Views of Evolution Depend on Knowledge

[OldWiseGuy]

The content of your posts, would say something different.

Criticism isn't hatred.

 

[bhsmte]

Criticism isn't hatred.

Cant get around what you write, it tells us about you, your thought process and motivation.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I agree. That's the disconnect, as I have stated several times.

No, you're not saying THAT'S the disconnect. The disconnect you you actually talking about is that they aren't Christian.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

You missed the main point: Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Yet Sin is a term without rational foundation.

I agree that it's "natural" in the sense that it is the natural consequence of something gone terribly wrong.

so again, not these peoples' fault, right? Why would you and your God discriminate against people who are who they are through no fault of their own?

You asked for an example of a "latrine" from the bible. I gave you one.

Granted, you did indeed.

Do you think the Israelites pooped on the ground at home? God gave Israel his laws so they would not be like the nations around them. God instructed Israel concerning many hygiene practices under the guise of commanded religious ritual, as they wouldn't understand the true purpose which was to rid them of diseases.

Well, the question has to be asked because they might have pooped at home - After all, why would there have to be a specific mention made for war camps as opposed to any other camp, settlement or existence otherwise?

Fast forward to today. Our military still instructs soldiers to dig a "cat hole" and bury their poop, in the absence of a camp latrine.

Are the reasons given for this as so God can deliver thine enemies unto the camp for them, or is there some other reason?

To repeat, you are making connections that aren't there.

You just told me you voted for Trump because you agree with his policies. How is that not a connection? Let's put it another way and demonstrate this once and for all. Imagine you have two candidates for Governor in your state. These two candidates parallel each other in every respect, however Candidate "A" on being elected will move to allow homosexual couples to marry and enjoy all the same legal protection and societal benefits afforded to heterosexual couples, while Candidate "B" will move to protect and fortify the "sanctity" of marriage in the eyes of his "Lord" by outlawing homosexual marriage and protecting public servants and business owners dealing with the public from human rights and discrimination laws for denying/excluding goods and services to and for homosexuals based on personally held religious beliefs.

Would you be able to pick Candidate A or B at the election booth on what you know here?

If so, Which One and Why? Extra points if you can explain how that decision is not connected to your belief and how your belief doesn't affect the policies that will be written into law and how those new laws don't affect the people for whom the laws apply?

TBD in the resurrection, but I have hope for everyone.

So what of Atheists who live a good life in every other respect, but just can't force themselves to believe in Jesus for lack of evidence? Do they get judged to annihilation?

Happy to oblige. Here is this years scheduled list.

Jan- Smile Train
Feb-Salvation Army
Mar-American Red Cross
Apr- Paralyzed Vets
May-Care
Jun-Doctors Without Borders
Jul-Feed The Children
Aug-Second Harvest
Sep-Oxfam
Oct-Local charity TBD
Nov-Local food pantry TBD
Dec-Special local appeal TBD

I also sometimes support clean water programs, especially in Africa. These are online contributions that I don't record.

If this is truly the case, then I certainly have to commend you for your even-handed philanthropy - I'm impressed, impressed indeed.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Cant get around what you write, it tells us about you, your thought process and motivation.

You are welcome to your opinion.

 

[bhsmte]

You are welcome to your opinion.

And thanks for keep providing the clues.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yet Sin is a term without rational foundation.

To the sinner maybe.

God's law, and man's law, determine what sin is, i.e., "Sin is the transgression of (the) law."

so again, not these peoples' fault, right? Why would you and your God discriminate against people who are who they are through no fault of their own?

It may not be their fault, but it's their responsibility. Some are born thieves (klepto's), but they must control that behavior.

Well, the question has to be asked because they might have pooped at home - After all, why would there have to be a specific mention made for war camps as opposed to any other camp, settlement or existence otherwise?

Soldiers are careless. Personal hygiene in the field is a challenge for any army at any time in history, as evidenced by the fact that even today's soldiers have to be instructed in that regard. I find unburied poop all over the woods every deer season. Men are often quite uncivilized (and uncouth) when in the company of other men.

Are the reasons given for this as so God can deliver thine enemies unto the camp for them, or is there some other reason?

Sanitation. Disease is as great an enemy as......the enemy. Read up on it, especially the Civil War experience.

