USA= Babylon

[Reazzurro90]

YES IT HAS. JERSIGNIFYING FINALITY OF A PERPETUAL JUDGMENT OF GOD
64 And thou shalt say, thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah. IT IS STILL DESOLATE TO THIS DAY. ANCIENT BABYLON SITS ABOUT 60 MILES FROM BAGHDAD. SADDAM TRIED TO RESURRECT IT, BUT DIDN'T COMPLETE IT...LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM AND THE BOMBING THAT OUR NATION DID TO THAT COUNTRY. PROPHECY HAPPENING WAS MISSED BY THE CHURCH DURING THAT WAR.[/color]
IT ALSO SAYS THAT BABYLON WILL HAVE PERPETUAL DESOLATIONS. PERPETUAL MEANING CONTINUOUS...Jeremiah 25:9&12 ~ Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. 12) And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it PERPETUAL desolations.THIS IS GOING TO CARRY OVER TO MODERN DAY BABYLON IN REV 18...DESTROYED IN ONE HOUR...PERPETUAL DESOLATION UNTIL TAKEN OUT FOR GOOD.

Wrong. The prophecies are too specific to be fufilled. It talks of Babylon being "overthrown as Sodom and Gomorrah". Modern Babylon isn't even close to that. It's physically visible on the map, which it shouldn't be (because Sodom and Gomorrah haven't even been found). It was merely abandoned over time.

That alone discredits that prophecy has been fufilled. But if you extensively look at the prophecies, it's clear that Babylon is still to forgo judgement.
Yes, Saddam may have been overthrown, but a resurrected Babylon will still be fufilled. Not only has Saddam rebuilt immense parts of the city, but now that a new government is installed, oil funds are free to be used for rebuilding.

 

[NumberOneSon]

Not only has Saddam rebuilt immense parts of the city, but now that a new government is installed, oil funds are free to be used for rebuilding.

Oil funds can't even get Iraq's basic infrastructure off the ground, let alone pay for a billion dollar pet project.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[OhhJim]

Oil funds can't even get Iraq's basic infrastructure off the ground, let alone pay for a billion dollar pet project.

In 2005, yes.

By the time the tribulation rolls around in, say, 2075, a lot might have changed!! This is one big reason I think the Second Coming (in whatever form it takes, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, etc.) might POSSIBLY (I said possibly) be decades away. Babylon is not destroyed, nor is it a mighty city to be destroyed in one day, and mourned over. And neither does any other city or country fit the description of Babylon in Revelation. There are a few that come close, but no matches.

 

[Reazzurro90]

Oil funds can't even get Iraq's basic infrastructure off the ground, let alone pay for a billion dollar pet project.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

The Iraqi government has hardly been organized, how can you expect to get it all at once? The current Iraqi government is slowly gaining control of the country again, and has vowed to distribute oil equally among the Iraqi provinces. Today, the modern city of Hillah is considered to be the modern Babylon. Made almost entirely of the Babylonian ruins, and with a population of more than 300,000, it's a thriving city that already occupies the Babylon ruins proper.

The city which sits also on a sea of oil will only continue to thrive, and expand...Wouldn't a Babylon be the perfect setting for an Iraqi government to settle in? In the ancient capital of the Babylonian Empire, which united all of modern Iraq! In these modern times, a city won't be difficult or time-consuming to build.

 

[NumberOneSon]

The Iraqi government has hardly been organized, how can you expect to get it all at once?

My post was mainly in response to your quote - " oil funds are free to be used for rebuilding." The fact is they are not free at this point for rebuilding a 2500 year old city, and they won't be for a long time. Like OhhJim said, Iraq may no have the resources for such a project for decades.

The current Iraqi government is slowly gaining control of the country again, and has vowed to distribute oil equally among the Iraqi provinces. Today, the modern city of Hillah is considered to be the modern Babylon. Made almost entirely of the Babylonian ruins, and with a population of more than 300,000, it's a thriving city that already occupies the Babylon ruins proper.

So which is it; will the future Babylon be a rebuilt city based on the ancient Babylonian blueprint (famed hanging gardens and all), or will it be a modern city sitting on some of the ancient ruins that just goes by the name "Babylon"?

The city which sits also on a sea of oil will only continue to thrive, and expand...Wouldn't a Babylon be the perfect setting for an Iraqi government to settle in?

