U.S. Coronavirus Highest Day Ever

[Searching1God]

As of today France has had:
1,087,497 cases
34,645 deaths

USA has had:
8,827,932 cases
230,068 deaths

France population has 67 million
USA has 328.2 million

USA has 4.9 times more population than France.

Lets adjust France tally to USA by multiplying by 4.9
France adjusted tally:
5,328,735 cases vs USA 8,827,932 cases 65.7% more than France
169,760.5 vs USA 230,068 deaths 35.5% more than France

So why, comparatively speaking has USA had 60,000 more deaths than France?
Is that because Trump's followers aren't social distancing and are refusing to wear masks?
Why are Trump's followers not social distancing or refusing to wear masks? Is it because of things Trump has said? Because of things Fox news have said or both?

BTW - France are in the middle of Europe who are being over run.
A better comparison would be Canada vs USA. How does that comparison look?

I am so glad you are bringing up this kind of comparison and asking why the US is having 60,000 more death than France.

Let's look at THE FLU, will you? Last year, 8,800 people died of the flu in France, which was pretty average for them:
Épidémie de grippe 2019 en France : le bilan - Santé Sans Tabou
Key statement: "8800 personnes ont malheureusement perdu la vie."

Meanwhile, in the US about 80,000 people die of the flu each year.

How come no one ever asked before why the US routinely has 60,000+ more people than France dying of the flu each year?

 

[Searching1God]

Meanwhile, in countries like Japan who have one of the lowest rates of Covid death and the strickest social isolation and mask compliance, something like 2000 have died of Covid.

Do you know how many people have also died of SUICIDE in Japan: more than 13,000 so far. Suicide has killed more people than Covid. I wonder why... but I guess that's good, right?

 

[Searching1God]

But I digressed. Back to Covid, if we compare the population of Japan to that of France, France has had comparatively way more Covid death than Japan.

So my original question stands, why aren't the French taking to task their president Macron and holding him responsible for those extra deaths?

 

[Searching1God]

A comparison with Canada gives:
213,959 cases
9,922 deaths

population of Canada = 37.59
USA has 8.7 times more population than Canada.

Adjusted tallies
1,861,443 cases vs USA 8,827,932 cases 374.25% more than Canada
86,321 vs USA 230,068 deaths 166.52% more than Canada

So why, comparatively speaking has USA had 143,747 more deaths than Canada?
Something to do with refusal to social distance or wear masks given the misinformation passed on by the president and his favourite Media outlet?

Why comparatively speaking has France had way more deaths than Canada?
If we are going to blame presidents and their media outlet, how does that apply to the French situation?

 

[Searching1God]

My previous 4 posts were to generate thoughts, instead of the partisan knee jerk reaction of blaming everything on Trump. That stuff gets so old.

Deep down, I know it is a waste of time. Not even sure why I bothered...

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Meanwhile, in countries like Japan who have one of the lowest rates of Covid death and the strickest social isolation and mask compliance, something like 2000 have died of Covid.

Do you know how many people have also died of SUICIDE in Japan: more than 13,000 so far. Suicide has killed more people than Covid. I wonder why... but I guess that's good, right?

I’m not sure what you are going for here. Suicide is a problem in Japanese society but if your 13,000 number is currently correct, Japan is on pace to have less suicides this year than the 19,959 they had last year. COVID restrictions hasn’t exasperated the problem. If anything, it has made it less of a problem.

 

[Searching1God]

I’m not sure what you are going for here. Suicide is a problem in Japanese society but if your 13,000 number is currently correct, Japan is on pace to have less suicides this year than the 19,959 they had last year. COVID restrictions hasn’t exasperated the problem. If anything, it has made it less of a problem.

Wrong!

Prior to Covid, suicide rates had been going down in Japan, but since Covid, suicide rates have spiked:

Suicide Spike in Japan Shows Mental Health Toll of Covid-19

 

[Searching1God]

Did you notice how hardly anyone even bother posting differing opinions on Covid anymore on this forum? Because most of us know it is a waste of time.

