Voddie Baucham sermon - "Why Keep the Sabbath Holy?"

[Bob S]

BR wrote:

Not according to Romans 7

Not according to Eph 6:2

Not according to Romans 13

Not according to James 2

And not in your own 2Cor3:6-11 reference



5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

Commands dealing with morality are eternal. A few are referenced in the engraved letters. That does not give you the privilege to tell us the verses you quoted refer to only the ten thus making a mockery of 2Cor3.

Paul is not saying "the command to honor parents is fading way" in 2 Cor 3 - as Paul proves in Eph 6:2.

No one has ever said Paul wrote that. I am so sorry you cannot read what Paul wrote objectionably. Your feeble attempt to use other scripture to deny the simple fact that Paul wrote is an extremely decrepit attempt to cover up the real truth of his statement.

Paul is not saying "the command to not take God's name in vain is fading away" in 2 Cor 3 - as almost every Christian on planet Earth knows.

No one has ever said Paul wrote that. I am so sorry you cannot read what Paul wrote objectionably. Your feeble attempt to use other scripture to deny the simple fact that Paul wrote is an extremely decrepit attempt to cover up the real truth of his statement.

He contrasts the New Covenant having the SAME moral law known to Jeremiah and his readers WRITTEN on the heart Jer 31:31-33 with that law held in an external-only condition because the person is not saved. By deleting vs 1-5 you missed the entire context for your text reference.

The letter written on our hearts is the letter from Christ not the letter written on stone which became the ministry of death as Paul proclaimed in verse 7. You, for some reason, didn't mention verse 6 which is very important. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

It seems very plain that the ten commandments, the letter, was the old covenant. It is the covenant of the life-giving Holy Spirit.

The letter, ten commandments kill whether on stone or if you believe on our hearts. Either place it is the ministry of death.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not according to Romans 7

Not according to Eph 6:2

Not according to Romans 13

Not according to James 2

And not in your own 2Cor3:6-11 reference



5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.




No one has ever said Paul wrote that. I am so sorry you cannot read what Paul wrote objectionably. Your feeble attempt to use other scripture to deny the simple fact that Paul wrote is an extremely decrepit attempt to cover up the real truth of his statement.


No one has ever said Paul wrote that. I am so sorry you cannot read what Paul wrote objectionably. Your feeble attempt to use other scripture to deny the simple fact that Paul wrote is an extremely decrepit attempt to cover up the real truth of his statement.



The letter written on our hearts is the letter from Christ not the letter written on stone which became the ministry of death as Paul proclaimed in verse 7. You, for some reason, didn't mention verse 6 which is very important. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

It seems very plain that the ten commandments, the letter, was the old covenant. It is the covenant of the life-giving Holy Spirit.

The letter, ten commandments kill whether on stone or if you believe on our hearts. Either place it is the ministry of death.

Just curious if you ever stop to think about what you're saying- obeying the ten commandments kills? Really?

Do you honestly think doing these things like worshipping other gods, murder coveting is fine, but when we obey God it kills? This reminds me of the very first lie we heard in the garden.

Exodus 20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

If one is walking by the Spirit, they are not an enmity to the law of God. Romans 8:1-8

 

[Bob S]

Just curious is you ever stop to think about what you're saying- obeying the ten commandments kills? Really?

Do you honestly think doing these things like worshipping other gods, murder coveting is fine, but when we obey God it kills? This reminds me of the very first lie we heard in the garden.

Did I ever write such a thing SB? Your exaggerated thinking tells a story. Paul wrote that the letters engraved on stone were the ministry of death. They couldn't save even one Israelite; all they could do is condemn anyone who didn't live up to the commands. How God dealt with each individual was His call. Obeying the commands or not obeying them never had any bearing on a person's life. The thief was saved because he believed and so are we. The false notion that you Adventists have that I cannot be saved unless I walk the walk you walk is diametrically opposed to what is taught in scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

Commands dealing with morality are eternal.

agreed.


"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
James 2 quoting from the Law of Moses "He who breaks one - breaks them all"
Is 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

1 John 5:3 "THis IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Where "'Honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in that still-valid unit of TEN.

