of life:​

Revelation 3:2-6
"Be watchful and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die. For I have not found your works being fulfilled before God. Remember then how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments. And they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. The one who overcomes, that one will be clothed in white clothing. And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

He who has an ear, will hear. How could they have defiled their garments if they had no garments? How can anyone get his name blotted out of the book of life if his name was never in it?

Therefore in my opinion,

1. We are not saved by our works, but by the works of Christ.
2. We can disqualify ourselves by our works.​

 

[Danigt22]

To be saved, we must repent of our sins - as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19), but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;


So the hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.


Scripture makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 above, having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


Will God let His enemies into heaven?


Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


Will God welcome His enemies into heaven?


We are expected and required as believers, to live the most sinless life we can, and to repent when we know we’ve sinned.


Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continue to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


In the two verses below, I put in parentheses the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.


1Jn 1:7 (But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another), and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.


Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit).


Having no condemnation, and being in Christ, is conditional upon walking after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.


And Paul warns us against being deceived about living in sin as a believer, when he wrote:


Gal 6:7 Be Not DECEIVED ; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man SOWETH,that shall he also REAP.


Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; BUT he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting


You reap everlasting life only if you sow to the spirit (walk after the Spirit, Romans 8:1, above, but reap spiritual death if you sow to your flesh.


When we do occasionally sin, we must confess it, for God to forgive it. 1 John 1:9.


The lies of hyper grace are twofold: you don’t need to ever repent after salvation when you sin; and you can’t lose salvation.


This makes grace a license to sin, since sin has no eternal penalty.


Thus if you want a mistress on the side, you can have one, and regularly commit adultery - or if you’re a drunkard you can get drunk every day - you can live a sinful lifestyle with impunity.


I personally know people that are living in sin, and use OSAS as their sinning license, and they get angry if you tell them that Paul warned the brethren in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that living in the sin of drunkenness or adultery, etc, will keep them out of heaven.


In that passage, Paul warns some of the believers that they are defrauding their brethren, (which is stealing, being a thief) then warns them that stealing, and other sins, will keep them from heaven:


1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD and that yourbrethren.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Another warning by Paul, to the saints of God, about living a sinful lifestyle as a child of God:


Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;


Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.


Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.



Being the bride of Christ a covenant marriage, just like the (first covenant) marriage Israel had - and yet God divorced Israel in Jeremiah 3:8 for spiritual adultery, due to their continual sins.


In earthy marriage we agree to forsake all others and remain wed until death - yet committing adultery breaks the marriage covenant, and their is a divorce, nullifying the “TIL death we part” clause in the covenant.


Adultery nullifies the earthly marriage covenant, and spiritual adultery (sin) nullifies Gods marriage covenant, if there is no repentance.


Anyone who chooses to go back to a sinful lifestyle without repentance, breaks the covenant marriage of Jesus and that backslider, and their is no such thing as OSAS.

We preach the judgement seat of christ. Calling us hyper grace is sing you dont understand the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. Dont you know it isnt your works that you should seek, for the sons of the slave will not inherit the kingdom of God. You fail to understand how your religion has make you follow another gospel in which you twist scripture to judge and follow your own righteousness. We warned you to remain in Christ and his grace. You seek to follow God with your flesh instead of your heart. For if in our heart is to follow the forgiveness of sin. Your law and works are empty without love, charity and faith. If at the end of my life, I have more and better works than yours. By judging one of us you have put a curse under yourself.

Galatians 3

"3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

 

[Zao is life]

I would like to clear it up. As I said on another thread, To me how can you not believe in it? You have to keep being saved over and over again otherwise? So once isn't enough for you? That would seem to say that being saved is meaningless if you can't count on it to stick around.
Any theories, thoughts, etc?

I will tell you why I believe that

1. We are not saved by our works, but by the works of Christ.
2. We can disqualify ourselves by our works.​

Those who have been born of the Spirit through faith in Jesus and regard Him as their Savior must also regard Him as their Lord.

The extent to which I submit myself to Christ is the extent to which He is my Lord.

Luke 6:46-49
"And why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?

Whoever comes to Me and hears My words, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like.
He is like a man who built a house and dug deep and laid the foundation on a rock; and a flood occurring, the stream burst against that house and could not shake it; for it was founded on a rock.

But he who hears and does not perform, is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, on which the stream burst, and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."

Mat 25:11-13
"Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

But he answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you. Therefore watch, for you do not know either the day or the hour in which the Son of man comes."

Luke 13:23-30
"And one said to Him, Lord, are the ones being saved few?

And He said to them, Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able.

And once the Master of the house has risen up and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us, and He shall answer and say to you, I do not know you; from where are you;

then you shall begin to say, We ate and drank in Your presence, and You have taught in our streets. But He shall say, I tell you, I do not know you; from where you are. Depart from Me, all workers of unrighteousness! There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you will see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves being thrust out.

And they will come from the east and the west, and from the north and the south, and will recline in the kingdom of God. And behold, there are last ones which will be first, and there are first ones which will be last."

Mat 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!"

There are statements regarding the book of life:

Revelation 3:2-6
"Be watchful and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die. For I have not found your works being fulfilled before God. Remember then how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments. And they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. The one who overcomes, that one will be clothed in white clothing. And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

He who has an ear, will hear. How could they have defiled their garments if they had no garments? How can anyone get his name blotted out of the book of life if his name was never in it?

