Understanding Spiritual Fornication

[Kenny'sID]

See? You are directly contradicting scripture. That's what the worldly Church and their politicians do to us. They lead us astray. I once went that way too, but the scriptures opened my eyes. THe whole doctrine of Christ teaches us to allow ourselves to be defrauded, and to put matters in Gods hands. We are suppose to forgive those who do us wrong and do good for those who use us. What you have just said contradicts many scriptures from both Christ and Paul. It contradicts the kingdom of Christ itself.

Show me what I contradict with scripture.

 

[W2L]

That's because some people don't mind being seen as someone that would stone them themselves.

See what you just did there...you likened stoning Jesus to putting hardened criminals to death.

Take a good look at that and see how you are generally a bit fanatical about this whole thing as you take things way too far.

No I didn't. I showed how hysteria and spiritual blindness will cause us to call for judgment rather than mercy. That's what I see when I look at the Jews who called for Christ's death, and its what I see when people call for the death of criminals as well, they never consider that they are also guilty of that same crime. The scriptures say we are all guilty and if we have broken one law we have broken them all. WE are therefore suppose to speak and act like we are judged by the law of liberty. Judgment without mercy goes to those who judge without mercy. Christ said judge not and you will not be judged, for the judgment you use will be given back to you multiplied. WE are about mercy not judgment. What you are saying demonstrates worldly thinking not Godly thinking.

 

[Kenny'sID]

1 Corinthians 6:7 ►
The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?

Among "you", as in "Christians", what about the world? That does not address problems with the world.

And with Christians, I never said it was right, but a lessor evil than taking into our own hands, and your scripture indicate otherwise.

 

[Albion]

Consider this, fellows--

If Christians were not involved in politics to offset the Atheists and Secularists, you'd all be worshipping in the modern equivalent of catacombs and there would be no religious publications, TV telecasts, Bible distributions, or the like to spread the Gospel. How would that be a gain for believers??

 

[W2L]

Show me what I contradict with scripture.

1 Co 6:7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?


Mathew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[W2L]

Well, "politicians" don't impose the death penalty. The death penalty is merely made available (in exceptionally rare cases) by politicians who enact laws that permit it.

What do you think voters were doing when that law was being considered? What do they do now when it being considered? You are in denial about this, and trying to whitewash it. Look also at how many Christians vote for war. We don't need to do that, the world is in Gods hands not ours.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Among "you", as in "Christians", what about the world? That does not address problems with the world.

And with Christians, I never said it was right, but a lessor evil than taking into our own hands, and your scripture indicate otherwise.

Simplest put, Yhwh's Way is far from the way advocated here (on this forum politically, religiously, etc) ...
Seek the Truth from Yhwh Himself,
and perhaps if helpful to do so from some of the few good teachers in the last few centuries regarding this.
Man's way seems right to man, but the end thereof is the way for death.

Test everything you find before trusting an author/teacher -- most of those I read decades ago , or started to read, were false. Most are false today as well.
Ask Yhwh the Creator to guide
you to the Truth, mostly or entirely in Scripture first,
and He will.
He knows if anything else is necessary to help in your growth and experience.

 

[W2L]

Among "you", as in "Christians", what about the world? That does not address problems with the world.

And with Christians, I never said it was right, but a lessor evil than taking into our own hands, and your scripture indicate otherwise.

We are not suppose to judge the world, that's Gods job. YOu are saying we can allow ourselves to be defrauded by each other but not the world too? YOu are completely ignoring the doctrine we have been given only to follow a politician, aka false teacher

 

[W2L]

Consider this, fellows--

If Christians were not involved in politics to offset the Atheists and Secularists, you'd all be worshipping in the modern equivalent of catacombs and there would be no religious publications, TV telecasts, Bible distributions, or the like to spread the Gospel. How would that be a gain for believers??

No I wouldn't. God is in control. Look at the Babylonians. God used them to punish Israel, but not because he approved of Babylon. He punished them to. God can use ungodly men to give freedom as well, if he chooses. However I wouldn't want to justify such men. Its not my business to judge the world.

 

[Albion]

What do you think voters were doing when that law was being considered? What do they do now when it being considered?

I have no idea what you're getting at. If Christians were to totally boycott all political involvement, the historical record suggests that the death penalty would be more frequently used, not less, since it is mainly the Christian conscience that wants to restrain its use, just as it was Christians who got the move going to abolish slavery.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No. Because the death penalty IS used LESS frequently (and takes so long, and costs so much (another GREAT injustice)) , and likewise justice/judgement is delayed so often for almost everyone,
peoples love has grown cold, just as it is written it would.

 

[W2L]

I have no idea what you're getting at. If Christians were to totally boycott all political involvement, the historical record suggests that the death penalty would be more frequently used, not less, since it is mainly the Christian conscience that wants to restrain its use, just as it was Christians who got the move going to abolish slavery.