That does not give you the privilege to tell us the verses you quoted refer to only the ten

I never say that -- and you have no quote of me saying "it only applies to the ten" rather it includes the ten.

details matter - as noted in my prior post details

 

[BobRyan]

Paul is not saying "the command to honor parents is fading way" in 2 Cor 3 - as Paul proves in Eph 6:2.

No one has ever said Paul wrote that.

I find it odd that we now find you affirming the unit of Ten where "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

The LAW of God written on stone in Ex 20 is written on the tablets of the human heart 2 Cor 3 according to the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 where the moral law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers is written on the heart under the New Covenant.

I am so sorry you cannot read what Paul wrote

You will need to allow "more details" in the text to be included in your theology.

first step for you might be to read the OP and answer the question that is posted there for you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Did I ever write such a thing SB? Your exaggerated thinking tells a story. Paul wrote that the letters engraved on stone were the ministry of death. They couldn't save even one Israelite; all they could do is condemn anyone who didn't live up to the commands. How God dealt with each individual was His call. Obeying the commands or not obeying them never had any bearing on a person's life. The thief was saved because he believed and so are we. The false notion that you Adventists have that I cannot be saved unless I walk the walk you walk is diametrically opposed to what is taught in scripture.

Yup, you sure did which is why I asked you to think about what you are teaching...

The letter, ten commandments kill whether on stone or if you believe on our hearts. Either place it is the ministry of death.

Jesus says we need to obey, I am going with Jesus. Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19, John 14:15

 

[sparow]

A lot of people are incorrect on some teaching - my point with Baucham is the truths that he does hold are very interesting - one of them being the continued validity of the Commandments of God to all mankind and also the Bible seventh day Sabbath given in Eden applicable to all mankind as D.L. Moody also affirmed.

I was very impressed at the beginning, but his keeping of the first day of the week is indicative of false new covenant; which I will not appease.

 

[BobRyan]

I was very impressed at the beginning, but his keeping of the first day of the week is indicative...

"very impressed" would be an understatement for me - if it had turned out that someone who was asked to be one of the candidates for President of the Southern Baptist Convention in 2022 - was also a 7th day Bible Sabbath promoting Pastor. That would be very very remarkable.

But what we have is someone who affirms the same point that C.H. Spurgeon and the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19 -- affirm. Which is that all ten of the Ten Commandments are for all mankind ans that the Sabbath commandment has not been deleted from that unit of ten.

Which is not every detail lined up -- but it is a great many of the threads on this section of the board where Baucham's POV for all TEN still applying to all mankind would oppose the Ten-deleted or 1-of-ten-deleted posts.

 

[Emun]

Pastor Baucham got his M.Div from Southern Baptist Theological seminary.

"In March 2022, Baucham confirmed that he had been asked to accept a nomination for president of the Southern Baptist Convention, but noted that as an overseas missionary, he was not sure if he was eligible"

Interesting details brought out by Bauchman in this short sermon

Do you agree?

I think this is a fair summary of his points there - but if you find that I missed some I will add them here in a update

1. The only logical reason given for the 7 day week in the Bible - is the 7 days of creation in Gen 2:1-3
2. God's Law (specifically speaking of the TEN in this sermon) is a reflection of His character
3. The moral law of TEN - existed before Sinai
4. The Sabbath is in Gen 2 and is therefore - given before Sinai
5. Obeying God's Word is more about glorifying God than the more me-centered "what I can get out of it"

From what I saw of it - his statements are in agreement with the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19 (even as updated by C.H. Spurgeon).
Bauchman says he affirms the Baptist Confession of Faith.

Why should I keep the Sabbath, If Jesus himself didn't keep it (John 5:18).

 

[BobRyan]

Why should I keep the Sabbath, If Jesus himself didn't keep it (John 5:18).

Jesus' enemies accused him of breaking God's commandments? Is your point that Jesus was guilty? A sinner?

In John 5 the Jews accused Jesus of sin for the made-up crime of healing someone on Sabbath - but there is no part of the Law of Moses or any OT text saying that such a thing is a "sin"

In Mark 7:6-12 Jesus said the Jews were simply "making stuff up"

In the NT "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

Heb 4:15 Jesus was "without sin". Not because "sin was ok for Jesus to do" but rather He was true to His own claim in Matt 5 that He was in no case violating God's Law.

