Understanding Spiritual Fornication

[Gregory Thompson]

Spiritual fornication was a theme in the prophets, a sin groups of people were accused of. I think a good reason why spiritual fornication is not on the menu because eventually many bible interpretations learned at seminary may be indicted as spiritual fornication and abandoned leaving many pastors out of work.
.
Spiritual fornication is also commonly called idolatry. However, since people can't get that god out of their hands lately or their eyes off of it ... I don't think there'd be much money in talking about it in technology dependent regions.

 

[tatteredsoul]

.

 

[Albion]

You know politicians lie.

You know 80% of what they promises are lies.

Many of them support murder, drug running, wars, dangerous experiments, pollution, regulation lax tax, and so on.

Following them, believing in them and even getting involved is none of a Christian''s business.

Why do you persistently try to argue that for Christians to do so much as vote in elections means that they necessarily become everything that the most disreputable politicians are? That doesn't even make sense, let along a reasonable argument.

 

[tatteredsoul]

.

 

[tatteredsoul]

.

 

[Albion]

If you choose to vote when you are not forced to vote, you are responsible for your decision - and the consequences of your actions.

Then taking responsibility for anything would be a mistake, not to mention forfeiting an opportunity to correct what's wrong. If all the Christians, for example, voted to throw the scoundrels out and replace them with upstanding Christian leaders, we wouldn't have all the problems you decry. But too many of them refuse to vote and then complain about what they get as a result of taking that approach.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Given the example in the NT those who committed fornication were the publicans that collected taxes for Rome. The people were to give to Ceasar what was Ceasar's, but those Jews collected over and above for there own gain. The people feared the Romans, paid taxes, thereby giving them their due, Romans 13:7 But the publicans that gave honor to God, as is His due, were highly commended. The case of Zacharia the publican shows him repaying all his illicit gain out of a contrite heart. Or the publican that beat his breast saying forgive me a sinner having been forgiven over the Pharisee that thought he did no wrong. The publican was forgiven, it doesn't say whether he went back to his old ways, but his attitude toward God was preferred over self-righteousness

Romans 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.​

The church's fornication is falling back to the old nature/old ways that are not of Christ as given in the example of in

Romans 7:1-3
Released From the Law, Bound to Christ

1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?
2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him.
3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.​

 

[pescador]

Given the example in the NT those who committed fornication were the publicans that collected taxes for Rome. The people were to give to Ceasar what was Ceasar's, but those Jews collected over and above for there own gain. The people feared the Romans, paid taxes, thereby giving them their due, Romans 13:7 But the publicans that gave honor to God, as is His due, were highly commended. The case of Zacharia the publican shows him repaying all his illicit gain out of a contrite heart. Or the publican that beat his breast saying forgive me a sinner having been forgiven over the Pharisee that thought he did no wrong. The publican was forgiven, it doesn't say whether he went back to his old ways, but his attitude toward God was preferred over self-righteousness

Romans 13
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.​

The church's fornication is falling back to the old nature/old ways that are not of Christ as given in the example of in

Romans 7:1-3
Released From the Law, Bound to Christ

1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?
2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him.
3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.​

So the body of Christ, meaning all of us who are (true) Christians, are fornicators? Really??

We are the body of Christ; he is the head. We are one with him. Paul was writing in Romans 7 that we have died to the Mosaic law. If you continued on in Romans 7, you would see that the next verses say "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

I would be careful about judging your brothers and sisters in Christ, God's beloved children.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

My view is different than your. I read the verses as saying self-rightoeusness, double-mindedness and turning to idols away from God is what terms spiritual fornication

I might even add those who take the role of the accuser

 

[W2L]

Spiritual fornication is having dealings with the world for profit as a harlot does. Rev 17:2

For profit, this could be seen as seeking financial help from man (politicians) as apposed to God. In my opinion, we might see this in politics all the time. We compromise our faith by dividing ourselves with politics. Division is not a sign of a healthy body and to allow politicians to divide us is not a sign of good spiritual health, in my opinion. I cannot understand why people think that division over political matters is from Gods spirit. Surely such division must be from the spirit of the world, not from God. Anything not of God is not spiritually healthy.

 

[W2L]

Jeremiah 3 sounds like it's talking about idolatry, not politics. Where does scripture say following politicians or being active in a political party is spiritual fornication or even a sin?

Its the division, covetousness and other unspiritual things found in politics that shows why politics are wrong. Anything not of Gods spirit is spiritual fornication, in my opinion.

 

[W2L]

My thoughts? Total and utter nonsense. Poppycock. Balderdash. Twaddle. You may want to hear poppycock in church; I certainly prefer not to. 'Spiritual fornication' is a contradiction in terms; ain't nothing spiritual about lust. Not a thing.

