Wal-mart petition

[lismore]

I think because many christains forget about loving the person and hating the sin, and end up hating the person as well

Agreed, but is homosexuality a lifestyle choice or something deeper? Emotional, spiritual, mental or whatever. If we use Ghandi's idea of love the sinner and hate the sin and homosexuality is something deeper than merely 'I'll be gay today', are we not having a bipolar attitude towards gay people? They might see their sexuality as part of themselves.

The answer for a gay person of course, is Jesus Christ . The new birth makes everyone a new creation. Without the new birth I dont think there is an answer.

Love the person yes, but how do you disassociate who they are from them? They need a new life, God's spiritual DNA in them.

 

[lismore]

I'm sorry ... I'm really not trying to be smart-aleck ...

What is "the homosexual agenda" ?
Is it to destroy "the heterosexual agenda" ?

Divorce doesnt wreck marriages. Its those gays!

 

[~RENEE~]

Personally it's a spiritual thing. Just ask me. I was bi at one time. But allowed God to heal me. It is spiritual but all it takes is Jesus. They need Jesus.

 

[SharonL]

I have been asked "why do people pick on homosexuals so much - it's only one of the sins mentioned in the Bible" - my answer was education is not teaching our children that lying, stealing, murder, etc is alright - but they are teaching that homosexuality is ok.

I had 2 very good friends that were homosexuals - one openly flaunted it and the other one was a closet one. I could talk to the closet one and we discussed it many times and I ask him if he felt like it was a spirit - he thought awhile and said well that would explain a lot of things in his life.

I was critized highly for my association with him, but I am very glad I had the opportunity to speak with him - he was only 24 years old and died of aids shortly after that conversation. I pray that our conversation gave him the opportunity to make things right before his death.

We never know when just a short conversation may be what the Holy Spirit uses to turn a person to Jesus.

 

[Tatu]

Agreed, but is homosexuality a lifestyle choice or something deeper? Emotional, spiritual, mental or whatever. If we use Ghandi's idea of love the sinner and hate the sin and homosexuality is something deeper than merely 'I'll be gay today', are we not having a bipolar attitude towards gay people? They might see their sexuality as part of themselves.

The answer for a gay person of course, is Jesus Christ . The new birth makes everyone a new creation. Without the new birth I dont think there is an answer.

Love the person yes, but how do you disassociate who they are from them? They need a new life, God's spiritual DNA in them.

Yeah, I don' t think there's an answer for gay people outside of Jesus either.

We don't tell drunks, drug addicts, or harlots that they need to clean up before they come to Jesus. Why should we do that to gay people?

There's probably a billion and one ministries telling gay people they need to switch, or how to switch, but none of them are just telling them Jesus loves them and God wants a relationship with them. That it's not "either/or".

Once they establish that relationship, they can read the Bible and grow and make Holy Spirit-led decisions about their lives.

Personally it's a spiritual thing. Just ask me. I was bi at one time. But allowed God to heal me. It is spiritual but all it takes is Jesus. They need Jesus.

But so does everyone else. And we don't go around making holy rolling crusades against adultery or drunkenness (unless it's harming or putting someone in danger).

 

[msbojingles]

I have been asked "why do people pick on homosexuals so much - it's only one of the sins mentioned in the Bible" - my answer was education is not teaching our children that lying, stealing, murder, etc is alright - but they are teaching that homosexuality is ok.

That is an excellent response, and the absolute truth! Not only that, but people are not advocating to make stealing legal. People also wonder why so many Christians are against abortion, well, that's because so many want the murder of innocent lives to be legal. What has it come to when murder is legal? sad day for sure.

But so does everyone else. And we don't go around making holy rolling crusades against adultery or drunkenness (unless it's harming or putting someone in danger).

That's because these big companies are not lobbying to make adultery and drunkeness be taught as normal and "ok" in the classroom, nor are they lobbying to excuse things like "drunkeness" in a court of law, and the last time I checked, "adultery" is still a valid reason for divorce.

