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U.S. police killed 1,129 people in 2017, but that’s not the full body count

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by SummerMadness, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    U.S. police killed 1,129 people in 2017, but that’s not the full body count
    Another piece of this analysis missing are those that are not killed, which is an important factor when considering instituting reforms. I am often struck by how different security and police forces act around the world, and in some cases, those countries are more dangerous. The United States needs to take a long hard look at how to reform and improve policing in America.
     
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  2. HereIStand

    HereIStand Regular Member Supporter

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    That doesn't seem like a huge number considering the number of dangerous situations to which they respond.
     
  3. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired) Supporter

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    If the citizenry and the government continues to have a casual attitude towards crime, crime will continue to flourish, imbruting the law enforcement community even more. So don't look for those numbers to go down anytime soon.
     
  4. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Programmer Extraordinaire Supporter

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    The inconvenient data point that nobody wishes to touch on when discussing this is the fact that nobody in the "Cops respond to dangerous situations, that's why the number is so high" camp seems to offer an explanation as to why our numbers are much higher (per capita) than every other first world, westernized country.

    I've seen a few take the stance of "our police have to face more dangerous encounters, and more crime" used as a rationalization, but that still takes us back to "what are they doing differently than us that's producing a lower number of dangerous encounters and lower crime rates in the first place?"
     
  5. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired) Supporter

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    That's an easy one. Just review each case and the picture will emerge.
     
  6. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Programmer Extraordinaire Supporter

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    ...but again, that leads us right into the next question I mentioned, why are there more of these cases and more of the circumstances that lead to these cases?

    At the end of the day, no matter how far you follow it up the chain, there's still something they're doing differently than us that's leading to a more positive outcome.
     
  7. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    It seems the discussion revolves around the neccesity of police to use certain tactics or levels of force, but as we see in New York, it's quite obvious changing problematic practices does not result in more crime.

    Crime in New York City Plunges to a Level Not Seen Since the 1950s
     
  8. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired) Supporter

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    Gather all the metrics into a graph and see what you've got.
     
  9. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Programmer Extraordinaire Supporter

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    That seems like an intentionally vague and dodgy answer? You care to be more specific?


    Here are some things we do know. Police in European countries have much better training in terms of non-lethal situation management, and they have higher standards and better psychological screening for officers.

    Another aspect is that we know the effects of poverty and elevated crime rates go hand-in-hand, and those countries do a much better job in staving off the harsher effects of poverty.
     
  10. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired) Supporter

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    Those are some of the metrics that would go on my graph. Temperature and weather would also be included. Heat and Crime: It’s Not Just You Feeling It
     
  11. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We would really need to take a look at each case and determine if the killing occurred because of excessive force or was a case of return fired or the suspect pulling a gun.

    In other countries there are much stricter gun laws and most criminals aren't running around with guns. This makes it much easier for police to use less force and still do their jobs.
    Here is a recent incident.

    As a Castle Rock police officer, Parrish once pulled money from his wallet to buy a hotel room for a man with nowhere to sleep, said his former boss, Castle Rock Police Chief Jack Cauley. Parrish once held a child in his arms so the child wouldn’t see the handcuffs officers were placing on a parent. He had a gift, Cauley and others said, to use humor to deescalate tense encounters, including the time a driver in a vehicle he approached called out that he had a concealed carry permit and a weapon. “You don’t move yours and I don’t move mine. We got a deal?” Cauley recalled Parrish saying.
    The morning he died, Parrish was in front of other deputies calmly talking through a door to a man who had barricaded himself in his apartment bathroom. Douglas County Sheriff Tony Spurlock, who listened to body camera audio after the ambush, told mourners he had never heard a calmer voice in such a situation.


    “Not once did I hear Zack Parrish use a foul word. Not once did I hear him raise his voice. Not one time,” the sheriff said. “Up until the moment Deputy Zack Parrish died, he was pleading with the man, begging him, ‘Let me talk to you. Let me help you. Please.’ And then the killer killed him.”

    Douglas County Sheriff's Deputy Zack Parrish funeral draws thousands

    Zack Parish was 29 yrs. old and married with 2 small children. Another officer was critically injured, a bullet collapsed his lung, as he tried to pull Officer Parish's injured body to safety. Four officers were injured in that incident.
     
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  12. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    I think regardless of individual cases (remember this is an approximation of all police shootings, some of them definitely involved an appropriate response to an armed assailant), one of the main problems is the lack of statistics collected on these encounters. There is no shortage of people that will whine and complain about having to record this information and how it makes their job harder because quite frankly, they have no problem with police killing unarmed civilians. As far as they are concerned, a police officer is almost always justified in using their weapon (almost because they'll begrudgingly accept wrongdoing when there is video evidence, although that is not always the case). As someone already stated, if police spent more time training on deescalation than on using force, outcomes would be different. However, like some other topics involving power and race, there is a population that denies the existence of any problem... and part of maintaining that denial is fighting the collection of statistics.
     
  13. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    If police only potentially screwed up 12 in 1100+ cases...I'd say it looks like they're doing an exceptional job.
     
  14. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Out of that 1,129 people, how many were resisting, or in the process of committing a crime?

    That is part of the statistic also.
    How many were White, Hispanic?

    You can't just say 1,129 people were killed by the Police, it sounds as though your saying, there were 1,129 Blacks killed by Police.
     
  15. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Pick any Country you want in that "first world, westernized country." category and then place a US. State with commensurate size and Population, then check the Stats again.

    I think the only thing you would find different, is the use of Guns by the Perpetrators in the US. a more violent Society.
     
  16. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    I don't know... it really looks like I wrote 1,129 people. I think my eyes exist in the same world/dimension/timeline as yours. The title clearly says "U.S. police killed 1,129 people in 2017, but that’s not the full body count and it pretty clearly shows." It doesn't sound like it says anything else.
     
  17. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Poverty does not a Criminal make.

    Mobsters in the 1930s were they criminals because they were poor, or was there money to be made in Vice?

    Depression in the 1930s more poor in the history of our Country, was there also a crime wave during that time commensurate with that of poverty?

    Are the Drug dealers of Miami poor, did they turn to crime because they were poor, or was it money again?
     
  18. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    How many people SHOULD the police have killed?
     
  19. Ancient of Days

    Ancient of Days Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Maybe the police should just start using harsh language when somebody pulls a firearm on them or threatens them with a knife or weapon. I grew up deep in the heart of Chicago also drove a tow truck on the west side on the third shift. I have seen it all. OP, where did you grow up? Do you know what life on the streets of large inner city is like?
     
  20. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    I believe, if a person is not doing something illegal or is a criminal they have nothing to fear from the Police in general, I will admit there are some who should never have been allowed to put on the uniform, but with the overall population of Police Officers in the US. that number is relatively small.

    As a side question, how many non police related Murders have been committed in Chicago last year?
     
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