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yeshuaslavejeff

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Bottom line is this, you cannot follow politicians without getting dirty.
Politicians have a dirty heart, full of stuff and desires and motives we probably never want to know.
The good samaritan had a clean and righteous heart,
and he did what a clean and righteous person right with Yhwh would do.
He would never do what a dirty politician did, nor trust one ever.
 
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Victor E.

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I figure that the Good Samaritan also got dirty when he helped that guy on the road. "Getting dirty" is often what it takes to live the Gospel.

As I recall, Jesus was not the most popular guy of biblical times. The "least of these" was hated by many, and now He is loved by many as He is seated at the right-hand of the Father as the GREATEST of these. GREATEST in the Kingdom of Heaven even...:)
 
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W2L

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I figure that the Good Samaritan also got dirty when he helped that guy on the road. "Getting dirty" is often what it takes to live the Gospel.

I'm talking about staining our white robes. The Samaritan actually kept his clean in that example.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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As I recall, Jesus was not the most popular guy of biblical times. The "least of these" was hated by many, and now He is loved by many as He is seated at the right-hand of the Father.
Perhaps yes, but Jesus is still hated by the whole world,
and
as it is written in Scripture, even after one third of mankind dies soon,
the rest of mankind
continues on in unbridled sin, refusing to repent of worshiping demons.

I.E. Yhwh has kept for Himself a remnant that has not bowed their knee to baal/ this world/ greed/ or the devil.
A few trust and rely on Yhwh by faith in Yeshua(Jesus), but most still reject Him.
 
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W2L

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Politicians have a dirty heart, full of stuff and desires and motives we probably never want to know.
The good samaritan had a clean and righteous heart,
and he did what a clean and righteous person right with Yhwh would do.
He would never do what a dirty politician did, nor trust one ever.

I think he would see through the deception, and see how politics doesn't bear fruit but instead hate, discord, slander, covetousness and lies. Politics, to me, is like a trap. It promises everything but delivers only bad things. These problems they have us fighting over never go away, never. It would be one thing if the body was united in their vote, and only voted for truly noble things but in the end we are voting for the American dream. We are worried about our jobs and our retirement and other such things. It just seems to be contrary to the kingdom message I think. Not to mention, we can never trust politicians. They know what to say in order to get our vote. THey have us voting against abortion but in the end they actually draw us away from the Lord, and we end up voting for war, and for death penalties, and for economic issues. We end up divided instead of united as well. If thats not an indication that its bad for us then we must be blind. Its a great deception i believe. My conscience is more clear after I got away from politics than when I was involved in them.
 
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Albion

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I'm talking about staining our white robes. The Samaritan actually kept his clean in that example.
No, you mean that he remained spiritually clean while getting dirty in the usual sense of the word. He could, of course, have said what you advised, and said "OOOOh, I could help, I suppose...but I don't go in for things like robberies and assaults. Other people do that stuff, and I'm not like them, so I'm just going to go on my way and keep my appointments on time and my water bottle filled. Someone else will probably help this guy."
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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No, you mean that he remained spiritually clean while getting dirty in the usual sense of the word. He could, of course, have said what you advised, and said "OOOOh, I could help, I suppose...but I don't go in for things like robberies and assaults. Other people do that stuff, and I'm not like them, so I'm just going to go on my way and keep my appointments on time and my water bottle filled. Someone else will probably help this guy."
You're totally wrong here (as W2L may point out if he wants to).
W2L advocates doing what is right -
like the good samaritan did;

and don't befoul yourself with dirty politics, doing most often what is wrong, like most americans do.
 
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W2L

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The scriptures say that we must be separate from the world. I believe this is because we will be blinded by its deception, and drawn away from Christ. We will nor bear fruit.

The kingdom is about peace, righteousness and joy in the spirit. If a person gets joy from the contention of politics then I think they are not being spirit lead. How is our conscience clear when we are so divided, and so contentious as well? Shouldn't it bother us?

When I see the scriptures, I see a Church that is supposed to be separate from the world. Its supposed to shine and help people. We are supposed to united in one voice and without any contention. This way people see us and want to be part of it. Its inviting to the lost and weary souls who are seeking something they are missing. Politics however doesn't shine. Its just ugly.
 
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W2L

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No, you mean that he remained spiritually clean while getting dirty in the usual sense of the word. He could, of course, have said what you advised, and said "OOOOh, I could help, I suppose...but I don't go in for things like robberies and assaults. Other people do that stuff, and I'm not like them, so I'm just going to go on my way and keep my appointments on time and my water bottle filled. Someone else will probably help this guy."

We are not being a good Samaritan in politics. We are instead being a loud and clamorous, hopelessly divided, body.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It would be one thing if the body was united in their vote, and only voted for truly noble things but in the end we are voting for the American dream. We are worried about our jobs and our retirement and other such things. It just seems to be contrary to the kingdom message I think. Not to mention, we can never trust politicians.
"We" (ekklesia full of Peace, Joy, Righteousness and Yhwh's Presence) are not worried about our jobs, our retirement and other such things.
That would be contrary to the kingdom message/ to Jesus and how He guides and leads and protects and nurtures and trains us. We are not motivated by "the american dream", but by the joy and strength and truth and life in Yeshua and the good news for others who turn to Him and call on Him to be saved, and by the reward Yhwh has for us (as Yeshua looked forward to, so do we)...

People who trust politicians - they are worried about such things, and they might as well be : they are going to lose everything they hoped to gain.