No, not when the seat of power is already settled in another well populated city. What would be the point of such a move? It would be like having the entire federal government in DC move to York, PA simply because the city held historical significance over 200 years ago.

Also, it should be noted that Iraq is only the 2nd largest producer of oil in the world, preceded by Saudi Arabia, and despite it's great wealth in oil, Arabia is hardly a world power and the majority of it's population comes close to living in 3rd World conditions. Same goes for Quwait, Iran, and the United Arab Emerates. So oil alone will not vault Iraq into the status of 'mover and shaker' in the world.

In the ancient capital of the Babylonian Empire, which united all of modern Iraq!

But Iraq isn't ancient Bablyon, and Iraq has little or no tangible connection to a civilization that vanished 2500 years ago. If anything, their religion is the true unifier of all Middle Eastern people, and yet even that is causing them to turn on each other. So a Babylonian rallying cry wouldn't do anything to unite the Muslim people. What makes you think the Iraqi people would rally around the idea of a new Babylon?

In these modern times, a city won't be difficult or time-consuming to build.

Sure it would, especially since Iraq is hardly "modern" and doesn't have the funds or the capacity to transplant it's entire governmental infrastructure from Bagdad to entirely new (and smaller) city built from the ground up. Unless Bagdad blows up, there is no reason to change the nation's capital.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Wrong. The prophecies are too specific to be fufilled. It talks of Babylon being "overthrown as Sodom and Gomorrah". Modern Babylon isn't even close to that. It's physically visible on the map, which it shouldn't be (because Sodom and Gomorrah haven't even been found). It was merely abandoned over time.

That alone discredits that prophecy has been fufilled. But if you extensively look at the prophecies, it's clear that Babylon is still to forgo judgement.
Yes, Saddam may have been overthrown, but a resurrected Babylon will still be fufilled. Not only has Saddam rebuilt immense parts of the city, but now that a new government is installed, oil funds are free to be used for rebuilding.

Wrong back at ya. Not if you think it is the ancient city. Does this look like a major sea port? Ancient Babylon sits in the desert, as well as Iraq. Where is the water that modern day Babylon talks about, with the shipmasters, and all the company in ships, and sailers, and as many as trade by sea crying when they saw the smoke of her burning? Parts of the city that Saddam had rebuilt are right over the ancient ruins. He rebuilt the gate of Ishtar and the colosseum....that's not immense parts of the city. Our Marines are living in the palace by the way.

The marines approach the ancient ruins of Babylon

 

[ross3421]

Wrong back at ya. Not if you think it is the ancient city. Does this look like a major sea port? Ancient Babylon sits in the desert, as well as Iraq. Where is the water that modern day Babylon talks about, with the shipmasters, and all the company in ships, and sailers, and as many as trade by sea crying when they saw the smoke of her burning? Parts of the city that Saddam had rebuilt are right over the ancient ruins. He rebuilt the gate of Ishtar and the colosseum....that's not immense parts of the city. Our Marines are living in the palace by the way.

Why does it have to be a major sea port ? I agree that it has to be somewhat close to water but perhaps not a major port. Notice the verse that you qouted that these folks are not on thier ships at the time but they are heaping dust upon thier heads.......... Actually it is the sabbath day and they have come off from thier ships and going to the city to worship the king whom they think is Christ on the sabath.

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter niether on the sabbath day:"

Babylon is NOT Iraq ect.. Babylon = (new) Jerusalem.

In Christ, Mark.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Why does it have to be a major sea port ? I agree that it has to be somewhat close to water but perhaps not a major port. Notice the verse that you qouted that these folks are not on thier ships at the time but they are heaping dust upon thier heads.......... Actually it is the sabbath day and they have come off from thier ships and going to the city to worship the king whom they think is Christ on the sabath.

"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter niether on the sabbath day:"

Babylon is NOT Iraq ect.. Babylon = (new) Jerusalem.

In Christ, Mark.

Does Jerusalem trade in all of these commodities listed? No. The USA does though .

 

[Reazzurro90]

My post was mainly in response to your quote - " oil funds are free to be used for rebuilding." The fact is they are not free at this point for rebuilding a 2500 year old city, and they won't be for a long time. Like OhhJim said, Iraq may no have the resources for such a project for decades.

