Understanding theosis in Orthodox thought?

[“Paisios”]

Once again, I ask your patience with my ongoing questions...

I was hoping that someone here could explain the concept of theosis in Orthodox thought, as it seems to be central to Orthodox belief. I don’t quite understand what a union with God means in your tradition, how that is accomplished, and what is the nature of that union.

(As a secondary question, it was once mentioned by a non-Orthodox, that it sounded an awful lot like the LDS/Mormon concept of man becoming God. Wondering if anyone can explain the differences in the LDS doctrine and the Orthodox understanding?)

Again, thanking you all in advance for your graciousness to a stranger...

 

[All4Christ]

Once again, I ask your patience with my ongoing questions...

I was hoping that someone here could explain the concept of theosis in Orthodox thought, as it seems to be central to Orthodox belief. I don’t quite understand what a union with God means in your tradition, how that is accomplished, and what is the nature of that union.

(As a secondary question, it was once mentioned by a non-Orthodox, that it sounded an awful lot like the LDS/Mormon concept of man becoming God. Wondering if anyone can explain the differences in the LDS doctrine and the Orthodox understanding?)

Again, thanking you all in advance for your graciousness to a stranger...

This is a great question, though I’ll have to wait until after work to answer - as it is a complex topic I am still learning about I too look forward to the answers!

 

[ArmyMatt]

it's simply that we participate in God's nature (in His energies not His essence). over eternity, we become more like God without becoming God.

put another way, the energy draws us closer to the essence without us ever reaching the essence, like a parabolic curve.

or like iron in fire takes on the properties of fire (gives heat and light, turns orange, etc) without becoming fire. remove the iron and it returns to being cold and dark.

 

[“Paisios”]

it's simply that we participate in God's nature (in His energies not His essence). over eternity, we become more like God without becoming God.

put another way, the energy draws us closer to the essence without us ever reaching the essence, like a parabolic curve.

or like iron in fire takes on the properties of fire (gives heat and light, turns orange, etc) without becoming fire. remove the iron and it returns to being cold and dark.

Thank you, Father. That analogy is very helpful.

And a follow up question...could you please elaborate more on what you mean by the “energies” and “essence” of God. I have come across this frequently in my reading, and I want to be clearer on what is the meaning.

Thanking you in advance again for your patience and graciousness.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thank you, Father. That analogy is very helpful.

And a follow up question...could you please elaborate more on what you mean by the “energies” and “essence” of God. I have come across this frequently in my reading, and I want to be clearer on what is the meaning.

Thanking you in advance again for your patience and graciousness.

God's essence is what makes Him God, which is beyond comparison, contrast, or comprehension.

His energies are His action and Himself revealed in creation. otherwise known as His grace.

 

[“Paisios”]

God's essence is what makes Him God, which is beyond comparison, contrast, or comprehension.

His energies are His action and Himself revealed in creation. otherwise known as His grace.

Hmmm, yes that seems like what I have read, but I guess I am still not quite clear. Is this a major difference then, between Orthodoxy and Protestantism? - that Orthodoxy “defines” God in a negative way (by this I mean by what He is not, not that He is bad in any way) as He is beyond comprehension, while Protestants often speak of the positive attributes of God...or am I reading too much into your statement on His essence?

Thank you.

Edited to add: You have said that God’s essence is beyond comparison, contrast or comprehension...is there anything that we can know about His essence?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hmmm, yes that seems like what I have read, but I guess I am still not quite clear. Is this a major difference then, between Orthodoxy and Protestantism? - that Orthodoxy “defines” God in a negative way (by this I mean by what He is not, not that He is bad in any way) as He is beyond comprehension, while Protestants often speak of the positive attributes of God...or am I reading too much into your statement on His essence?

Thank you.

Edited to add: You have said that God’s essence is beyond comparison, contrast or comprehension...is there anything that we can know about His essence?

you can speak of God's attributes since He has revealed Himself. but God within Himself is known only to God. it's theologically easier to speak of what God is not, rather than what He is.

and really, we can know nothing of His essence, since to do so you would have to compare or contrast Him, and God is above and beyond anything we can come up with

 

[“Paisios”]

you can speak of God's attributes since He has revealed Himself. but God within Himself is known only to God. it's theologically easier to speak of what God is not, rather than what He is.

and really, we can know nothing of His essence, since to do so you would have to compare or contrast Him, and God is above and beyond anything we can come up with

Thank you for the clarification, Father.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The bigger difference seems to be how some Protestants regard grace. I've run into a variety of understandings, and often they don't deeply define it (which is ok not to). But there comes often an idea that grace is a kind of "thing" that God bestows on us. Sometimes a thing that we can possess/distribute ourselves in like manner as God. But as I said, it's rarely very defined. The most common answer by far is the grace is "unmerited favor" which I don't think can be used to really mean the very energies of God or the Holy Spirit.


As to differences with Mormonism, iirc they actually believe God is/was a creature like us who was elevated to be God, and that we likewise as creatures can become what God actually is. We IN NO WAY agree with this.

 

[“Paisios”]

The bigger difference seems to be how some Protestants regard grace. I've run into a variety of understandings, and often they don't deeply define it (which is ok not to). But there comes often an idea that grace is a kind of "thing" that God bestows on us. Sometimes a thing that we can possess/distribute ourselves in like manner as God. But as I said, it's rarely very defined. The most common answer by far is the grace is "unmerited favor" which I don't think can be used to really mean the very energies of God or the Holy Spirit.

As to differences with Mormonism, iirc they actually believe God is/was a creature like us who was elevated to be God, and that we likewise as creatures can become what God actually is. We IN NO WAY agree with this.

Thank you for the reply. That seems in agreement with what I have read and understood, but I always like to double check with actual people to ensure my understanding of these readings is correct (or maybe I’m just a slow learner who needs a lot of repetition...)

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you for the reply. That seems in agreement with what I have read and understood, but I always like to double check with actual people to ensure my understanding of these readings is correct (or maybe I’m just a slow learner who needs a lot of repetition...)

I can relate with double-checking. I ran into conflicting info early on (bad sources) so I developed a long habit of double and triple checking.

It gets easier. I know who to trust now, and by the grace of God have pretty reliable alarm bells when something is off.