Wal-mart petition

[jrlinz]

Yes.... Jesus never condemns sinners but he condemn religion people like us. Religion leaders don't show love because they magnify sins as people are bad rather their sins.

He also condemns sin, do you disagree? Why do you insist upon equating the sin with the sinner? Is that really how you feel?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Look, I am not suggesting, or advocating, that we knock sinners over the head with their sin, or to claim that any of us are totally without sin. But, I am saying I want to be a voice, in whatever medium I can use, for righteousness. I do not want to stand by and allow sin to be rewarded, justified.

You can voice with love. 1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. Galatians 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

For YEARS, Christians have been focusing on policies that have confronted our lives. Government is not the problem. Its PEOPLE. Christians, non-Christians, Extremists, Liberals, Conversatives and the list is so long. Politically eveyone is so divided. We ALL are Christians first and everything else after that is secondary. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36). Christ have not given us a political agenda, but a spiritual mandate to proclaim the Gospel and disciple the nations (Matthew 28:19-20). As Christians, we should hold our political views be guided by the Bible and Holy Spirit. When we voice our political views, our views are ours individually based on our understanding the Bible and how we view the world. Christians should use their Bible and their relationship with God by adopting a biblical perspectives which are God's views in all aspects of life through the help from the Holy Spirit.

 

[jrlinz]

He also condemns sin, do you disagree? Why do you insist upon equating the sin with the sinner? Is that really how you feel?

Did you change your post even in my quote?

 

[JimfromOhio]

He also condemns sin, do you disagree? Why do you insist upon equating the sin with the sinner? Is that really how you feel?

He condemn SIN but never condemn a sinner. Sinners who died without Christ are condemn to hell. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Jesus even socialized with sinners more than He socialized with religion leaders. 1 Timothy 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 1 Timothy 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Besides... "homosexual" is not the worst sin. Read Proverbs 6:16-19

here are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
1. haughty eyes,
2. a lying tongue,
3. hands that shed innocent blood,
4. a heart that devises wicked schemes,
5. feet that are quick to rush into evil,
6. a false witness who pours out lies
7. a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. (Worst)

 

[jrlinz]

Jim, before we get really into a dispute, I do think people can go way too far in proclaiming homosexuality as sin, and in persuing political agenda's to the detrement of their other Christian duties. But, when confronted, in a friendly conversation, or at the polling booth, I will call sin, sin.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Jim, before we get really into a dispute, I do think people can go way too far in proclaiming homosexuality as sin, and in persuing political agenda's to the detrement of their other Christian duties. But, when confronted, in a friendly conversation, or at the polling booth, I will call sin, sin.

I have never approached anyone and said "you have sinned" simply because we all have sinned through Adam. Sinners will continue to sin regardless if they are homosexual or good citizens who are without Christ. They are "sinners" by definition of Adam, not by the actions. People are not sinners because they sin; they sin because they are sinners.

Jesus said to the Pharisees one day as they picked up stones to stone an adulterous woman: "Whoever is without sin... throw the first stone."

When I witness to the lost, I will never judge any sinners based on their actions simply because they are sinners and they do NOT know that their actions are sin because they do not have the Holy Spirit to convict them to know what they are doing is sin.

 

[jrlinz]

I have never approached anyone and said "you have sinned" simply because we all have sinned through Adam. Sinners will continue to sin regardless if they are homosexual or good citizens who are without Christ. They are "sinners" by definition of Adam, not by the actions. People are not sinners because they sin; they sin because they are sinners.

Jesus said to the Pharisees one day as they picked up stones to stone an adulterous woman: Whoever is "without sin... throw the first stone."

When I witness to the lost, I will never judge any sinners based on their actions simply because they are sinners and they do NOT know that their actions are sin because they do not have the Holy Spirit to convict them to know what they are doing is sin.

Nor do I Jim. That is, I believe, true to Jesus' teaching. But, I feel strongly that God would not want it covered up that sin is sin. I think He wants it known. When the contrary is tossed into a forum in which I am invited, I am a gladiator. I won't do the tossing, but I won't back down, either.

I have never approached anyone and said "you have sinned"

By the way, Jesus has done this.

 

[JimfromOhio]

By the way, Jesus has done this.

I don't remember Jesus condemning sinners. I did a query looking verses on Jesus condemning sinners. All I found was Jesus condemning religion leaders. Jesus did tell everyone that God hates sin but loves the sinners.

John 8:7-12
Jesus said: "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

"No one, sir," she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

 

[JimB]

BTW has anyone pledging to boycott Wal-Mart agreed to contribute to a fund to help the innocent families of Wal-Mart employee, many of them Christian, who get laid off when sales drop because your boycott worked? Or are they just collateral damage in another misguided Christian crusade? How would you like it if a wild-eyed overzealous group trying to make a point boycotted your company and you lost your job and benefits and as a result your home and car, your retirement, your savings. How would you feel toward the crusaders?

But will the policy makers, the one’s who actually decide how Wal-Mart’s money is spent, lose their jobs? No way. They will keep their plush offices, high-paying jobs, and perks and just wait until the storm blows over (as they always do) and Christian crusaders find another target to vent their on.

We never learn. Nothing changes but we feel better because we “made our voice heard”. And in the process did more damage than good and hurt more people than helped.

Maybe we should pray more and boycott less. IMO.

BTW, thanks to this thread, I shopped at Wal-Mart yesterday and was greeted by a wonderful Christian brother of mine. I also made a couple of contacts of unchurched people in the Wal-Mart aisles who just might show up at church this morning. Had I not been at Wal-Mart I would never have seen them.