Words mean what they mean; fornication is having illicit sexual relations. Whatever other sins may be, unless they include actual illicit sexual relations then they are not fornication.

The term "spiritual" here refers to the "symbolic" fornication, or the "proverbial" fornication. Of course this is not holy but it is spiritual, but its just not by Gods spirit. There is a spirit of the world which is contrary to Gods spirit.

 

[W2L]

So, the topic is really misogyny? Women are either virgins or harlots, and so are Christians?

Good to know.

We are all sinners here, and no one is judging others, or judging women. This is about faithfulness to Christ, not about judging each others past sins.

 

[W2L]

Revelation 14:8
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 17:2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Revelation 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Revelation 18:3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

I find this scripture interesting. The language is very similar in the "calling out" part. Also, on a side note I believe one of the English words used for church refers to "those who have been called out", if I'm not mistaken.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore,

“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”

Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“‘Come out of her, my people,’
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;


Also here, this revelation language is a little similar as well, although not as much as the scripture above.

Revelation 18:Give her as much torment and grief
as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
In her heart she boasts,
‘I sit enthroned as queen.
I am not a widow;[c]
I will never mourn.’

Revelation 3:17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

 

[W2L]

What both of you are forgetting is the straightforward Bible admonition for us as disciples to be IN THE WORLD but not OF the world.

IN THE WORLD

It does not tell us to hide under our beds so that we won't be affected by anything "out there" where all the people who need to hear the Gospel are.

In addition to the call for us to change the world, you also seem oblivious (because it's pointed out to you several times) to the fact that doing something that involves other people does not automatically mean being seduced and corrupted by the world.

Yes but when we have division, contention, and even covetousness in the body, via politics, then corruption seems to abounding within.

 

[W2L]

You know politicians lie.

You know 80% of what they promises are lies.

Many of them support murder, drug running, wars, dangerous experiments, pollution, regulation lax tax, and so on.

Following them, believing in them and even getting involved is none of a Christian''s business. That would be shaping the world as it is, and that isn't our worry. It leads to corruption. Christ said give Caesar what is owed to him, but He didn't say vote for him, campaign for him, etc.

Keep in mind God did not even endorse Israel as a nation with a man-king and government. He was their God (even more than a king,) and they would be His people.

Yes , there is a difference between giving Caesar what is his, and campaigning for him.

 

[W2L]

Because if 94,534,783 people are responsible for putting in the next president that, say, brings back a form of legal slavery, then it would make the percentage of Christians in the 94, 534,783 people that voted responsible for that president and his or her actions.

If you choose to vote when you are not forced to vote, you are responsible for your decision - and the consequences of your actions. Your country is not one of this world if you are a Christian. It isn't supposed to be. Christ never had "Roman Pride." He simply followed the law of the land as long as it didn't conflict with His Father. I am not necessarily discouraging voting, I am encouraging a thorough look at what the entire process means for a Christian.

But, this is assuming your vote actually matters, and the collective vote isn't some data mining set up overruled by the nanny vote of the electoral college.

Politics only divide us over every issue under the sun. Issues such as abortion, gay marriage and other things, they are just tools that politicians use to gain our support, in the end however they use us to pass economic policies, and to fight wars, which is not our business. If we were truly united, only then could any ones vote actually matter.

 

[W2L]

If all the Christians, for example, voted to throw the scoundrels out and replace them with upstanding Christian leaders, we wouldn't have all the problems you decry.

That's not going to happen. Its not truth. Instead we will be given false teachers to follow. Politicians will always lead us astray and divide us. That's the truth. You believe politics are noble, but you are fighting a lost cause. THe world will never accept our values, never. I urge you to wake up brother.

 

[W2L]

So the body of Christ, meaning all of us who are (true) Christians, are fornicators? Really??

We are the body of Christ; he is the head. We are one with him. Paul was writing in Romans 7 that we have died to the Mosaic law. If you continued on in Romans 7, you would see that the next verses say "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

I would be careful about judging your brothers and sisters in Christ, God's beloved children.

Are you denying that Christians can be unfaithful to Christ? That is what spiritual fornication is.

 

[W2L]

LOOK-

The politicians play on our conscience, they tell us we must vote in order to fight against evil, but the truth is that they will only lead us into more evil.

Its better to be united, and to be an example of what truth is. Politicians only cause us to become dirty. They lead us around with deception and cause divisions among us, and cause us to slander each other and our leaders too. Cant you see how politics are a bad example for us to follow? It doesn't teah us good things but rather bad things. Its also futile as well. THey are playing on our fears and our conscience, but they are using deception not truth.