Walmart

[contango]

But sometimes we go to Walmart to get a sense of ourselves. Just look at all these "brainless, country bumkin, low-class losers...and dirty capitalists behind the one-sided glass. I am soooo much better."

In Christianity we call this comparative righteousness. In psychology, its "the other, with a capital O", where we find our identity and know what's cool about ourselves by the deficiencies we see in others.

Perhaps, that's why this thread was even started...

Wow. When I go to Wal-Mart I'm looking for cheap jeans.

 

[sarxweh]

Oh, come on

 

[sarxweh]

Wow. When I go to Wal-Mart I'm looking for cheap jeans.

Right. And when you go to christian forums, your looking for cheap shots.

But you aren't comparing yourself to anyone. Never... Except for the comment you just made, where you compared your perspective at Walmart to "mine" who you don't even know...

 

[bhsmte]

Oh, come on

Come on what?

If I need to buy some goods and I can get the same goods for $90 at wal mart, vs $100 at Target across the street, I will pick wal mart every time.

If you actually claim to think my reasoning is deeper than that, have fun with that.

 

[contango]

Right. And when you go to christian forums, your looking for cheap shots.

But you aren't comparing yourself to anyone. Never... Except for the comment you just made, where you compared your perspective at Walmart to "mine" who you don't even know...

Cheap shots?

I'm not comparing myself to anyone, other than in comparing my purposes in going to Wal-Mart to yours.

I don't know you and wouldn't know you if I walked into you. But you made it quite clear why you sometimes go to Wal-Mart. When I go shopping I rarely pay much attention to the other people in the store. I guess my goals are different to yours, although quite how that's "comparing myself to anyone" is unclear.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Is the upper class at Sam's Club because they can afford the yearly fee to join and keep their membership @sarxweh? Or maybe Costco? Do tell!

 

[bhsmte]

Is the upper class at Sam's Club because they can afford the yearly fee to join and keep their membership @sarxweh? Or maybe Costco? Do tell!

I actually belong to Costco as well as shopping at wal mart.

Some things are cheaper at Costco because of the bulk you buy, but there are still many items, that are still cheaper at wal mart.

 

[contango]

I actually belong to Costco as well as shopping at wal mart.

Some things are cheaper at Costco because of the bulk you buy, but there are still many items, that are still cheaper at wal mart.

For me it's a pretty simple consideration of whether a cheaper price is worth any inconvenience associated with the saving.

If I can save $5 on a $100 item by driving across town and standing in line for half an hour it's not worth the saving. If I can save $500 on a $2000 item by putting up with some inconvenience it probably is worth the saving. Obviously where the time is worth more than the money is a matter for people to decide for themselves.

 

[bhsmte]

For me it's a pretty simple consideration of whether a cheaper price is worth any inconvenience associated with the saving.

If I can save $5 on a $100 item by driving across town and standing in line for half an hour it's not worth the saving. If I can save $500 on a $2000 item by putting up with some inconvenience it probably is worth the saving. Obviously where the time is worth more than the money is a matter for people to decide for themselves.

Yep, whatever floats one's boat, in regards to where you choose to shop.

I could afford to shop across the street at Target, but I just don't see a reason to do so and pay 10-15% more for the same products.

 

[RDKirk]

Yep, whatever floats one's boat, in regards to where you choose to shop.

I could afford to shop across the street at Target, but I just don't see a reason to do so and pay 10-15% more for the same products.

My closest Target and Wal-Mart are literally across the street from one another. If I need a simple branded commodity, I'll shop Wal-Mart first.

1. Wal-Mart is more likely to have it, making it more likely I'll only need one stop.
2. Wal-Mart is more likely to have it cheaper.
3. That particular Target store is even worse than Wal-Mart in keeping sufficient lanes open, and at least Wal-Mart has self-check lanes.

 

[bhsmte]

My closest Target and Wal-Mart are literally across the street from one another. If I need a simple branded commodity, I'll shop Wal-Mart first.

1. Wal-Mart is more likely to have it, making it more likely I'll only need one stop.
2. Wal-Mart is more likely to have it cheaper.
3. That particular Target store is even worse than Wal-Mart in keeping sufficient lanes open, and at least Wal-Mart has self-check lanes.

I agree and I am in same situation across the street from each other.