You just told me you voted for Trump because you agree with his policies. How is that not a connection? Let's put it another way and demonstrate this once and for all. Imagine you have two candidates for Governor in your state. These two candidates parallel each other in every respect, however Candidate "A" on being elected will move to allow homosexual couples to marry and enjoy all the same legal protection and societal benefits afforded to heterosexual couples, while Candidate "B" will move to protect and fortify the "sanctity" of marriage in the eyes of his "Lord" by outlawing homosexual marriage and protecting public servants and business owners dealing with the public from human rights and discrimination laws for denying/excluding goods and services to and for homosexuals based on personally held religious beliefs.

Would you be able to pick Candidate A or B at the election booth on what you know here?

If so, Which One and Why? Extra points if you can explain how that decision is not connected to your belief and how your belief doesn't affect the policies that will be written into law and how those new laws don't affect the people for whom the laws apply?

I wouldn't vote for either, based on those choices. I said I agree with most of Trumps proposals. Regarding gay marriage, I'm not opposed to it, but for reasons other than accommodation (it reduces the incidence of AIDS and other STD's, as it does in the straight community, as so has a positive effect on medical costs).

So what of Atheists who live a good life in every other respect, but just can't force themselves to believe in Jesus for lack of evidence? Do they get judged to annihilation?

I have faith that they will get their evidence in the resurrection.

If this is truly the case, then I certainly have to commend you for your even-handed philanthropy - I'm impressed, impressed indeed.

Thanks. I try to spread it around (money that is ).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And thanks for keep providing the clues.

Yer welcome.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, you're not saying THAT'S the disconnect. The disconnect you you actually talking about is that they aren't Christian.

The disconnect is that their religion doesn't provide the moral imperatives to properly dispose of their excrement. It is also thought that they resist the 'Christian' way because their own 'gods' will punish them ("bring disaster" upon them, in their words) if they stray from their native traditions.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

To the sinner maybe.

God's law, and man's law, determine what sin is, i.e., "Sin is the transgression of (the) law."

Well, we know Man exists, so laws laid out by men in a reasoned and informed way make sense to follow. In that regard, I'm no sinner.

If there is a God and he wants me to follow his law, then he'll have to come forward from the crowd and identify himself clearly, then he can explain his laws to me in a way that would be plain and simple so I have no chance of misunderstanding it for outdated laws of long gone tribes of the middle east.

It may not be their fault, but it's their responsibility. Some are born thieves (klepto's), but they must control that behavior.

I don't accept that some are born "thieves" to such a point that it's a serious problem in society - kleptomaniacs being the exception that is managed, in the same way psychopaths are an exception to consideration for your fellow human beings in societies that likewise need managing. A sexual preference isn't in the same category, I'm afraid. We know this because we've learned that it's something that occurs naturally at around 5% to 10% across all mammals. Hardly the same as kleptomaniacs and psychopaths (at about 1% of general population each).

Soldiers are careless. Personal hygiene in the field is a challenge for any army at any time in history, as evidenced by the fact that even today's soldiers have to be instructed in that regard. I find unburied poop all over the woods every deer season. Men are often quite uncivilized (and uncouth) when in the company of other men.

Right. That's not the reason for the biblical message about poop burying though.

Sanitation. Disease is as great an enemy as......the enemy. Read up on it, especially the Civil War experience.

...so no God walking into the camp like in the bible then, right? Because that's Definitely the reason for Camp Clean in the Bible...

I wouldn't vote for either, based on those choices. I said I agree with most of Trumps proposals. Regarding gay marriage, I'm not opposed to it, but for reasons other than accommodation (it reduces the incidence of AIDS and other STD's, as it does in the straight community, as so has a positive effect on medical costs).

Wait, I don't understand what you mean here, what reduces the incidents of AIDS and other STD's? Not being allowed to Marry??

I also have to disagree with your self-assessment as not a liberal given everything you've listed here squares you smack bang in the middle of liberal progressive leaning. If you do indeed abstain from voting rather than for or against your beliefs and understanding of the world around you, then you're more humanist than Christian.

I have faith that they will get their evidence in the resurrection.

but no evidence?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The disconnect is that their religion doesn't provide the moral imperatives to properly dispose of their excrement. It is also thought that they resist the 'Christian' way because their own 'gods' will punish them ("bring disaster" upon them, in their words) if they stray from their native traditions.