 

[cow451]

Did you notice how hardly anyone even bother posting differing opinions on Covid anymore on this forum? Because most of us know it is a waste of time.

Given the established evidence that basic social distancing and face coverings make a big difference, there’s less to disagree over.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Wrong!

Prior to Covid, suicide rates had been going down in Japan, but since Covid, suicide rates have spiked:

Suicide Spike in Japan Shows Mental Health Toll of Covid-19

It tells of a jump in August over August from last year but on the year it still is down from last year. The sentence you got the 13,000 number from says it is falling. They should already be over 16,000 right now to be even with last year.

 

[Searching1God]

It tells of a jump in August over August from last year but on the year it still is down from last year. The sentence you got the 13,000 number from says it is falling. They should already be over 16,000 right now to be even with last year.

The article says, and I have to change some words and use synonyms as I cannot reprint it here, the post will be deleted as violating rules:

The suicide rate has been falling but it still remains a top cause of premature deaths -- this year, suicide has taken over 13,000 lives, while total Covid-19 fatalities number less than 2,000.

According to government statistics, the number of suicides in August went up by 15.4% to 1,854. Although a smaller proportion of suicides, the number of women commiting suicide jumped by around 40%. The number of suicides of students in elementary to high school more than doubled to 59 from the same period last year.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

The article says, and I have to change some words and use synonyms as I cannot reprint it here, the post will be deleted as violating rules:

The suicide rate has been falling but it still remains a top cause of premature deaths -- this year, suicide has taken over 13,000 lives, while total Covid-19 fatalities number less than 2,000.

According to government statistics, the number of suicides in August went up by 15.4% to 1,854. Although a smaller proportion of suicides, the number of women commiting suicide jumped by around 40%. The number of suicides of students in elementary to high school more than doubled to 59 from the same period last year.

I know there were more this August compared to last August. But when you compare this year, 13,000 as you quote, to last years total, 19,959, Suicides in Japan fell below 20,000 to record low last year, it’s on pace to be lower than that number since we have only 68 days left in 2020.

 

[stevil]

I am so glad you are bringing up this kind of comparison and asking why the US is having 60,000 more death than France.

Let's look at THE FLU, will you? Last year, 8,800 people died of the flu in France, which was pretty average for them:
Épidémie de grippe 2019 en France : le bilan - Santé Sans Tabou
Key statement: "8800 personnes ont malheureusement perdu la vie."

Meanwhile, in the US about 80,000 people die of the flu each year.

How come no one ever asked before why the US routinely has 60,000+ more people than France dying of the flu each year?

This Is How Many People Die From the Flu Each Year
Preliminary CDC estimates for the 2019-2020 influenza season indicate that, as of April 4, 2020, between 24,000 and 62,000 lost their lives to the flu.

Influenza
annual seasonal outbreaks that affect 2 to 8 million people in France every year, with influenza-associated excess mortality estimated at 10,000 to 15,000 deaths

so if we use the 4.9 times multiplier to adjust for population difference, then we have
France flu adjusted totals:
49,000 to 73,500 deaths per year compared to USA's 24,000 and 62,000
France's rate seems a bit higher than what USA got in the 2019-2020 season.

And yet France's Covid death rate is way lower than USA's even though France is in the middle of Europe, and Europe has had a massive pandemic.

 

[cow451]

The article says, and I have to change some words and use synonyms as I cannot reprint it here, the post will be deleted as violating rules:

The suicide rate has been falling but it still remains a top cause of premature deaths -- this year, suicide has taken over 13,000 lives, while total Covid-19 fatalities number less than 2,000.

According to government statistics, the number of suicides in August went up by 15.4% to 1,854. Although a smaller proportion of suicides, the number of women commiting suicide jumped by around 40%. The number of suicides of students in elementary to high school more than doubled to 59 from the same period last year.