I have also found, the return policy at wal mart is more customer friendly, than it is at Target.

 

[Ken-1122]

But sometimes we go to Walmart to get a sense of ourselves. Just look at all these "brainless, country bumkin, low-class losers...and dirty capitalists behind the one-sided glass. I am soooo much better."

Don't know where you live, but where I live, the quality of people at WalMart is the same as the same as the quality of people at the Sears, Safeway, the park, or anywhere else in town. I couldn't imagine going to Walmart to see low-class people anymore than I would anywhere else in town.

Ken

 

[sarxweh]

Okay, I think the argument here is awry. I am not a proponent of comparative righteousness, nor do I consciously or intentionally practice it. The example of visiting walmart to "feel good about yourself" was a response to the idea stated earlier (in response to the original point which diverged into "reasons not to go to a store which pursues success at any cost".)

The argument is, does a system like walmart have a negative impact on society, or is there ever a place to draw the line and say, "no. That's enough success. Too much profit everyone. Let's keep this machine from getting too prosperous."

The pros, the con's, the big picture.

My interjection about "going to feel good about yourself" was to point out, that is not the reason to shop somewhere. I guess in argument against the idea that Walmart ought to be a pleasant experience. A deal is a deal. Craigslist, carmax, or cracker barrel - we will all trade money and time for what we personally want. I'm not sure why this enters the debate at all. Of course, PERSONALLY we want what we want at the least personal cost possible.

But the OP was questioning the principal of success itself. In the grand scheme I suppose. Is there ever a point where success should be limited?

So are we just shopping, or are we gonna actually buy something?

 

[contango]

My interjection about "going to feel good about yourself" was to point out, that is not the reason to shop somewhere. I guess in argument against the idea that Walmart ought to be a pleasant experience. A deal is a deal. Craigslist, carmax, or cracker barrel - we will all trade money and time for what we personally want. I'm not sure why this enters the debate at all. Of course, PERSONALLY we want what we want at the least personal cost possible.

This sounds like it's very simple but it's anything but. "The least personal cost" isn't easy to define in any way that would reach universal achievement.

To someone with no job and very limited finances it's worth standing in line for half an hour and enduring a shopping experience that isn't pleasant if it means saving money on the weekly groceries.

To someone with very limited time and substantial finances it's worth paying more for a fast service even if the product at the end of it all is identical to one that's available for a lower financial cost to anyone willing to stand in line and wait for it.

But the OP was questioning the principal of success itself. In the grand scheme I suppose. Is there ever a point where success should be limited?

Success isn't the sort of thing that can sensibly be limited. If enough people regard what a business provides as being preferable to its competitors they will seek it out. Ultimately if there is a demand the market will find a supply and it's absurd to put an absolute line in the sand and say that you can't be any bigger than an arbitrarily defined number. If you were to even attempt it, how would you objectively define the limit of success and how would you prevent companies from exceeding it, or punish them if they did?

Theoretically if we could say that no company is allowed to have an annual turnover in excess of $10bn, what would you expect the company to do if its turnover is already at $9.8bn and it's only September? Should they simply cease trading for the rest of the year? If "success" is measured in terms of retail space and a company has reached its allowance, it might be self-reinforcing if existing stores become so crowded people look elsewhere, or it might just create an ongoing hazard where so many people are crammed into one store that it's hard to move. It might be easier to limit the total profit a company can make and levy a 100% tax on anything above it, but such a move would be either counterproductive or utterly useless. If companies made no attempt to subvert it, it would mean that very successful companies would simply close their doors for large chunks of the year, which would mean that those most reliant on them would suffer. And it wouldn't take long before companies started springing up all over the place, alongside established companies. Since we're talking about Wal-Mart specifically, if Wal-Mart had profits of $9.8bn by the beginning of September and the annual cap was set at $10bn we shouldn't be surprised if another company (let's call it Wil-Mart) appeared with remarkably similar shareholders that provided supplies to Wal-Mart at a remarkably high price and Wal-Mart sold them at cost price or lower. At a stroke surplus profit is shifted into another company and the cap is avoided.

 

[sarxweh]

Think bigger, grasshopper. Here's the original point:

Okay, so I occasionally hear about people complain about how this megastore hurts small business, and I'm not denying that it does.

