U.S. police killed 1,129 people in 2017, but that’s not the full body count

StromRider

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Wrong! An armed society is a polite society.

Really? So the US is more polite than Canada?! Being a Canadian who has lived in the US for the last 19 years that thought makes me laugh a lot.

Actually we have ten times the amount of firearms as compared to people.

Might want to look at that statement again. A quick google shows it's more of a 1:1 ratio, slightly higher or lower depending on when the survey was taken.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Simple anger is the cause of most crime.

Anger: Thwarted self will.

The failed expectations of living their personal version of the "American Dream" lies at the root of this anger.
 
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Par5

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That suggests that every American has a gun, which is untrue.
That would indeed be untrue if that is how you read it, but what it means is that America has as many guns as it has people, not that every American has a gun.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Other high-income countries, where most people do not own guns, do not suffer the same death rate from firearms as in the US. Do you think that is purely coincidental?

How do you account for falling homicide rates even as gun ownership increases in America (better ER care notwithstanding).

Forbes Welcome
 
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Ana the Ist

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I've actually researched this topic rather extensively over the past year.

By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years

Police firearm use by country - Wikipedia

(there are numerous links that will show this same information, but for the sake of brevity, I just posted these two...)

It shows the complete list of countries and which ones have their police routinely carry firearms. When looking at those, and adjusting for population sizes, we're still light-years apart in terms of police force.

Keeping in mind that for the US, the number is about 1,000 per year on average.

Denmark: All police have carried their sidearm on-duty since 1965.
Total people killed by police per year: ~4
Adjust population size to compare to us: 231 (around 1/5th of our number)

France: Police are regularly armed
Total people killed by police per year: ~14
Adjust population size to compare to us: 70 (less than 1/10th of our number)

Germany: Police are regularly armed
Total people killed by police per year: ~10
Adjust population size to compare to us: 40 (less than 1/20th of our number)

Netherlands: Police are armed around 50% of the time
Total people killed by police per year: 3
Adjust population size to compare to us: 58 (roughly 1/20th of our number)

In any of those nations...is the population armed as well?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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U.S. police killed 1,129 people in 2017, but that’s not the full body count
Another piece of this analysis missing are those that are not killed, which is an important factor when considering instituting reforms. I am often struck by how different security and police forces act around the world, and in some cases, those countries are more dangerous. The United States needs to take a long hard look at how to reform and improve policing in America.

Based on this goofy report we should disband our police departments and never speak of law enforcement* ever again.

* :eek:
 
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StromRider

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Based on this goofy report we should disband our police departments and never speak of law enforcement* ever again.

* :eek:

What part of reforming and improving policing in the US was too hard to comprehend? I don't see anyone calling for ending policing but making it better.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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...but again, that leads us right into the next question I mentioned, why are there more of these cases and more of the circumstances that lead to these cases?

At the end of the day, no matter how far you follow it up the chain, there's still something they're doing differently than us that's leading to a more positive outcome.

Europeans are generally more civilized, educated, sophisticated, etc. than Americans. How they deal with crime stems from this.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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What part of reforming and improving policing in the US was too hard to comprehend? I don't see anyone calling for ending policing but making it better.

The report is grossly misleading. It should have been titled,

"Police murder 1,129 people in 2017, the majority of whom were minorities."
 
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Almost there

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U.S. police killed 1,129 people in 2017, but that’s not the full body count
Another piece of this analysis missing are those that are not killed, which is an important factor when considering instituting reforms. I am often struck by how different security and police forces act around the world, and in some cases, those countries are more dangerous. The United States needs to take a long hard look at how to reform and improve policing in America.
A lot of cops earn the minimum wage. It's not happening overnight, but a lot of rural areas are becoming a bit like mexico when it comes to the quality of our cops.
 
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Par5

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How do you account for falling homicide rates even as gun ownership increases in America (better ER care notwithstanding).

Forbes Welcome
Any reduction in homicides can only be considered good. I'm not sure though if you can correlate that reduction with an increase in gun ownership.
 
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Macril

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Any article which takes this intentional detour, quote:

"With President Donald Trump taunting his way into nuclear warfare..."

Is worth neither reading nor discussing, as the author in engaged in personal opinion promotion and agenda advocacy.

You kind of diluted your point by reading and discussing about it.
 
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TheBear

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Any reduction in homicides can only be considered good. I'm not sure though if you can correlate that reduction with an increase in gun ownership.
That might be true. However, an increase in gun ownership occurring during the same time as a reduction in homicides, at minimum destroys the notion that an increase in gun ownership increases homicides.
 
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Macril

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How do you account for falling homicide rates even as gun ownership increases in America (better ER care notwithstanding).

Forbes Welcome

That research is almost five years old and based even older data.

If people have a need to use old research to prove something it would be a decent thing to mention the that data is old.
 
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