Mark 2:27 Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for MANKIND" - do you trust that Jesus was telling the truth? are you a member of "mankind" in your POV?

In Is 66:23 - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth.

Is it any wonder that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued "unit of TEN"

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II

 

[Emun]

Jesus' enemies accused him of breaking God's commandments?

The one who speaks in John 5:18 is not an enemy of Jesus. It is John the Evangelist who confirms that Jesus broke the Sabbath and that Jesus claimed to be God.

Is your point that Jesus was guilty? A sinner?

Jesus did not sin.

Here is an explanation of why Jesus broke the Sabbath:

The reason why Jesus broke the ceremonial commandments like the Sabbath was not because he was a sinner for he is sinless but because he wanted to show that these commandments are to be understood spiritually. The Sabbath was never to be the seventh day of the week. The Sabbath was Jesus Christ, who is the true rest in which we should enter, as Paul said. Paul also said that God never wanted animal sacrifices, but that the true sacrifice is Jesus. The Old Testament is only a shadow, the New Testament is the fulfilment and the reality.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Pastor Baucham got his M.Div from Southern Baptist Theological seminary.

"In March 2022, Baucham confirmed that he had been asked to accept a nomination for president of the Southern Baptist Convention, but noted that as an overseas missionary, he was not sure if he was eligible"

Interesting details brought out by Bauchman in this short sermon

Do you agree?

I think this is a fair summary of his points there - but if you find that I missed some I will add them here in a update

1. The only logical reason given for the 7 day week in the Bible - is the 7 days of creation in Gen 2:1-3
2. God's Law (specifically speaking of the TEN in this sermon) is a reflection of His character
3. The moral law of TEN - existed before Sinai
4. The Sabbath is in Gen 2 and is therefore - given before Sinai
5. Obeying God's Word is more about glorifying God than the more me-centered "what I can get out of it"

From what I saw of it - his statements are in agreement with the Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19 (even as updated by C.H. Spurgeon).
Bauchman says he affirms the Baptist Confession of Faith.

Does God stop the sun from rising when He rests on the seventh day? Jesus said He did not. (John 5:17, Matthew 5:45) God set it apart not by not working, but by not creating anything on that day. The speaker should explain why Jesus says God is working on the seventh day.

TEN reflecting God’s character means the King of kings has a father and mother? And before Sinai, the Israelites made a golden calf, right?

 

[BobRyan]

Does God stop the sun from rising when He rests on the seventh day?

Should He?
Do we stop the sun from rising when we rest on the 7th day??

Jesus said He did not. (John 5:17, Matthew 5:45)

err... umm... "ok".

What does that have to do with anything?

Is it your view that God pushes the sun around for 6 days?

God set it apart not by not working, but by not creating anything on that day.

Ok -- I think we agree that God was "still God".

Not clear to me that Baucham was claiming God winked out of existence on the 7th day.

The speaker should explain why Jesus says God is working on the seventh day.

Jesus said that it is lawful to do salvation work, healing work, life saving work on the Sabbath -- BEFORE the cross even happened. He was not saying "some day in the future that will be ok to do but you will need to wait until after the cross"

So then we are talking about the fact that even in the OT context certain things did happen. For example they had temple guards that worked on Sabbath as well as priests as well as God as well as Christ spreading the gospel, as well as pastors today spreading the gospel on Sabbath.

Even so - God's word speaks about not doing secular activity on Sabbath in Is 58:13
“If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot
From doing as you wish on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

And God says Sabbath is a day of "holy convocation" in Lev 23:3

TEN reflecting God’s character means the King of kings has a father and mother?

Or more reasonably it means God's character is one that demands that in families children honor parents.

And before Sinai, the Israelites made a golden calf, right?

Indeed - and it was "a bad thing" even before they had the Ten handed to them on stone - they were held accountable for it.
Also true in Gen 4 -- Cain was being held accountable to the command not to kill/murder - long before stones were chiseled at Sinai.

No wonder - almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued "unit of TEN"

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II

 

[Cornelius8L]

Should He?
Do we stop the sun from rising when we rest on the 7th day??
err... umm... "ok".