Someone coming onto a Christian Forum, or any Christian gathering, for that matter, to make these types of things known to other christians, hardly constitutes advocating "ministries" that tell people they need to clean up before coming to Christ. That is a topic for a completely different thread, as there is nothing in this thread that indicates anyone on this thread believes ANYONE needs to be "cleaned up" before coming to Christ.

 

[jrlinz]

This is exactly what I have been saying from the beginning. I guess I had better improve my ability to communicate. I see homosexuality as no worse than stealing or drunkenness. So when soemone tells me drunkenness or thievery is ok, I tell them in no uncertain terms, it is sin. Of course, we do not have a lot of people saying that yet. but we have a bunch of individuals, groups, orgs, ect... shouting from the rooftops of the nation that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. I shout back, and 3rd grade psychology is not going to shut me up.

 

[jrlinz]

Before I stop opposing legitimizing homosexual marriage, please tell me the long term, net good that we would be adding to the world by taking seriously, legitimizing a 'marriage' between a man and another man, or between two women? Does it really please god, or does it just please people?

 

[lismore]

We never know when just a short conversation may be what the Holy Spirit uses to turn a person to Jesus.

Absolutely. A seed sown can grow, even after a while

 

[JimfromOhio]

For those who are without Christ in our hearts, if we broke ONE law... we ALL broke them all. We all are sinners and we needed to be saved. We are doomed and seperated from God. The good news, many of us here are "FORGIVEN SINNERS". Which means we are saved through Jesus Christ.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 1 John 4:10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

The Ten Commandments for CHRISTIANS are about LOVE. Christians do not look at the Ten Commandments as laws but Grace of Love. We are to LOVE God first (first 4 commandments) and we are to love one another (last 6 commandments). Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 1 Peter 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. We are commanded by God to love sinners as well as Christians. The only difference is that we are to HATE what they do but still love them. Love is the key. God is love. He gave us two commandments. We are to love God and others. With the Holy Spirit and love, I will walk in the Spirit, Christ produces the fruit. It is Christ through the Holy Spirit produces power, love, a sound mind through us. Christ helps us. Without Christ, we are nothing. Along with love and under the control of the Holy Spirit, the power of love and Holy Spirit flows through us.

We all may disagree with many secular corporations and government officials are doing. Our main job is to spread the Gospel to ALL and allow God handle the situations. Often we live in secular world and that's part of our reality in this world. All of us are born with "conscience" but not holy. When a Christian who is saved by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, this Christian is living in a new Creature with holy conscience rather than sinful conscience. Every Christian must decide whether they will us their liberty to decide on their moral decisions. We are free from the chains of sin because by grace we are saved by Christ that we are forgiven. Spiritual liberty means the freedom to be all that we were designed to be, but this is not a freedom that is without restrictions or responsibilities. As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with issues. I mean, it's like losing ourselves in the pursuit of Christ and let everything else take its place.

 

[lismore]

Before I stop opposing legitimizing homosexual marriage, please tell me the long term, net good that we would be adding to the world by taking seriously, legitimizing a 'marriage' between a man and another man, or between two women? Does it really please god, or does it just please people?

I agree with you there. Having same sex marriage is not right. The largest Christian denomination here, the CHurch of Scotland, has allowed same sex marriages in its churches. Its also in terminal decline.

If we dont stand respectfully, gently but firmly for Christian morals then one day there will be no Christian morals left. When there is no distinction between the church and the world, then there is no church.

 

[jrlinz]

Amen, Lismore!

Jim, I think you are right to a degree, but also missing something very important. I am a researcher, My main job is to test the stuff (if I may use that word) that the scientists send down to me. I then compile data, which they interpret. But, if I happen to catch onto something that was going on during the collection of data that might affect it's interpretation, and did nothing about it, I would not be working in the best interest of my employer. God is my employer, so I have to try to do all he commanded me, to the best of my ability. I can't neglect all other responsibilities, focusing only on my 'main' responsibility, and still tell myself I am doing God's will. Make sense?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Amen, Lismore!