Most oil refineries are already back on track in Iraq, and Iraqis are being employed. Your "long, long time" theory is not really applicable. Plus, as Iraq's stabilization is continued, revenue will pour in from the USA and European nations who want a cut of Iraqi oil, which for so long has been denied to them by Saddam's regime. Such a massive influx of revenue could allow the Iraqi government to rebuild Babylon.

So which is it; will the future Babylon be a rebuilt city based on the ancient Babylonian blueprint (famed hanging gardens and all), or will it be a modern city sitting on some of the ancient ruins that just goes by the name "Babylon"?

That is an illogical statement. Does a city need to have a famed piece of architecture for it to be the same city? So, basically, you're also saying that New York cannot be New York because the Twin Towers collapsed on 9/11? That makes no sense.

No, not when the seat of power is already settled in another well populated city. What would be the point of such a move? It would be like having the entire federal government in DC move to York, PA simply because the city held historical significance over 200 years ago.

Ah, but the federal government did move from New York City, NY to Washington DC because of state disputes. The South demanded that the capital be moved to a southern location as a repayment of the South financing northern reparations after the Revolutionary War. Such a move could be applied with Iraq (since the southern, Shia majority control the oil fields).

Also, it should be noted that Iraq is only the 2nd largest producer of oil in the world, preceded by Saudi Arabia, and despite it's great wealth in oil, Arabia is hardly a world power and the majority of it's population comes close to living in 3rd World conditions. Same goes for Quwait, Iran, and the United Arab Emerates. So oil alone will not vault Iraq into the status of 'mover and shaker' in the world.

You can't compare the two. First off, Saudi Arabia IS a rich country, the only thing that makes it appear poor is the massive deserts the country encompasses. Secondly, the oil wealth of the country is in the hands of nobility and the monarchy itself. And since Saudi Arabia has slowed oil productions, most nations will turn their attention to Iraq as a source of cheap oil. This time, instead of having an oil industry dominated by an insane dictator who squanders wealth on his grand palatial structures and statues of himself, it would be in the hands of a government that would distribute the oil wealth among the masses. Since the Iraqi government sees Babylon as a great tourist spot (as Saddam did), I don't see why rennovations could be implimented on it.

But Iraq isn't ancient Bablyon, and Iraq has little or no tangible connection to a civilization that vanished 2500 years ago. If anything, their religion is the true unifier of all Middle Eastern people, and yet even that is causing them to turn on each other. So a Babylonian rallying cry wouldn't do anything to unite the Muslim people. What makes you think the Iraqi people would rally around the idea of a new Babylon?

Because they have in the past.

Babylon is inherent in us and Assyria is ours,

And because of the glory of our background

History itself radiates with light

That was the Iraqi anthem under the Saddam regime. During the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam appealed to this, to expand Iraq's territory as the Babylonians did. In fact, he crowned himself Nebuchadnezzar III.

Sure it would, especially since Iraq is hardly "modern" and doesn't have the funds or the capacity to transplant it's entire governmental infrastructure from Bagdad to entirely new (and smaller) city built from the ground up. Unless Bagdad blows up, there is no reason to change the nation's capital.

The United States did the same exact thing after it officially became a nation. The capital was originally at New York City, and Washington was happy there. It was the southern states that pleaded to move the capital further south, so they built an entirely new city, dedicated in President Washington's honor - Washington DC. Now if the USA did it, why can't Iraq?

Wikipedia has a good article on Babylon's history
There's no mention of any event like the prophecies say it should be. None whatsoever. It was merely abandoned over the course of time.

Here's another article on Hillah,

Interesting, wouldn't you say?

 

[ross3421]

Does Jerusalem trade in all of these commodities listed? No. The USA does though .

The question is not "does" but "will" Jerusalem one day provide all these commodities.

Why would Lucifer claiming to be the most high reign from the USA ? He will reign from whom his claiming to be ; from Jerusalem.

In Christ, Mark.

 

[FearAndTrembeling]

Babylon who is ruled over by Satan, represents the Churches and Congragations which fornicate from the true Gospel in the time of the end(our day).

http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/frame/ The End Of The Church Age.. And After >>

This analysis of this verse is very parallel to a few verses in Jeremiah 25. Remember, earlier in our study we learned that Jeremiah 25 is focused on the judgment at the end of the world. This is seen in verses 26 and 27, which warn:

And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them. Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.​

In this verse, the king of Sheshach is the king of Babylon. Spiritually, the king of Babylon is Satan who rules the nations of the world. In Jeremiah 25, God lists a great many nations of the world which are representative of all the nations of the world which will experience the judgment of the last day. Significantly, the first peoples named are Jerusalem and Judah. We read in verses 17 and 18:

Then took I the cup at the LORD’S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me: To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day; ​

As we have learned throughout this study, the only entity that can identify with Jerusalem and Judah are the churches and congregations.