But, the issue I have is, when exactly is a store supposed to limit its success? Walmart, if memory serves, started out as a small business until it became the success that it is today. I am sure the people behind it worked really hard. When are they supposed to stop working as hard? What is the barrier they are not to cross?

There is a "barrier"...
And it limits "success"

I have taken a stab in earlier posts (which you may agree with) to say that barrier is largely an ethical one. But maybe it isn't.

 

[sarxweh]

By the way, I agree with you contango

 

[bhsmte]

Okay, I think the argument here is awry. I am not a proponent of comparative righteousness, nor do I consciously or intentionally practice it. The example of visiting walmart to "feel good about yourself" was a response to the idea stated earlier (in response to the original point which diverged into "reasons not to go to a store which pursues success at any cost".)

The argument is, does a system like walmart have a negative impact on society, or is there ever a place to draw the line and say, "no. That's enough success. Too much profit everyone. Let's keep this machine from getting too prosperous."

The pros, the con's, the big picture.

My interjection about "going to feel good about yourself" was to point out, that is not the reason to shop somewhere. I guess in argument against the idea that Walmart ought to be a pleasant experience. A deal is a deal. Craigslist, carmax, or cracker barrel - we will all trade money and time for what we personally want. I'm not sure why this enters the debate at all. Of course, PERSONALLY we want what we want at the least personal cost possible.

But the OP was questioning the principal of success itself. In the grand scheme I suppose. Is there ever a point where success should be limited?

So are we just shopping, or are we gonna actually buy something?

When I go shopping, I usually buy something.

 

[Deidre32]

The problem is often you do not get the same product for less. You get an inferior version of what looks like the same product for less.

Check the SKUs. They have been known to be different, special Walmart versions that look the same but are not.

this

 

[Johnnz]

God's principles that apply to any business are set out pretty clearly in Scripture. Mere commercial gain without social responsibility is frequently decried. Here is a sample of biblical texts.

[FONT=&quot]Isa 5:8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Woe to you who add house to house and join field to field till no space is left and you live alone in the land.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Updated "Woe to you who have become large and powerful, squeezing out the little guys, cornering the market, setting the terms primarily for your own benefit".
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[FONT=&quot]Ex 23:10-11 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"For six years you are to sow your fields and harvest the crops, but during the seventh year let the land lie unploughed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lev 19:9-10 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"'When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the Lord your God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Deut 24:14-15 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns. Pay him his wages each day before sunset, because he is poor and is counting on it. Otherwise he may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Prov 14:31 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honours God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All people bear something of God's image and thus have immeasurable value.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Prov 22:22 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not exploit the poor because they are poor[/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Prov 29:7 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Isa 3:14-15 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The LORD enters into judgment against the elders and leaders of his people: "It is you who have ruined my vineyard; the plunder from the poor is in your houses. What do you mean by crushing my people and grinding the faces of the poor?" declares the Lord, the Lord Almighty. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Those with authority have responsibilities towards those who don't.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jer 5:26-28 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A[/FONT][FONT=&quot]mong my people are wicked men who lie in wait like men who snare birds and like those who set traps to catch men. Like cages full of birds, their houses are full of deceit; they have become rich and powerful and have grown fat and sleek. Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ezek 16:49-50 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Amos 8:4-6 Hear this, you who trample the needy and do away with the poor of the land, saying, "When will the New Moon be over that we may sell grain, and the Sabbath be ended that we may market wheat?"—skimping the measure, boosting the price and cheating with dishonest scales, buying the poor with silver and the needy for a pair of sandals,

Money is all that matters. People don't.

I see these principles being ignored by many businesses in our globalized economy. Walmart would be just one example.

John
NZ

 

[sarxweh]

...Post-promised-land Israel being the primary example of a failed success story. They get all the expected and longed for elements of the promise: every man under his own fig tree, a wise king, God's presence in their midst...

And they abdicate their responsibilities as God's people in the earth. They prove yet again AS A CITY just like Adam and Eve did AS A FAMILY, they are not interested in life with the Father.

Man proves himself over and over as a resistor of God.

No religion's book written about and by the founders, casts them in such a poor light. The bible never exalts the men and women as heroes, but always reveals the true character of God -

Who's economy is an everlasting economy, and who's kingdom shall never end.