U.S. police killed 1,129 people in 2017, but that’s not the full body count

StromRider

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So now the entire curriculum of American education is suddenly conservative leaning? Kids are now learning American history from the American point of view? I think not.

Are you equating 'conservative leaning' with 'the American point of view'? Does that mean someone who is liberal leaning can't have an American point of view?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Are you equating 'conservative leaning' with 'the American point of view'? Does that mean someone who is liberal leaning can't have an American point of view?

No, I'm not equating them.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Right to marry someone you love even if they are same gender ?

I have no problem with that. In fact I wish all such people would be in a sanctioned monogamous relationship; marriage if you will.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Yes, but you are such a progressive. There are some really old dogs and for them things like that are really hard to swallow.

I'm more pragmatic than progressive.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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True of both parties. Neither knows what they're doing.

That may be true in some regards...however, even based on your own assessments (education and civility are the keys to improving this situation, based on your earlier statements), the liberals are pointing closer to the right direction on that one.

Attempting to stave off the harsher effects of poverty (one of which being crime), fighting for educational availability for everyone, etc...

Liberals run the education system, not GOP "stances".

That's not true. There might be more teachers who go left than right, but that's different than "running the system", the system is ran by legislators and they influence the direction it takes based on where they direct funding.

Currently, any efforts to make education more widely available are met with accusations of socialism, and any efforts at putting reasonable standards in place are met with nonsensical memes about "common core math" and how "the public school system is trying to get rid of Christianity"

What "rights" be these?

Any right that doesn't directly impact someone else, but that people still feel compelled to try to restrict in the name of their own religious ideals.

Civility (or being part of a civilization), means treating others in society with respect, saying "I don't like when people do that, so they shouldn't be allowed", or looking at someone in an unfortunate situation, due to no fault of their own, and blaming them instead of helping them, is the exact opposite of civility.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Does the Czech Republic have anywhere near the same level of restrictions as Switzerland? Because if it does...I think we both know the validity of this point....none.

No, the Czech republic is actually closer to us in terms of gun legislation...a similar percentage of their population has concealed carry permits, and they're allowed to own handguns, shotguns, AR's, etc...


Gun laws in the Czech Republic - Wikipedia


...so, it is a valid point.


I just went ahead and removed it...since I didn't make that argument.

You may not have made it, but others (who are fairly close to you on the political spectrum) have made it, therefore it's fair to talk about. Are you acknowledging that letting any old person have a gun without any licensing requirement or screening may put police a bit on-edge? If the NRA's ideal model for gun legislation is actually leading to more abuse by those in the role of authority and not less, then they've been lying to people.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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That may be true in some regards...however, even based on your own assessments (education and civility are the keys to improving this situation, based on your earlier statements), the liberals are pointing closer to the right direction on that one.

Attempting to stave off the harsher effects of poverty (one of which being crime), fighting for educational availability for everyone, etc...



That's not true. There might be more teachers who go left than right, but that's different than "running the system", the system is ran by legislators and they influence the direction it takes based on where they direct funding.

Currently, any efforts to make education more widely available are met with accusations of socialism, and any efforts at putting reasonable standards in place are met with nonsensical memes about "common core math" and how "the public school system is trying to get rid of Christianity"



Any right that doesn't directly impact someone else, but that people still feel compelled to try to restrict in the name of their own religious ideals.

Civility (or being part of a civilization), means treating others in society with respect, saying "I don't like when people do that, so they shouldn't be allowed", or looking at someone in an unfortunate situation, due to no fault of their own, and blaming them instead of helping them, is the exact opposite of civility.

Both sides have given up all hope for a better society, and have made an industry out of our problems, most of which they are heavily invested in.
 
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Ana the Ist

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No, the Czech republic is actually closer to us in terms of gun legislation...a similar percentage of their population has concealed carry permits, and they're allowed to own handguns, shotguns, AR's, etc...


Gun laws in the Czech Republic - Wikipedia


...so, it is a valid point.

By "closer" you must mean "closer than other european nations"...but still a far far cry from what we have, as evidenced by this part of your link...

"Gun licenses may be obtained in a way very similar to a driving license – by passing a gun proficiency exam, medical examination and having a clean criminal record. "

So no...not really comparable to the U.S...and not a valid point.


