Virginity and sin - seeking advice

[zephcom]

Which is, of course, part of the objective. I would not want to date a woman who would walk away if asked this question because that would already signify irreconcilable differences. I also suspect that there is a very strong correlation between walking out the door and not being a virgin.

Which is exactly why I said that asking the question is like looking for a breeder animal and not a life long companion.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Which is exactly why I said that asking the question is like looking for a breeder animal and not a life long companion.

You are (deliberately?) missing the point. It has nothing to do with being a "breeder animal", but has everything to do with character. And character is extremely important when assessing someone as suitable for a life-long companion.

 

[zephcom]

You are (deliberately?) missing the point. It has nothing to do with being a "breeder animal", but has everything to do with character. And character is extremely important when assessing someone as suitable for a life-long companion.

An unbroken hymen has nothing at all to do with character. The condition of one's physical body does not define one's spiritual life or one's character.

 

[Jon Osterman]

An unbroken hymen has nothing at all to do with character. The condition of one's physical body does not define one's spiritual life or one's character.

One's actions certainly do have plenty to do with character, and having sex before marriage is most certainly an action. I don't see how you can think this is not true.

But irrespective of whether you think it is OK to sleep around before marriage or not, your posts are proving my point. A woman who shared your views would never want to be in a relationship with someone like me, so why would you want to prolong the agony?

 

[zephcom]

One's actions certainly do have plenty to do with character, and having sex before marriage is most certainly an action. I don't see how you can think this is not true.

But irrespective of whether you think it is OK to sleep around before marriage or not, your posts are proving my point. A woman who shared your views would never want to be in a relationship with someone like me, so why would you want to prolong the agony?

IMMHO, a woman who IS a virgin should avoid marriage with someone like you also.

 

[Jon Osterman]

IMMHO, a woman who IS a virgin should avoid marriage with someone like you also.

You are entitled to your opinion. My wife was a virgin when we married and I am sure she agrees with my point of view.

 

[Holoman]

I disagree. Rape aside (which is obviously a special case), whether the person has remained a virgin says a lot about their character and their values. It is all very well to regret it after the fact and now want to save sex for marriage, but the very act of having sex previously is a strong statement of personality.

I'd agree it says something about their values in the past but not necessarily their current values. Not everyone has a religious upbringing and plenty only convert when they are adults and have committed a multitude of sins they spent their younger lives being told was ok.

 

[zephcom]

You are entitled to your opinion. My wife was a virgin when we married and I am sure she agrees with my point of view.

I do appreciate being allowed to my opinion.

I don't know your wife so I can't possibly know whether what you say is right or not.

 

[Jon Osterman]

I'd agree it says something about their values in the past but not necessarily their current values. Not everyone has a religious upbringing and plenty only convert when they are adults and have committed a multitude of sins they spent their younger lives being told was ok.

Again, I strongly disagree. A willingness to commit sins, whether a Christian or not, is a strong (negative) indicator of character that stays with you all your life. God has placed the knowledge of His Law in our hearts so that we might know right from wrong even before we are saved. Remember that Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We all have that knowledge. We actually see evidence of the opposite effect every day too - good people doing good things even though they are not saved.

 

[zephcom]

Again, I strongly disagree. A willingness to commit sins, whether a Christian or not, is a strong (negative) indicator of character that stays with you all your life. God has placed the knowledge of His Law in our hearts so that we might know right from wrong even before we are saved. Remember that Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We all have that knowledge. We actually see evidence of the opposite effect every day too - good people doing good things even though they are not saved.

There is no room for redemption in your life, huh?

 

[Jon Osterman]

There is no room for redemption in your life, huh?

Of course there is. I would not judge or condemn anyone who wants to have sex outside of marriage. That is up to them, and their decision. But it is a completely different thing to want to share your life with them!

 

[Holoman]

Again, I strongly disagree. A willingness to commit sins, whether a Christian or not, is a strong (negative) indicator of character that stays with you all your life. God has placed the knowledge of His Law in our hearts so that we might know right from wrong even before we are saved. Remember that Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We all have that knowledge. We actually see evidence of the opposite effect every day too - good people doing good things even though they are not saved.