The body of Christ is living in union with Yeshua - not united to vote, no; no more than the assemblies in the NT ever were - but constant, daily union with Yeshua and with one another as Yeshua prayed in JOHN 17. (True for the ekklesia, immersed in Yeshua; a few; but not seen, not taught, not recognized nor lived by the worldly or carnal)

When I see the scriptures, I see a Church that is supposed to be separate from the world. Its supposed to shine and help people. We are supposed to united in one voice and without any contention.
In Scripture you see assemblies that are set apart, separated from the worldly ways and system. It does SHINE with the TRUE LIGHT, in Scripture and TODAY wherever Yhwh's people are living in TRUTH and abiding in Yeshua.
Yhwh's People Are full continually of Peace and Joy and Righteousness,
willingly and joyously obeying Yhwh every day,
living self-sacrificially as Yeshua teaches us, even unto death.
 
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W2L

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Who are we helping in politics? Tell me.

Are we helping the poor? How? Will we force the taxpayers to give money? Will we do that in Church too? If not, are we not guilty of hypocrisy?

Will we stop the government from collecting taxes by cutting social programs? Does that help the poor?

THe problem here is that politics and the gospel don't mix. Don't you see this? We must put faith in God and pray? Do we not have faith in God? WE should pray for Gods help, not divide ourselves over politics, and not follow these politicians example in slandering each other and them as well.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Who are we helping in politics?
"unauthorized" answer: people who vote always do so for money,
or something related to money.
even though their votes never actually count,
they have been totally duped into thinking they do, and that they can "assure" or "protect" or "get more of" "THEIR MONEY" if they vote.
 
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W2L

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"unauthorized" answer: people who vote always do so for money,
or something related to money.
even though their votes never actually count,
they have been totally duped into thinking they do, and that they can "assure" or "protect" or "get more of" "THEIR MONEY" if they vote.

The prosperity gospel is very popular as well. This also goes to show how we will follow a preacher or Church over sound doctrine. Even those who don't follow prosperity preachers still believe that its ok to be wealthy. They dnt know that wealth is deceptive and will deceive us. That's what the parable of the sower teaches us, that money is deceitful and will cause us to become unfruitful. The enemy is deceitful, just as he was in the Garden of Eden. The Lord says not to store wealth on earth because it will perish, but somehow we think that doesn't apply to us. Its easy for me to say cause I'm poor, but maybe that's why it was also easy for Paul to say as well, because he was poor.
 
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samir

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Jeremiah 3

"They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the Lord.

Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.

Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a harlot's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth?

Will he reserve his anger for ever? will he keep it to the end? Behold, thou hast spoken and done evil things as thou couldest.

The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.

And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.

And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the Lord.

And the Lord said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.

Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever.

Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lordthy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord.

Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of theLord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.

At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.

Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord.

A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten theLord their God.

Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the Lord our God.

Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the Lord our God is the salvation of Israel.

For shame hath devoured the labour of our fathers from our youth; their flocks and their herds, their sons and their daughters.

We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the Lord our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God."

Emphasis mine.


God divorced us because we were spiritual harlots. I don't know if people know what that means, but Jeremiah spells it out somewhat. This "whoredom," or lack there of is also brought up when describing the 144,000 as men who did not defile themselves with women. This isn't talking about physical Virgin men (although, it could be a coupled component.) This is an allusion to Jeremiah and other books speaking about spiritual whoredom. In other words, these 144,000 did not defile themselves after other gods, religions or systems.

A woman represents a church in the bible. A Virgin is a Godly church or system; a harlot is a blasphemous, sinfully debauched church or system. These men never strayed beyond Godly things.

The issue of spiritual divorce is a very important concept, and one the church may be missing which could help understand this entire thing called creation.

Jeremiah 3 sounds like it's talking about idolatry, not politics. Where does scripture say following politicians or being active in a political party is spiritual fornication or even a sin?
 
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Catherineanne

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I want to talk about this topic, because I feel like it is important. It is a topic specifically mentioned in the OT and NT; God Himself divorced us for spiritual fornication, and this is a HUGE deal that can give insight on this thread, and the nature of the Church's own marriage with God, His covenants, and how "yokeness" is important even to God.

What are thoughts on this topic, and why or why isn't it taught more often in the Church?

My thoughts? Total and utter nonsense. Poppycock. Balderdash. Twaddle. You may want to hear poppycock in church; I certainly prefer not to. 'Spiritual fornication' is a contradiction in terms; ain't nothing spiritual about lust. Not a thing.

Words mean what they mean; fornication is having illicit sexual relations. Whatever other sins may be, unless they include actual illicit sexual relations then they are not fornication.
 
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Catherineanne

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A woman represents a church in the bible. A Virgin is a Godly church or system; a harlot is a blasphemous, sinfully debauched church or system.

So, the topic is really misogyny? Women are either virgins or harlots, and so are Christians?

Good to know.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Revelation 14:8
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 17:2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Revelation 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Revelation 18:3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
 
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Albion

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You're totally wrong here (as W2L may point out if he wants to).
W2L advocates doing what is right -
like the good samaritan did;

and don't befoul yourself with dirty politics, doing most often what is wrong, like most americans do.
What both of you are forgetting is the straightforward Bible admonition for us as disciples to be IN THE WORLD but not OF the world.

IN THE WORLD

It does not tell us to hide under our beds so that we won't be affected by anything "out there" where all the people who need to hear the Gospel are.

In addition to the call for us to change the world, you also seem oblivious (because it's pointed out to you several times) to the fact that doing something that involves other people does not automatically mean being seduced and corrupted by the world.
 
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