You may not have made it, but others...*snip*

Then engage those "others" and their poor arguments. I don't really need to explain why /how you're engaging in a logical fallacy here...do I? You're an adult...you know that...

1. Bringing up arguments I didn't make and then pretending they're mine has nothing to do with what I said.

2. You don't have the slightest idea what my "political leanings" are.

So please, don't pretend that you do.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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By "closer" you must mean "closer than other european nations"...but still a far far cry from what we have, as evidenced by this part of your link...

"Gun licenses may be obtained in a way very similar to a driving license – by passing a gun proficiency exam, medical examination and having a clean criminal record. "

So no...not really comparable to the U.S...and not a valid point.

They're actually more lax than some of our states in terms of the types of firearms one can own, and CCW licensing. Just because they're stricter in one aspect, isn't a reflection in the overall nature of their gun culture. So you're attempt to invalidate my point was a swing and a miss.

Not to mention, police shootings happen at a higher rate in our country across the board and don't appear to be tied in anyway to gun ownership rate on a state by state basis.

You don't have the slightest idea what my "political leanings" are.

So please, don't pretend that you do.

I don't have to pretend, we've been in numerous threads, and with the exception of one or two that exclusively focused on religion, you've sided with the right in most if not all cases. It's safe to say you lean right on the political spectrum. I can track down several of your posts as a discussion point if you'd like me to...

I can't stand when people play this "imply then deny" game...blatantly take one side over the other in thread after thread, and then pretend that their political leanings are some sort of elusive mystery and "how dare you claim to know what my political affiliations are!!!". It's just a way for people to bash the other side, without having to ever own up to the nonsense coming from their own side.
 
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Ana the Ist

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They're actually more lax than some of our states in terms of the types of firearms one can own, and CCW licensing. Just because they're stricter in one aspect, isn't a reflection in the overall nature of their gun culture. So you're attempt to invalidate my point was a swing and a miss.

Well they're stricter in the requirements that count...namely the basic requirements for any gun ownership. I could care less about CCW and what "types" they allow.

Not to mention, police shootings happen at a higher rate in our country across the board and don't appear to be tied in anyway to gun ownership rate on a state by state basis.

Really?

More guns, more crime: New research debunks a central thesis of the gun rights movement

"The totality of the evidence based on educated judgments about the best statistical models suggests that right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, robbery, rape and murder, Donohue said in an interviewwith the Stanford Report."


I don't have to pretend, we've been in numerous threads, and with the exception of one or two that exclusively focused on religion, you've sided with the right in most if not all cases.

Perhaps the left had poor arguments on those threads...I can't say I know what you're talking about.



It's safe to say you lean right on the political spectrum.

I disagree.

I can track down several of your posts as a discussion point if you'd like me to...

Please do.

I can't stand when people play this "imply then deny" game...blatantly take one side over the other in thread after thread, and then pretend that their political leanings are some sort of elusive mystery and "how dare you claim to know what my political affiliations are!!!". It's just a way for people to bash the other side, without having to ever own up to the nonsense coming from their own side.

I can't stand when idiots assume my position on anything when it's far simpler to just ask. That's what I do...I just ask.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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"The totality of the evidence based on educated judgments about the best statistical models suggests that right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, robbery, rape and murder, Donohue said in an interview with the Stanford Report."

I wasn't discussing right-to-carry laws, I was discussing gun ownership rates.

...right-to-carry laws are their own kind of lunacy, licensed CCW holders actually have a fairly low murder rate.

I could care less about CCW and what "types" they allow.

I know...because any piece of information that doesn't allow you to make your point isn't worth caring about, right?
 
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Ana the Ist

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I wasn't discussing right-to-carry laws, I was discussing gun ownership rates.

Well perhaps you should be...since virtually every questionable shooting in the last 5 years occurred in public.



I know...because any piece of information that doesn't allow you to make your point isn't worth caring about, right?

You're not thinking. If the bar for basic gun ownership of any kind is massively higher than it is in the U.S....then what does it matter if they have similar CCW laws? They've already made it much harder than we do for the nutcases/criminals to get their hands on a gun.
 
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