~Jim

 

[jrlinz]

BTW has anyone pledging to boycott Wal-Mart agreed to contribute to a fund to help the innocent families of Wal-Mart employee, many of them Christian, who get laid off when sales drop because your boycott worked? Or are they just collateral damage in another misguided Christian crusade? How would you like it if a wild-eyed overzealous group trying to make a point boycotted your company and you lost your job and benefits and as a result your home and car, your retirement, your savings. How would you feel toward the crusaders?

But will the policy makers, the one’s who actually decide how Wal-Mart’s money is spent, lose their jobs? No way. They will keep their plush offices, high-paying jobs, and perks and just wait until the storm blows over (as they always do) and Christian crusaders find another target to vent their on.

We never learn. Nothing changes but we feel better because we “made our voice heard”. And in the process did more damage than good and hurt more people than helped.

Maybe we should pray more and boycott less. IMO.

BTW, thanks to this thread, I shopped at Wal-Mart yesterday and was greeted by a wonderful Christian brother of mine. I also made a couple of contacts of unchurched people in the Wal-Mart aisles who just might show up at church this morning. Had I not been at Wal-Mart I would never have seen them.

~Jim

That money you spent at wal-mart could have helped support a local 'mom and pop' store that walmart is trying to run into the ground, and the owners are, likely as not, you guessed it, Christian. Did you ever stop to think of that, before you decided to run the little guilt trip? If they weren't Christian, you could witness to them, but you never had the chance, as you supported walmart, and state sanctification of homosexual marriage.

 

[JimB]

That money you spent at wal-mart could have helped support a local 'mom and pop' store that walmart is trying to run into the ground, and the owners are, likely as not, you guessed it, Christian. Did you ever stop to think of that, before you decided to run the little guilt trip? If they weren't Christian, you could witness to them, but you never had the chance, as you supported walmart, and state sanctification of homosexual marriage.

I’m with you on this point (except the ‘running the guilt trip’ broadside, of course). The biggest threat Wal-Mart poses is definitely to Moms & Pops and I do most of my shopping downtown at the smaller stores who cannot match W-M’s inventory or prices.

But that’s not the subject of this thread, is it?

And I go “fishing for souls” at Wal-Mart because, like it or not, that’s where the “fish” shop. In fact, we have practically built our church with Wal-Mart’s indirect help. Almost every time I shop there I see old friends, many of them unchurched, I get a chance to invite to church.

I sort of see Wal-Mart as the fishing pond. They have become our unwitting partners in outreach.

~Jim

 

[jrlinz]

I do not have a problem with that, Jim. In fact, I rather respect that you do it. But, I really think those who oppose God are just getting a little too brazen, unchecked.

 

[JohnR7]

It's 5% of purchases made through the gay group's website.

So you could buy on Walmart.com without supporting the gay group in any way.

I would be glad to give them 5% of everything they sold for me to.

 

[SharonL]

I heard on the news that Wal Mart has a program in place where they help the mom and pop stores manufacture more so they can sell to Wal Mart - I do not know how it works - that is all I heard.

 

[Questioning Christian]

Personally, I think we should get Fred Phelps to boycott Wal-Mart!!!!!!!!

 

[jrlinz]

Personally, I think we should get Fred Phelps to boycott Wal-Mart!!!!!!!!

I bet they don't even sell his books.

 

[lismore]

I do not have a problem with that, Jim. In fact, I rather respect that you do it. But, I really think those who oppose God are just getting a little too brazen, unchecked.

All you folks in the USA, you can probably get a preview of what things will be like (if you let them slide) when you look at the UK!

We now have same sex marriage legalised here. There was debate last month about teaching homosexuality in schools, the final vote by the government was postponed to march 2007 because of pressure from CCTV (Christian Congress for traiditonal values). One of the books that children will be getting at school is about a 14 year old boy seducing a 10 year old boy, another one has a grown man seducuing a teenage boy:

http://www.thecctv.org/thecctv/articles/paedophilescharter.htm

You folks in the USA should speak gently but firmly but you should speak up, but without targeting the homosexual. That person needs Jesus. The government are more pro some of these things than the people themselves

1% of the population is homosexual! A tiny minority!

 

[SharonL]

I shop at Wal-Mart, from a small town - we don't have many choices to shop and I was concerned about this - so I wrote to the home office and ask them - here is their reply.
===============
Thank you for your message.

The American Family Association is distributing information about the Walmart.com affiliate program and is suggesting that Wal-Mart contributes 5% of online sales to a gay and lesbian group. We want to take this opportunity to clarify our affiliate program and the misinformation that is being circulated.

Just as our stores try to find new ways to serve the 127 million customers who shop with us each week, Walmart.com is working to attract online customers with a variety of programs and promotions. Our affiliate program is designed to drive web traffic to our site and is a common marketing practice that is used by many other major online retailers, including amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com, and disneystore.com.

More than 43,000 organizations participate in walmart.coms affiliates program and over 100 Christian organizations also participate in the program. Affiliates ask to be included in the program and receive a small percentage of the sales that result from the customers they refer.

Wal-Mart does not evaluate the viewpoints or political agenda of potential affiliates, and acceptance as an affiliate does not convey or imply an endorsement of a particular agenda or viewpoint. We are committed to serving our customers, and our affiliate program is one of the many ways that we do so.

The group identified by the American Family Association has been an affiliate of Walmart.com since 2002 and has referred exactly one sale for $41.73 to our site since joining our affiliate program. As a result, it would have collected $4.17.

For more information about the walmart.com affiliate program please visit: http://www.walmart.com/affiliate/aff_tc.html.

==============
Again - we cannot always believe everything we read or hear.

 

[jrlinz]

Thank you, Sharon. Wonder how many people know that they are not backing the 'homosexual agenda' any more than any other cause. I sure didn't.