Jim, I think you are right to a degree, but also missing something very important. I an a researcher, My mani job is to test the stuff (if I may use that word) that the scientists send down to me. I then compile data, which they interpret. But, if I happen to catch onto something that was going on during the collection of data that might affect it's interpretation, and did nothing about it, I would not be working in the best interest of my employer. God is my employer, so I have to try to do all he commanded me, to the best of my ability. I can't neglect all other responsibilities, focusing only on my 'main' responsibility, and still tell myself I am doing God's will. Make sense?

I know what you mean. Joseph and Daniel had the same problem. I do my part and let God do the rest. My concern is not the policies but rather souls of the lost.

 

[jrlinz]

I know what you mean. Joseph and Daniel had the same problem. I do my part and let God do the rest. My concern is not the policies but rather souls of the lost.

So, you think the policies do not affect the souls?

 

[JimfromOhio]

So, you think the policies do not affect the souls?

Everything including policies effects everybody's souls. Policies are not the only issue in this dark world. My biggest concern is what's on television. I do believe very much in being a responsible Christian citizen. But that responsibility is defined for the Christian by the Bible, not by university professors or political scientists, corporations or marketing advertisements or any other humanism reasoning. Christ have not given us a political agenda, but a spiritual mandate to proclaim the Gospel and disciple the nations (Matthew 28:19-20). Rather as good testimony to outsiders, Christians can work with non-Christians in attempting to promote better policies and civic peace because it is good for all people, not just Christians (Galatians 6:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:15).

 

[BearerBob]

I just wish we'd fix the church before we tried to fix the world.

 

[msbojingles]

I thank God I don't have to fix either. Takes a lot of pressure off me..well not really, it was never there in the first place.

The only One who is called, and is any good at fixing anything is the Lord Himself. Woo hooo for Jesus!

 

[jrlinz]

I beg to disagree. Let me give you just one recent incident as an example:
I am visiting my daughter, son-in-law, and two grandsons (ages 10 and 8) that live close by us. I come in, of course, they jump up, run to the door, yell at the top of their lungs "GRAMPA!", and smother me with hugs. I kiss their foreheads, and tell them I love them and missed them (since yesterday). I go out to the yard with their dad, and we discuss a problem he is having with his irrigation system. When that is resolved, I go inside to see my grandkids totally enraptured in a movie on DVD. I hear a main charactor in the movie use the name of the Lord in cvain, loudly. I flinch, but he does it again, and again! I look at my grandkids, who are totally absorbed in the movie. I tell them they should not be listening to this 'garbage' (just my humble opinion). They reply "Oh, grampa, all my friends have seen it, and their parents go to church" and "It's in all the movies now". How do you fight that? Was it policy that let that in my livingroom through the media, or something else? How did that policy come to be? Was it always the 'American way'? I can tell you, in on uncertain terms, it was not! Someone screamed, no one screamed back. jmho. Now, I scream, too.

Does it affect the souls of my grandsons to hear a 'hero' yell God's name in vain repeatedly? HJollywood says 'no!", and that I am anti-diversity, and anti first amendment if I say otherwise. You say I should not try to directly affect 'policy', but God tells me to do something. Who is right?

 

[JimfromOhio]

I just wish we'd fix the church before we tried to fix the world.

YES. That's the main problem. We should be judging ourselves rather judging others. Are we judging Christians and non-Cristians? For as we judge others so we will be judged by God. Are we heavenly minded or earthy minded? For me as a believer to reach out to those who are lost is a privilege and a responsibility.

 

[jrlinz]

My church is not broken. Not perfect, but willing and receptive. If I wait for it to become perfect, it might be too late for some left behind.