Then in Jeremiah 25. verses 28 and 29, God makes this declaration:

And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink. For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.​

In these verses we find parallel language to that of I Peter 4:17. On the one hand is the city called by God’s name, where the evil of God’s judgment begins. That is the house of God of I Peter 4:17 where the time of judgment has begun.

In 2Thess 2 the man of sin taking his seat in the temple represents or is a picture of Satan ruling in the church. Satan will come with signs and wonders of falsehood. God will make the followers of Satan believe a lie, so they will be prepared for judgment.

Revelation 13:16 and Revelation 14:9, 10 warn:

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

In Jeremiah 7:12-16, we read: But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first. and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. And now, because ye have done all there works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not; Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

​

What happened at Shiloh? It was the place the ark, which was to be kept in the holy of holies of the tabernacle, was brought after Israel came into the land of Canaan. For over than 300 years, it was there, Remember, the ark represented the presence of God with Israel. But then in the year 1068 B.C., in the days of Samuel, the Philistines threatened Israel, The Israelites wickedly took the ark out of the holy of holies and brought it to the front line of battle. We read of the sad consequence of this action in I Samuel 4:10, 11:

And the philistines fought, and the Israel was smitten, and every man into his tent: and there was a very great slaughter; for there fell of Israel thirty thousand footmen. And the ark of God was taken; and the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were slain.




This terrible event means that Shiloh had been utterly forsaken by God. Never again did the ark come to Shiloh. In Jeremiah 7:15 God declares that Judah (the churches of our day) will be cast out, and Jeremiah 7:14 tells us, "this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust," will be cast out. Then comes the even more ominous declaration in verse 16:

Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.​

How awful! Here, God is commanding Jeremiah not to pray for the nation of Israel, the church of his day. In our day, we are now in the place of Jeremiah, so the application is that God is commanding us not to even pray for the churches. There is no hope of any kind for the local churches. We are not even to pray for them. They are in a most dangerous place.

 

[OhhJim]

Most oil refineries are already back on track in Iraq, and Iraqis are being employed. Your "long, long time" theory is not really applicable. Plus, as Iraq's stabilization is continued, revenue will pour in from the USA and European nations who want a cut of Iraqi oil, which for so long has been denied to them by Saddam's regime. Such a massive influx of revenue could allow the Iraqi government to rebuild Babylon.

Ah, but the federal government did move from New York City, NY to Washington DC because of state disputes. The South demanded that the capital be moved to a southern location as a repayment of the South financing northern reparations after the Revolutionary War. Such a move could be applied with Iraq (since the southern, Shia majority control the oil fields).

First, the US capitol moved from NYC to Philadelphia, then to Washington D.C.
http://www.gwu.edu/~ffcp/exhibit/p12/p12_5.html
It doesn't change anything you said, I just wanted to show off!

As for Iraq's stabilization, they are killing each other over there. I suspect it will be a long time before they stop, if ever. This could change overnight, I suppose, but I don't see the good stuff happening when the Sunni and Shia are blowing each other up with suicide bombs.

 

[Reazzurro90]

First, the US capitol moved from NYC to Philadelphia, then to Washington D.C.
http://www.gwu.edu/~ffcp/exhibit/p12/p12_5.html
It doesn't change anything you said, I just wanted to show off!

As for Iraq's stabilization, they are killing each other over there. I suspect it will be a long time before they stop, if ever. This could change overnight, I suppose, but I don't see the good stuff happening when the Sunni and Shia are blowing each other up with suicide bombs.

Meany, showing off!

Iraq's stabilization is coming along, despite what we are shown through the media. Large parts of Iraq are rebuilt, schools are open, electricity is flowing, oil refineries beginning to be started up again. What I've found particularly interesting, is that Hillah, the city that now occupies the area around Babylon (ruins) is also the capital city of the province of Babil.