Well, thank you for making me feel so much better about the 220,000 or so Americans that have died so far from COVID.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Yes. It's taken more seriously now. Even through Dr. Birx and the other administration public health officials were already pleading with people to wear masks starting in late May.

If only the national leadership had reinforced that life saving message back in June....

When the virus was still at a low level....

Maybe you need the President or "national leadership" to tell you what to do. I do not. I know what to do and when to take safety measures, based on the evidence we have. I trust that most others do too.

But then there is a contingent out there pushing for more micromanagement, which I find perplexing.

 

[stevil]

So my original question stands, why aren't the French taking to task their president Macron and holding him responsible for those extra deaths?

I haven't been following what has been happening in France, so I'm not up on the play as to what has been happening there over the recent months.

AS my comparrison in previous posts show, France has done way better than USA, their infection rate and death rate is way lower.

But here are some articles blaming Macron for a poor pandemic response
How President Emmanuel Macron bungled France’s coronavirus response
As the number of confirmed cases and deaths continues to rise, popular food markets have been turned into makeshift morgues and high-speed trains have become Covid-19 patient transport vehicles.

Much of the blame lies at the feet of French President Emmanuel Macron’s government, whose slow response and critical missteps in the early days of the Covid-19 outbreak set the stage for France’s current crisis.

Macron crisis: President on the brink after surge in anger at France's Covid response
DISTRUST of Emmanuel Macron appears to be growing rapidly across France, with a new poll showing six in 10 citizens disagree with the president's handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

Macron's misery: French President 'completely bungled' coronavirus response - anger grows
EMMANUEL Macron is widely perceived to have "completely bungled" France's coronavirus response - and his aloof, distant style of leadership is damaging the entire French political system, a UK-based expert has said.

But, it should be noted, that even though France bungled their Covid-19 response they still did a much better job than USA did.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

A comparison with Canada gives:
213,959 cases
9,922 deaths

population of Canada = 37.59
USA has 8.7 times more population than Canada.

Adjusted tallies
1,861,443 cases vs USA 8,827,932 cases 374.25% more than Canada
86,321 vs USA 230,068 deaths 166.52% more than Canada

So why, comparatively speaking has USA had 143,747 more deaths than Canada?
Something to do with refusal to social distance or wear masks given the misinformation passed on by the president and his favourite Media outlet?

On it's surface, that's a fair point...population adjusted totals show that we've faired far worse than Canada. However, a couple factors need to be pointed out with regards to that.

1) Huge disparities (after adjusting for population sizes) existed for H1N1 for 2009-2010 between the US and Canada.

2) That was at a time when we had Obama, and Canadians had Conservative Stephen Harper.

3) The "president wasn't setting a good example" argument only plays if it was a scenario where there is consistency in terms of the places that have had the worst spikes were places where more are inclined to look up to him as a thought leader, and less severe outcomes in the places that largely reject him and his rhetoric.

That wasn't the case. In terms of outcomes and the predominant political ideology of the region of said outcomes, there didn't seem to be a prevailing pattern.

If it were a case where all of the left-leaning areas of the country did great and had "Canada-ish" kinds of numbers, and all of the deep-red areas of "Trump country" were having numbers through the roof, then the "Trump set a bad example" would be a great explanation for it.

However, when you see Texas, California, New York, and Florida all had really bad numbers, that premise of "Trump's bad example being the cause" becomes less plausible, as while there may be many who look up to him a "thought leader" in TX, FL and GA, I don't think the same is true of NYC and Cali.

The notion that there's swaths of left-leaning folks in NYC or San Francisco saying "gee, I would've socially distanced more if Trump would've just told me to" is a bit of a stretch. Unless people think this is honestly the one and only outlier where his political opponents would've taken his opinion seriously about something?

 

[Halbhh]

in the US about 80,000 people die of the flu each year.

Better check on that figure.
I know it's inaccurate as an average.