Interesting. Both me and my girlfriend have checkered histories, maybe that's why I tend not to find these kind of things important.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Interesting. Both me and my girlfriend have checkered histories, maybe that's why I tend not to find these kind of things important.

Exactly! I would not condemn you for your "checkered histories" and trust that you are saved by Jesus' blood and your sins have been forgiven. But it shows that you are on the same page regarding what you think is important in life. That sort of congruency is important for a relationship and therefore requiring your girlfriend to be a virgin is an entirely reasonable step to help guarantee that congruency.

 

[zephcom]

Of course there is. I would not judge or condemn anyone who wants to have sex outside of marriage. That is up to them, and their decision. But it is a completely different thing to want to share your life with them!

Interesting. Their redemption with God is sufficient to land them in Heaven. But you have much higher standards than even God, huh?

See?? This is the kind of thing which tends to give men a 'god complex' which often leads to a miserable life for wife. It is much easier for a wife to get along with someone who understands his place in life and is, therefore, a lot more tolerant with others.

And, it is the reason why even a virgin should keep on looking for the right man. It is the reason why I said to the lady who started the thread that she married the wrong man. She is clearly afraid to tell him something which might anger him. A woman should never need to be afraid to tell her husband something.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

whether the person has remained a virgin says a lot about their character and their values.

A willingness to commit sins, whether a Christian or not, is a strong (negative) indicator of character that stays with you all your life.

Perhaps you have missed reading 2 Corinthians 5 v 17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."

 

[Jon Osterman]

Perhaps you have missed reading 2 Corinthians 5 v 17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."

I didn't miss reading it, but I think you missed understanding it.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Interesting. Their redemption with God is sufficient to land them in Heaven. But you have much higher standards than even God, huh?

Which part of "not judge nor condemn" did you not understand?

See?? This is the kind of thing which tends to give men a 'god complex' which often leads to a miserable life for wife. It is much easier for a wife to get along with someone who understands his place in life and is, therefore, a lot more tolerant with others.

Ironically, you are displaying an attitude of condescention and moral superiority. You sound pretty hard to get on with.

And, it is the reason why even a virgin should keep on looking for the right man. It is the reason why I said to the lady who started the thread that she married the wrong man. She is clearly afraid to tell him something which might anger him. A woman should never need to be afraid to tell her husband something.

If you had bothered reading the OP, you would have seen that she is anxious because she deliberately deceived and misled him. And he did absolutely nothing to deserve that. Yet he is receiving your condemnation because he dared to ask about her sexual history.

Seriously, are you trolling, or are you just unable to grasp simple concepts?

 

[zephcom]

Which part of "not judge nor condemn" did you not understand?



Ironically, you are displaying an attitude of condescention and moral superiority. You sound pretty hard to get on with.



If you had bothered reading the OP, you would have seen that she is anxious because she deliberately deceived and misled him. And he did absolutely nothing to deserve that. Yet he is receiving your condemnation because he dared to ask about her sexual history.

Seriously, are you trolling, or are you just unable to grasp simple concepts?

Not trolling. But I am interested in defending women from people who will put them down and objectify them.

Had you listened to me, you would understand that I didn't put him down. I lifted her up. I suspect there are people who can't grasp the difference. I hope you are not one of them.

Finally, I suspect I am getting harder and harder to get on with as I realize the immense amount of degradation and abuse women live with on a daily basis because of the patriarchal society we live in. And so much of the enablement of this behavior towards women comes out of the parts of Christian society which believes they have to attempt to live life as it was two thousand years ago when a girl was owned by her father until she was married and then owned by her husband.

Women are not to be owned. Women are to be loved, cherished and encouraged to be free to become the best she can be.

I recall the way Paul, in I Corinthians 13, described real love for other people. It should apply to women as well as men.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't think I've ever met anyone that broke up with a girl because she wasn't a virgin.

I have not met one in person, but I have talked on line to at least a dozen.

 

[Dave-W]

whether the person has remained a virgin says a lot about their character and their values.

I would say it is more important HOW and why they stayed a virgin that the mere fact that they did.

Was it out of fear of relating to people?
Was it from lack of opportunity?
Was it from legalism?