I think the Iraqi constitution will be a pivotal point in determing Iraq's future, but I have a feeling it will be approved, or if it's rejected, some other, quick compromise will be worked out. And Iraq will become a powerful nation, simply because it can. It's always attempted to challenge Egypt's role as head of the Arab world.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

The question is not "does" but "will" Jerusalem one day provide all these commodities.

Why would Lucifer claiming to be the most high reign from the USA ? He will reign from whom his claiming to be ; from Jerusalem.

In Christ, Mark.

Rev 18:23 ~ And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the BRIDEGROOM and of the BRIDE shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
When was the voice of the bridegroom and the bride ever in Jerusalem? The bridegroom is Jesus, and the bride is the church. They rejected him recall, and there aren't a whole lot of Christians in Jerusalem...we just go there to visit the holy places. The bulk of the Christians are in the USA....the gospel goes out of here via satellite to all over the world. I doubt if all of these are true actual Christians in the USA though. They may talk the talk, but not walk the walk.
Top 10 Largest National Christian Populations
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_christian.html#nations

 

[ross3421]

When was the voice of the bridegroom and the bride ever in Jerusalem? The bridegroom is Jesus, and the bride is the church. They rejected him recall, and there aren't a whole lot of Christians in Jerusalem...we just go there to visit the holy places. The bulk of the Christians are in the USA....
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_christian.html#nationshttp://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_christian.html#nations

Rev. 18:22, 23 – We see that the LIGHT OF A CANDLE and the VOICE OF THE BRIDEGROOM and SOUNS OF MILLSTONES shall be heard no more out from this city. This event is seen occurring to Jerusalem in Jer. 7:34, 16:9, 25:10, 33:11.

Jer 7:34Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.


Now, what you have got to be saying to yourself is that .....if most of the christians live in the US it appears that the enemy has us gathered for the slaughter.

In Christ, Mark.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Rev. 18:22, 23 – We see that the LIGHT OF A CANDLE and the VOICE OF THE BRIDEGROOM and SOUNS OF MILLSTONES shall be heard no more out from this city. This event is seen occurring to Jerusalem in Jer. 7:34, 16:9, 25:10, 33:11.

Jer 7:34Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.


Now, what you have got to be saying to yourself is that .....if most of the christians live in the US it appears that the enemy has us gathered for the slaughter.

In Christ, Mark.

Like I stated in a previous post....perpetual desolations. It's going to be carried right over to the USA. One thing that a lot of people do not know, God never does anything different, as man is no different. He doesn't have to change the judgment from one Babylon to another, as they are both wicked. The USA is a wicked nation, and we as the church let it happen...no repentance, complacent, dead mens bones sitting in the pews.

 

[OhhJim]

The USA is a wicked nation, and we as the church let it happen...no repentance, complacent, dead mens bones sitting in the pews.

Actually, technically, one can't become a Christian without repentance, so it isn't the Church who is to blame for the wickedness. I will grant you that there are many who call themselves Christians, who attend church regularly, etc. who may be unrepentant, but not Christians. Members of Christ's Church are, by definition, repentant.

 

[OhhJim]

Iraq's stabilization is coming along, despite what we are shown through the media. Large parts of Iraq are rebuilt, schools are open, electricity is flowing, oil refineries beginning to be started up again. What I've found particularly interesting, is that Hillah, the city that now occupies the area around Babylon (ruins) is also the capital city of the province of Babil.

I think the Iraqi constitution will be a pivotal point in determing Iraq's future, but I have a feeling it will be approved, or if it's rejected, some other, quick compromise will be worked out. And Iraq will become a powerful nation, simply because it can. It's always attempted to challenge Egypt's role as head of the Arab world.

I do hope you are right. I guess time will tell.

 

[Harlan Norris]

Well, here in america we definatly are Idol worshipers. Sports idols, singing idols,movie idols, political idols. We sacrifice to these time, money, allegience. Babylonian behavior for shure. So, is the nation about to be destroyed in one hour? It is a definate possibility. Are we the worst nation around? I think it's a mistake to look at it that way. I think that what I'll do is turn my back on all these idols, so that spiritually, I've come out of Babylon. I can't think of any place that I could physically go that would be acceptable to God, and therefore safe.

 

[OhhJim]

Babylonian behavior for shure. So, is the nation about to be destroyed in one hour? It is a definate possibility.

Is there a reason why God would choose to destroy one Babylonian-type nation, rather than another?