What does that have to do with anything?

Is it your view that God pushes the sun around for 6 days?
Ok -- I think we agree that God was "still God".

Not clear to me that Baucham was claiming God winked out of existence on the 7th day.


Jesus said that it is lawful to do salvation work, healing work, life saving work on the Sabbath -- BEFORE the cross even happened. He was not saying "some day in the future that will be ok to do but you will need to wait until after the cross"

So then we are talking about the fact that even in the OT context certain things did happen. For example they had temple guards that worked on Sabbath as well as priests as well as God as well as Christ spreading the gospel, as well as pastors today spreading the gospel on Sabbath.

Even so - God's word speaks about not doing secular activity on Sabbath in Is 58:13
“If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot
From doing as you wish on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

And God says Sabbath is a day of "holy convocation" in Lev 23:3

If, for example, He needs to rest from all work that doesn't have to do with salvation, then He can't let anyone die on the seventh day, for "The LORD brings death" (1 Sam 2:6). He's not resting if that's not the case, and Christ confirmed that. God does things like make the sun rise and send rain on the seventh day. He also caused drought, plague, famine, or floods on the seventh day of Noah's flood. (Matt 5:45) Baucham needs to say what kind of work God rested from, because it's clear that God didn't stop doing all work; he only stopped creation work.

When we observe Lev 23:3 and Isaiah 58:13, we are obligated by Nums 28:9-10 to offer special sacrifices on the Sabbath. Therefore, if ordinances were abolished at the cross, how can the holy convocation requirement of Lev 23:3 still stand?

Or more reasonably it means God's character is one that demands that in families children honor parents.

So, saying that TEN shows God's character is just a human idea, since God can never steal or commit adultery.

Indeed - and it was "a bad thing" even before they had the Ten handed to them on stone - they were held accountable for it.
Also true in Gen 4 -- Cain was being held accountable to the command not to kill/murder - long before stones were chiseled at Sinai.

No wonder - almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued "unit of TEN"

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II

Making idol and murder is different. To kill someone is to hurt them physically, and no one wants to be hurt.

People make idols because they want to find peace of mind. For example, a church denomination establishes its doctrines. But why does a church need to develop a list of doctrines when they are already in the Bible? The list of doctrines is an IMAGE of the Bible, but it is unnecessary. Similarly, Aaron, who had previously been designated as God's high priest in Exodus 28, when they (+Aaron) erected the idol in Exodus 32:2-5, they thought it was an image of God, but they were incorrect. Similarly, some churches obtain their doctrines from the Bible through misreading it.

 

[BobRyan]

If, for example, He needs to rest from all work that doesn't have to do with salvation, then He can't let anyone die on the seventh day, for "The LORD brings death" (1 Sam 2:6). ..

how is that different from what I just said?

...Jesus said that it is lawful to do salvation work, healing work, life saving work on the Sabbath -- BEFORE the cross even happened. He was not saying "some day in the future that will be ok to do but you will need to wait until after the cross"

So then we are talking about the fact that even in the OT context certain things did happen. For example they had temple guards that worked on Sabbath as well as priests as well as God as well as Christ spreading the gospel, as well as pastors today spreading the gospel on Sabbath.

Even so - God's word speaks about not doing secular activity on Sabbath in Is 58:13
“If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot
From doing as you wish on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,

When we observe Lev 23:3 and Isaiah 58:13, we are obligated by Nums 28:9-10 to offer special sacrifices on the Sabbath.

Gen 2:1-3 when the day was blessed , made holy, sanctified - no animal sacrifices needed to observe it
Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" no animal sacrifice needed to observe it
Acts 18:4 - "Every Sabbath" Paul is preaching the Gospel to gentiles and Jews in the Synagogue -- no animal sacrifices needed to do it
Heb 10:4-12 animal sacrifices end at the cross

 

[BobRyan]

The one who speaks in John 5:18 is not an enemy of Jesus. It is John the Evangelist who confirms that Jesus broke the Sabbath and that Jesus claimed to be God.

Jesus did not sin.

John says "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT - 1 John 3:4
But the Jews accused Jesus of sin many times.

