U.S. police killed 1,129 people in 2017, but that’s not the full body count

[OldWiseGuy]

That research is almost five years old and based even older data.

If people have a need to use old research to prove something it would be a decent thing to mention the that data is old.

Lots of more current data that shows the same declines.

Crime in 2017: A Preliminary Analysis

5 facts about crime in the U.S.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm just glad to hear that police officers survived 1,129 deadly encounters with criminals last year.

Sadly in many cases both suspect and cop were killed.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Sadly in many cases both suspect and cop were killed.

True, and that is unfortunate.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What part of reforming and improving policing in the US was too hard to comprehend? I don't see anyone calling for ending policing but making it better.

Reform has been suggested for many years, but meaningful changes haven't appeared. For example murderers still languish on 'death row' for decades thanks to endless appeals. Crime victims are still being victimized again by the State.

 

[JIMINZ]

Unless one is not white, of course.

Or answering the door.

Or on your knees/belly.

Or sat in a car.

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Your speaking from a point of first hand knowledge ....right?

 

[Macril]

Lots of more current data that shows the same declines.

Nothing links those declines to increase in gun ownership.

 

[JIMINZ]

The math has already been done and when you see the number of gun deaths in the US compared with other high-income countries, taking into consideration the countries populations, sad to say, the US has a very much higher number of gun-related deaths.
Gun Violence Archive gives a death toll in the US, for the first two weeks of January 2018 due to firearms, of over 450. Polite is not a word I would use to describe such a terrible loss of human life.
Gun Violence Archive

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There are some other statistics, and demographics which I'm sure your not counting, as the biggest contributor, that when added in, would give a clearer understanding of the issue of gun violence in the US.

But that is a different thread, as of yet un-posted.

All in all, I would rather be here than where you are.

 

[Larniavc]

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Your speaking from a point of first hand knowledge ....right?

*You’re* saying those things did not happen?

 

[JIMINZ]

*You’re* saying those things did not happen?

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Your speaking from a point of view which doesn't know the why's of any given situation, it's just a hot button issue with you, your big chance to bash the US.
And if a person is sat in a car, where does that relate to the 1,129 dead?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

In any of those nations...is the population armed as well?

...well, I think we both know the answer to that question.

However, when I've brought this up before, people have insisted more guns always makes us safer, any restrictions of such guns is a slippery slope into tyranny, and civilians having near-unrestricted access to them effectively prevents them from being abused by "the authority".

If the reason for the lower rates of violent crime and lower rates of police shootings are due to less access to firearms, then the NRA (and the GOP) has some explaining to do.

Now, with my snarky statement out of the way (I'm actually a gun guy so I have no desire for overbearing restrictions on firearms, just some reasonable ones like what the Czech Republic has)...yes, there are other nations that have a somewhat well-armed populace (or a population that does have access to firearms) that still doesn't have this level of police use of force. (Like Switzerland or the Czech Republic for example)

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Europeans are generally more civilized, educated, sophisticated, etc. than Americans. How they deal with crime stems from this.

So basically, the prescription for lowering these incidents is to listen to what the GOP says, and basically do the opposite on most issues.

- Their stances on education all but guarantee that fewer people will be educated, and for those who do get one, it will be watered down and voided of any standards.

- Civilization, defined as: the process by which a society or place reaches an advanced stage of social development and organization, would be labelled as a "progressive agenda" by many in the GOP.

- Obviously we know sophistication is out the window, we're still trying to convince 40% of the population not to try to restrict the rights of others for things that have no impact on them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

...well, I think we both know the answer to that question.

That's a no then.

Now, with my snarky statement out of the way

I just went ahead and removed it...since I didn't make that argument.

(I'm actually a gun guy so I have no desire for overbearing restrictions on firearms, just some reasonable ones like what the Czech Republic has)...yes, there are other nations that have a somewhat well-armed populace (or a population that does have access to firearms) that still doesn't have this level of police use of force. (Like Switzerland or the Czech Republic for example)

Does the Czech Republic have anywhere near the same level of restrictions as Switzerland? Because if it does...I think we both know the validity of this point....none.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Nothing links those declines to increase in gun ownership.

No one said it did.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So basically, the prescription for lowering these incidents is to listen to what the GOP says, and basically do the opposite on most issues.

True of both parties. Neither knows what they're doing.

Their stances on education all but guarantee that fewer people will be educated, and for those who do get one, it will be watered down and voided of any standards.

Liberals run the education system, not GOP "stances".

- Civilization, defined as: the process by which a society or place reaches an advanced stage of social development and organization, would be labelled as a "progressive agenda" by many in the GOP.

Social development demands personal responsibility and accountability, something generally absent from liberal thought.

Obviously we know sophistication is out the window, we're still trying to convince 40% of the population not to try to restrict the rights of others for things that have no impact on them.

What "rights" be these?

 

[Par5]

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There are some other statistics, and demographics which I'm sure your not counting, as the biggest contributor, that when added in, would give a clearer understanding of the issue of gun violence in the US.

But that is a different thread, as of yet un-posted.

All in all, I would rather be here than where you are.

I am sure there are other factors that contribute to the number of gun-related deaths in the US, but no matter how many statistics are produced it doesn't make the problem go away, the end product is still gun violence.
I'm glad you are happy where you are, but what makes you say you would rather be where you are than where I am?

 

[Larniavc]

Liberals run the education system, not GOP "stances".

Who currently is in charge of the American education industry?

That’s right! It’s Betsy DeVos!

 

[Larniavc]

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Your speaking from a point of view which doesn't know the why's of any given situation, it's just a hot button issue with you, your big chance to bash the US.
And if a person is sat in a car, where does that relate to the 1,129 dead?

My point is even when you do nothing wrong you can get shot and killed by the American police force.

Sometime simply answering the door is enough.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Who currently is in charge of the American education industry?

That’s right! It’s Betsy DeVos!

So now the entire curriculum of American education is suddenly conservative leaning? Kids are now learning American history from the American point of view? I think not.

 

[Larniavc]

So now the entire curriculum of American education is suddenly conservative leaning? Kids are now learning American history from the American point of view? I think not.

I was showing you how your assumption that American education industry is run by liberals is inaccurate.

It is currently being run by an arch conservative.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I was showing you how your assumption that American education industry is run by liberals is inaccurate.

It is currently being run by an arch conservative.

Being the "titular head" of the Department of Education is meaningless unless her conservative educational policies are imposed on the entire system. The liberal teacher's unions run the system of classroom education regardless of who is at the top.