Therefore in my opinion,

1. We are not saved by our works, but by the works of Christ.
2. We can disqualify ourselves by our works.​

 

[Danigt22]

I disagree. Those who have been born of the Spirit through faith in Jesus and regard Him as their Savior must also regard Him as their Lord.

The extent to which I submit myself to Christ is the extent to which He is my Lord.

Luke 6:46-49
"And why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?

Whoever comes to Me and hears My words, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like.
He is like a man who built a house and dug deep and laid the foundation on a rock; and a flood occurring, the stream burst against that house and could not shake it; for it was founded on a rock.

But he who hears and does not perform, is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, on which the stream burst, and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."

Mat 25:11-13
"Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

But he answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you. Therefore watch, for you do not know either the day or the hour in which the Son of man comes."

Luke 13:23-30
"And one said to Him, Lord, are the ones being saved few?

And He said to them, Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able.

And once the Master of the house has risen up and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us, and He shall answer and say to you, I do not know you; from where are you;

then you shall begin to say, We ate and drank in Your presence, and You have taught in our streets. But He shall say, I tell you, I do not know you; from where you are. Depart from Me, all workers of unrighteousness! There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you will see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves being thrust out.

And they will come from the east and the west, and from the north and the south, and will recline in the kingdom of God. And behold, there are last ones which will be first, and there are first ones which will be last."

Mat 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!"

There are statements regarding the book of life:​

Revelation 3:2-6
"Be watchful and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die. For I have not found your works being fulfilled before God. Remember then how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments. And they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. The one who overcomes, that one will be clothed in white clothing. And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

He who has an ear, will hear. How could they have defiled their garments if they had no garments? How can anyone get his name blotted out of the book of life if his name was never in it?

Therefore in my opinion,

1. We are not saved by our works, but by the works of Christ.
2. We can disqualify ourselves by our works.​

Do you believe in him within your heart and his gospel or not. Because I know many satanists who know he is real but not believe within their hearts his words. We all sin everyday all the time, I see no point judging my brethren mistakes. Nevertheless it is in their hearts they follow the lord, not their works. How much the finish work of Cross means to us is a better sing that person is a sheep.

 

[Zao is life]

Do you believe in him within your heart and his gospel or not. Because I know many satanists who know he is real but not believe within their hearts his words. We all sin everyday all the time, I see no point judging my brethren mistakes. Nevertheless it is in their hearts they follow the lord, not their works. How much the finish work of Cross means to us is a better sing that person is a sheep.

Your question continues with the words,

".. because I know many satanists who know he is real but not believe within their hearts his words."

The above words show the spirit behind your question. It sets the tone.

The Lord knows my heart. I do not need to answer to you.

 

[Danigt22]

Your question continues with the words,

".. because I know many satanists who know he is real but not believe within their hearts his words."

The above words show the spirit behind your question. It sets the tone.

The Lord knows my heart. I do not need to answer to you.

Then dont judge your brethren in the first place. If you are not humble enough to know you are filthy rags below the lord, grace isnt within you.

 

[Albion]

I will tell you why I believe that

1. We are not saved by our works, but by the works of Christ.
2. We can disqualify ourselves by our works.​

To sum up, it sounds like you DO believe you are saved by your works, even though you told us otherwise. At least, it's your works in conjunction with or along with your Faith.

 

[returntosender]

I will tell you why I believe that

1. We are not saved by our works, but by the works of Christ.​

2. We can disqualify ourselves by our works.​

Those who have been born of the Spirit through faith in Jesus and regard Him as their Savior must also regard Him as their Lord.

The extent to which I submit myself to Christ is the extent to which He is my Lord.

Luke 6:46-49
"And why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?

Whoever comes to Me and hears My words, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like.
He is like a man who built a house and dug deep and laid the foundation on a rock; and a flood occurring, the stream burst against that house and could not shake it; for it was founded on a rock.

But he who hears and does not perform, is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, on which the stream burst, and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."

Mat 25:11-13
"Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

But he answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you. Therefore watch, for you do not know either the day or the hour in which the Son of man comes."

Luke 13:23-30
"And one said to Him, Lord, are the ones being saved few?

And He said to them, Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able.

And once the Master of the house has risen up and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us, and He shall answer and say to you, I do not know you; from where are you;

then you shall begin to say, We ate and drank in Your presence, and You have taught in our streets. But He shall say, I tell you, I do not know you; from where you are. Depart from Me, all workers of unrighteousness! There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you will see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves being thrust out.

And they will come from the east and the west, and from the north and the south, and will recline in the kingdom of God. And behold, there are last ones which will be first, and there are first ones which will be last."

Mat 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!"

There are statements regarding the book of life:

Revelation 3:2-6
"Be watchful and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die. For I have not found your works being fulfilled before God. Remember then how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments. And they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. The one who overcomes, that one will be clothed in white clothing. And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

He who has an ear, will hear. How could they have defiled their garments if they had no garments? How can anyone get his name blotted out of the book of life if his name was never in it?

Therefore in my opinion,

1. We are not saved by our works, but by the works of Christ.
2. We can disqualify ourselves by our works.​

But that wasn't the question.