... I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall with this. The problem in Africa and India isn't a religious one, it's a economic one. You're the one making an issue out of it being a religious issue when you shouldn't and don't need to.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, we know Man exists, so laws laid out by men in a reasoned and informed way make sense to follow. In that regard, I'm no sinner.

If there is a God and he wants me to follow his law, then he'll have to come forward from the crowd and identify himself clearly, then he can explain his laws to me in a way that would be plain and simple so I have no chance of misunderstanding it for outdated laws of long gone tribes of the middle east.

God laws go farther than similar laws of man, and are revealed by the Spirit.

I don't accept that some are born "thieves" to such a point that it's a serious problem in society - kleptomaniacs being the exception that is managed, in the same way psychopaths are an exception to consideration for your fellow human beings in societies that likewise need managing. A sexual preference isn't in the same category, I'm afraid. We know this because we've learned that it's something that occurs naturally at around 5% to 10% across all mammals. Hardly the same as kleptomaniacs and psychopaths (at about 1% of general population each).

Do homosexual animals consummate sodomy?

Right. That's not the reason for the biblical message about poop burying though.

Covered that already.

Wait, I don't understand what you mean here, what reduces the incidents of AIDS and other STD's? Not being allowed to Marry??

Just the opposite. Read it again.

but no evidence?

Faith is the evidence.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

... I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall with this. The problem in Africa and India isn't a religious one, it's a economic one. You're the one making an issue out of it being a religious issue when you shouldn't and don't need to.

It's more of a cultural one more closely tied to religion than to economics. Making it simply an economic problem relieves them of any moral responsibility.

My information comes from experts that study these things. Lots of info out there.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It's more of a cultural one more closely tied to religion than to economics. Making it simply an economic problem relieves them of any moral responsibility.

It is an economic issue. More money means more access to toilets and plumbing, meaning less waste. Making this a cultural or religious issue is incredibly asinine, and also a little bit racist.

My information comes from experts that study these things. Lots of info out there.

I don't think you're getting your information from anyone apart yourself, and it sounds so much like you're pulling it right from your rearend.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It is an economic issue. More money means more access to toilets and plumbing, meaning less waste. Making this a cultural or religious issue is incredibly asinine, and also a little bit racist.


I don't think you're getting your information from anyone apart yourself, and it sounds so much like you're pulling it right from your rearend.

Why do I sense that you are taking this issue personally? I have already posted articles that support my assertions.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Why do I sense that you are taking this issue personally? I have already posted articles that support my assertions.

Only one article you linked says anything about it being cultural and neither of them say anything about religion.
You are making a mountain out of a molehill. IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Only one article you linked says anything about it being cultural and neither of them say anything about religion.
You are making a mountain out of a molehill. IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION!

I don't post every source that I study.

Read this. Many articles point out the same problems.

Just building a million latrines won't solve Africa's sanitation crisis | Juanita During

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Read this. Many articles point out the same problems.

Just building a million latrines won't solve Africa's sanitation crisis | Juanita During

Again, that article mentions NOTHING about culture or religion. It's purely about economics and how Africa shouldn't be dependent on the First World to solve all of it's problems.
Do you even read the things you link to?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Again, that article mentions NOTHING about culture or religion. It's purely about economics and how Africa shouldn't be dependent on the First World to solve all of it's problems.
Do you even read the things you link to?

As you didn't read it let me quote it for you.

"In many rural areas in west Africa, the practice of open-air defecation is ritualised and bound in tradition. Beyond individual differences, the members of a group or society are united by similar ways of thinking and behaving, and will react to situations in similar ways. Our research showed that reasons for resistance to using a latrine included beliefs that one might be possessed by demons, lose magical powers or live a shorter life. Some believe a toilet is meant only for wealthy people or that, if somebody feeds you, you should in turn defecate in their field."

This links the problem directly to their culture and religion.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

As you didn't read it let me quote it for you.

"In many rural areas in west Africa, the practice of open-air defecation is ritualised and bound in tradition. Beyond individual differences, the members of a group or society are united by similar ways of thinking and behaving, and will react to situations in similar ways. Our research showed that reasons for resistance to using a latrine included beliefs that one might be possessed by demons, lose magical powers or live a shorter life. Some believe a toilet is meant only for wealthy people or that, if somebody feeds you, you should in turn defecate in their field."

This links the problem directly to their culture and religion.

Does the link say that that's the case ACROSS THE WHOLE OF AFRICA?