You are trying to serve two masters. You make it sound noble but in the end you only fight to keep Christians divided over political deception, and also slandering each other and their leaders. You don't even see anything wrong with these things, so why would you see anything wrong with politics? Slavery yes, now you will say we should take up arms and kill our enemies. You are following false doctrine and don't even know it. Its easy to believe and to follow the way you suggest. Its not easy to bear a cross. I'm sure popular opinion is on your side, but in the last days popular opinion will also be against sound doctrine, as it heaps to itself teachers to tickle its ears.

 

[Albion]

You are trying to serve two masters. You make it sound noble but in the end you only fight to keep Christians divided over political deception, and also slandering each other and their leaders.

I'm sorry you chose not to respond to what I actually was trying to get across.

 

[W2L]

I'm sorry you chose not to respond to what I actually was trying to get across.

I'm sorry you don't see the folly in politics. I don't buy the Christian conscience thing. Many Christians want the death penalty.

Slavery is one thing, but most politics are not so just. It did take The USA's rebellion against Britain, the government we were supposed to submit to, which caused many deaths in war, and then it took the theft of the Natives land, before we ever got so noble. You can say we did one good thing, but you cannot possibly justify everything else. You also cannot justify division, slander, hate, discord, and deception of politics. They have us following a carrot hanging on a string. The Church gets more ungodly and they get more powerful. When we follow politicians we end up becoming their slaves.

 

[Victor E.]

I want to talk about this topic, because I feel like it is important. It is a topic specifically mentioned in the OT and NT; God Himself divorced us for spiritual fornication, and this is a HUGE deal that can give insight on this thread, and the nature of the Church's own marriage with God, His covenants, and how "yokeness" is important even to God.

What are thoughts on this topic, and why or why isn't it taught more often in the Church?

The pride of worldly wisdom would be a start to the tip of the iceberg. So much of the world's wisdom has been added and taken away from Gods living Word of absolute Truth. They are oil and water. They DO NOT MIX. The world loves order, submission, authority, rules, regulations, debate, controversy, division, knowledge, and all other worldly stuff. They cling to it in a half-hearted attempt of Faith. That is why the world rejects the message of the Cross. That is why it is written:

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it" Matthew 7:13

Semantics, Knowledge, Theology and Worldly Wisdom would say that this scripture only means salvation and no salvation but the spiritual reality and spiritual truth is, it means the difference between spiritual maturity and worldly maturity.

I have no degrees. I was never "taught" or "instructed" by anyone but Holy Spirit. I know nothing. That is why I know many things through the mind of Christ.

That is why it is written:

"18If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.

20Remember the word that I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well. 21But they will treat you like this on account of My name, because they do not know the One who sent Me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

23Whoever hates Me hates My Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated Me without reason.’

26When the Advocate comes, whom I will send you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—He will testify about Me. 27And you also must testify, because you have been with Me from the beginning."

Again "Semantics, Knowledge, Theology and Worldly Wisdom would say that this scripture only means salvation and no salvation but the spiritual reality and spiritual truth is, it means the difference between spiritual maturity and worldly maturity."

Again I say "I have no degrees. I was never "taught" or "instructed" by anyone but Holy Spirit. I know nothing. That is why I know many things through the mind of Christ." So I can see through the "teachers of the law".

Galatians 5:1 Matthew 11:28-30 can be explained by the previous two responses of the superficiality of "knowledge". Most everything in Gods Word is the same way. I would not say this if I had not been taught it by SOMEONE very SPECIAL. HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN READY TO TEACH EVERYONE WHO IS LIKE LITTLE CHILDREN IN THIER UNDERSTANDING. Somehow and somewhere PRIDE has crept in very sneakily and made his home throughout THE WORLD.

HOLY SPIRIT reveals new things everyday. Everyday is a joy and an adventure!

 

[Albion]

I'm sorry you don't see the folly in politics. .

As I said, you wouldn't be allowed to even talk about Jesus if the Secularists were given a free hand to make all the laws. You're right that I don't see any merit in that kind of situation.

Slavery is one thing, but most politics are not so just....You can say we did one good thing, but you cannot possibly justify everything else.

IMO, you've just lost your argument with that statement. It's ridiculous to say that we should like the good laws, but not the bad laws, and the way to approach the matter, therefore, is to have nothing to do with lawmaking.

 

[W2L]

No. Because the death penalty IS used LESS frequently (and takes so long, and costs so much (another GREAT injustice)) , and likewise justice/judgement is delayed so often for almost everyone,
peoples love has grown cold, just as it is written it would.

What do you mean? Do you support the death penalty?

 

[W2L]

As I said, you wouldn't be allowed to even talk about Jesus if the Secularists were given a free hand to make all the laws. You're right that I don't see any merit in that kind of situation.

You mean we wouldn't be allowed to talk if we didn't steal this land from the Natives?

 

[W2L]

Bottom line is this, you cannot follow politicians without getting dirty.

 

[Albion]

Bottom line is this, you cannot follow politicians without getting dirty.

I figure that the Good Samaritan also got dirty when he helped that guy on the road. "Getting dirty" is often what it takes to live the Gospel.