Here are the last 10 years: (see rightmost column)
Past Seasons Estimated Influenza Disease Burden | CDC

Now that you see that was an erroneous number, I wonder what source misled you?

 

[stevil]

1) Huge disparities (after adjusting for population sizes) existed for H1N1 for 2009-2010 between the US and Canada.

H1N1 wasn't anywhere near as deadly, and the response was obviously then a different approach altogether.

3) The "president wasn't setting a good example" argument only plays if it was a scenario where there is consistency in terms of the places that have had the worst spikes were places where more are inclined to look up to him as a thought leader, and less severe outcomes in the places that largely reject him and his rhetoric.

Trump's public words of downplaying (as well as Fox's parroting of Trump or vice versa) is unforgivable in my opinion. I live in a country that dealt with the pandemic successfully, and I saw first hand that combating the disease took the whole country to band together and act responsibly, and that could only happen because the leader took it seriously and came up with an effective plan and asked us to do our part.

That wasn't the case. In terms of outcomes and the predominant political ideology of the region of said outcomes, there didn't seem to be a prevailing pattern.

There is more than one reason why it spread in your country. Not just because Trump supporters are ignoring the pandemic and not doing their bit. It hit cities early on because it came in from overseas, Trump put a partial ban on Chinese people coming in from China but didn't put any measure in place for the tens of thousands of non Chinese coming in from China or the thousands coming in from Europe.

The notion that there's swaths of left-leaning folks in NYC or San Francisco saying "gee, I would've socially distanced more if Trump would've just told me to" is a bit of a stretch. Unless people think this is honestly the one and only outlier where his political opponents would've taken his opinion seriously about something?

You need the whole country to do it. If 50% are walking around saying, what pandemic? It's a plandemic, a conspiracy by the Deomocrats. I'm not going to wear a mask, I have the RIGHT not to.
Then it doesn't matter if the other 50% are being responsible, the disease will still spread right through your population.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You need the whole country to do it. If 50% are walking around saying, what pandemic? It's a plandemic, a conspiracy by the Deomocrats. I'm not going to wear a mask, I have the RIGHT not to.
Then it doesn't matter if the other 50% are being responsible, the disease will still spread right through your population.

That's why I mentioned the region-specific aspect.

Sure, if you have a city where 50% is pro-Trump (and not taking it seriously) and the other 50% is anti-Trump (and is taking it seriously) and they're all going to the same restaurants, stores, etc... then that would make sense.

However, there are areas of the country where it's no where close to a 50/50 split. You have certain areas of the country where you can't drive 200 feet without seeing a "MAGA" sign in someone's yard, and you have other areas it's almost exclusively liberal.

Obviously California got hit pretty hard, they were under strict rules (that were being enforced) by a governor that certainly is not pro-Trump. California is largely democratic (and even more anti-Trump as even of the statistical outliers that identify as republicans, for many, that's only true when it comes to local and state politics and they still go blue for presidential elections), certain counties in Cali are nearly 90% Democratic.

There's no doubt that some people in California (and it other places) weren't taking it seriously. We all read the news reports about people sneaking off to have house parties and gatherings (against Gov orders) in places like NYC, Chicago, and California.

...but is that "lack of seriousness" really attributable to Trump? Or just a more general selfishness by 20-somethings who said "I'm tired of being cooped up like this, I'm going over to by buddies house for some brews" or "I wanna party!"

This article elaborates
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/tiktok-house-party-charged-1.5703973

Either the TikTok Influencer/DJ/Rave scene in West Hollywood is a bastion for closet Trump supporters, or Trump's mask refusal isn't as influential as people are implying.

Same for the viral (figurative and literal) house parties that a few different DJ's in Chicago were busted for hosting.

I'm thinking those parties weren't very heavy on Trump supporters...

I think I see maybe a grand total of 2 or 3 masks in there...(and only 1 who's wearing it property at that)