You are ripping the text out of context to get to the idea that Jesus broke God's Commandments.

Here is an explanation of why Jesus broke the Sabbath:

John said - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT - 1 John 3:4
John said - "this IS the LOVE of God that you KEEP My Commandments"
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
where "'honor your father and mother' is the first COMMANDMENT with a promise" Eph 6:2
Rom 3:31 "what then ? Do we make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

context matters.

Matt 5 Jesus condemns anyone who sets aside even the least of God's commandments.

In Acts 10 Peter says "you know that it is not lawful for a Jew to enter the house of a gentile"

28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.

In fact there is no such law in scripture - but it was understood among Jews and gentiles who knew the custom of Jews - that their traditions made this unlawful.

Jesus did not sin -- He broken none of the commands of God.
Jesus challenges the Jews point blank -
John tells us that Jesus' accusers could not find a single point where Jesus actually violated scripture
John 8:46 "Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?"

========================

your answer to Jesus seems to be that the Jews were saying "we all know that you sin" or are you claiming they would be saying "well oddly enough we know you don't sin because although it is a sin for us to break the commandments of God - it is strangely not a sin when you do it"

 

[Cornelius8L]

how is that different from what I just said?

The difference is that letting a gentile die on the seventh day is not salvation work. Letting a plague spread on the seventh day is not a salvation work. God doesn't just work on salvation on the seventh day. He works on everything.

When we observe Lev 23:3 and Isaiah 58:13, we are obligated by Nums 28:9-10 to offer special sacrifices on the Sabbath. Therefore, if ordinances were abolished at the cross, how can the holy convocation requirement of Lev 23:3 still stand?

Gen 2:1-3 when the day was blessed , made holy, sanctified - no animal sacrifices needed to observe it
Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" no animal sacrifice needed to observe it
Acts 18:4 - "Every Sabbath" Paul is preaching the Gospel to gentiles and Jews in the Synagogue -- no animal sacrifices needed to do it
Heb 10:4-12 animal sacrifices end at the cross

Before the law, there were never any rules about how to observe the seventh day.

Isa 66:23 says "from one Sabbath to the next," which means "every day." If we say an infant cries from morning to morning, we mean he cries every hour, not just in the morning but also in the afternoon and evening.

Paul preached every day in places where people gathered, even in public places like the market. (Acts 17:17)

 

[Emun]

John says "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT - 1 John 3:4
But the Jews accused Jesus of sin many times.

You are ripping the text out of context to get to the idea that Jesus broke God's Commandments.

The sacrifices are also commandments of the Law. Are you still going to sacrifice? No. And why? Because Jesus is the true sacrifice, not some animals. The same is with the Sabbath. I don't keep the Sabbath on the 7th day because Jesus is the true Sabbath. He is the true rest (Matthew 11:28).

These commandments were just shadows pointing to Jesus. When Jesus was finally on earth, he broke these commandments to show the Jews that he is the fulfillment of these commandments. But the Jews did not understand.

Read John 5:17, Jesus himself says that he worked and John confirms this in verse 18.

 

[BobRyan]

The sacrifices are also commandments of the Law. Are you still going to sacrifice?

And only God can set them as completed/ended.

Heb 10:4-12 says specifically of "sacrifices and offerings" -- "He sets aside the first to establish the second" referring to the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

No wonder the sunday-keeping Christian scholarship I keep referencing - affirms all TEN of the TEN commandments as being included in the moral law of God - but they all reject animal sacrifices by saying (as in the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19) that they end at the cross - as per Heb 10.

No. And why?

Because God very specifically ends them in Heb 10:4-12 -- no guessing -- it is stated flat out.

 

[BobRyan]

Read John 5:17, Jesus himself says that he worked and John confirms this in verse 18.

Jesus did not say "after the cross I will work on Sabbath" - in John 5 --
Rather Jesus said that this was already the case for God - in precross , OT times.

When as Jesus said

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

In the most extreme commandment-of-God-rejecting arguments so far - we have yet to find that

1. "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 was "deleted before the cross... in Matt 5"
2. "Sabbath breaking was just fine - before the cross"
3. "ALL prophecy was fulfilled in Matt 5 - before the cross even happened"