U.S. Coronavirus Highest Day Ever

[Halbhh]

Maybe you need the President or "national leadership" to tell you what to do. I do not. I know what to do and when to take safety measures, based on the evidence we have. I trust that most others do too.

But then there is a contingent out there pushing for more micromanagement, which I find perplexing.

If someone suggests I wear a seatbelt, which I routinely do already, I don't get my back up and say I don't need someone to tell me how to think.

Because I have always thought for myself, and am secure about it.

I just smile and agree. I like it they care about me.

I don't have a need to rebel against all advice.

 

[stevil]

That's why I mentioned the region-specific aspect.

Sure, if you have a city where 50% is pro-Trump (and not taking it seriously) and the other 50% is anti-Trump (and is taking it seriously) and they're all going to the same restaurants, stores, etc... then that would make sense.

It doesn't have to be a 50/50 split. 10% would be bad enough.

Obviously California got hit pretty hard, they were under strict rules (that were being enforced) by a governor that certainly is not pro-Trump.

What about my point that there were lots of people coming in to the populated cities from overseas?

...but is that "lack of seriousness" really attributable to Trump? Or just a more general selfishness by 20-somethings who said "I'm tired of being cooped up like this, I'm going over to by buddies house for some brews" or "I wanna party!"

I wouldn't be so bold as to claim that ALL Democratic party voters are responsible.

 

[stevil]

If someone suggests I wear a seatbelt, which I routinely do already, I don't get my back up and say I don't need someone to tell me how to think.

Because I have always thought for myself, and am secure about it.

I just smile and agree. I like it they care about me.

I don't have a need to rebel against all advice.

But it would look pretty weird, if a task force (put together by the president) into reducing road deaths, goes on tv, introduces seat belts to the country and recommends people wear them, then immediately after that message, the president gets in front of the camera and says "I wont be wearing a seat belt"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It doesn't have to be a 50/50 split. 10% would be bad enough.

Sure...

But if you have some areas where fewer people are taking seriously, getting impacted less than areas where 90% of people are taking it seriously... that shows that "level of seriousness" is just one factor among many.

Which is why I reject the notion that "this could've been largely avoided if Trump just set a good example with mask wearing and social distancing" as some are trying to spin it.

Those West Hollywood parties, and those DJ-hosted House Parties that got busted in Chicago and NYC would've happened no matter who the president was, and no matter what any politician said.

The reality is, people in their teens and 20's don't hang on every word a politician or pundit says. They were cooped up for weeks, going stir crazy, and wanted to go party. Trump/Obama/Hillary/Mitt Romney/Bernie/Anderson Cooper/Tucker Carlson/Ben Shapiro (name a politician/pundit) could've said "You can't do that, you have to keep distance" till they were blue in the face, it wouldn't have mattered.

As a point of reference, the one Hollywood DJ who got busted for throwing a massive party clearly doesn't seem to like Trump too much, based on this photo he posted:

"I met my idol Donald Trump" (while posing next to a trash bin)

What about my point that there were lots of people coming in to the populated cities from overseas?

That's certainly a factor...however, to stave off that vector of transmission, both parties would've needed to have been in concerted agreement about travel restrictions back in mid-January, and that wasn't happening.

One side wanted to restrict travel (but limit to a select few countries that wouldn't have been enough)
The other side wasn't on-board with restricting it at all.

I wouldn't be so bold as to claim that ALL Democratic party voters are responsible.

Nor would I...

I'm simply saying that trying to blame it on "lack of president setting a good mask wearing example" as major contributor is ignoring a heck of a lot of other aspects that are far more impactful.

I don't lay the blame at the feet of any politician for this one (apart from the ones that actively withheld data from the WHO instead of being transparent so that other countries could start trying to get prepared)

 

[Halbhh]

Sure...

But if you have some areas where fewer people are taking seriously, getting impacted less than areas where 90% of people are taking it seriously... that shows that "level of seriousness" is just one factor among many.

Which is why I reject the notion that "this could've been largely avoided if Trump just set a good example with mask wearing and social distancing" as some are trying to spin it.

Those West Hollywood parties, and those DJ-hosted House Parties that got busted in Chicago and NYC would've happened no matter who the president was, and no matter what any politician said.

The reality is, people in their teens and 20's don't hang on every word a politician or pundit says. They were cooped up for weeks, going stir crazy, and wanted to go party. Trump/Obama/Hillary/Mitt Romney/Bernie/Anderson Cooper/Tucker Carlson/Ben Shapiro (name a politician/pundit) could've said "You can't do that, you have to keep distance" till they were blue in the face, it wouldn't have mattered.

As a point of reference, the one Hollywood DJ who got busted for throwing a massive party clearly doesn't seem to like Trump too much, based on this photo he posted:
View attachment 287132

"I met my idol Donald Trump" (while posing next to a trash bin)



That's certainly a factor...however, to stave off that vector of transmission, both parties would've needed to have been in concerted agreement about travel restrictions back in mid-January, and that wasn't happening.

One side wanted to restrict travel (but limit to a select few countries that wouldn't have been enough)
The other side wasn't on-board with restricting it at all.



Nor would I...

I'm simply saying that trying to blame it on "lack of president setting a good mask wearing example" as major contributor is ignoring a heck of a lot of other aspects that are far more impactful.

I don't lay the blame at the feet of any politician for this one (apart from the ones that actively withheld data from the WHO instead of being transparent so that other countries could start trying to get prepared)

Ergo, it would have mattered for others -- a different group, millions that did actually follow Trumps lead -- who believed what Trump said when he downplayed the virus and made mask wearing just for occasional token show.

The other group, who would have worn a mask if Trump made it seem important and needed, patriotic.

 

[stevil]

Sure...

But if you have some areas where fewer people are taking seriously, getting impacted less than areas where 90% of people are taking it seriously... that shows that "level of seriousness" is just one factor among many.

Yes, one factor among many. All factors should be looked at. All.

Which is why I reject the notion that "this could've been largely avoided if Trump just set a good example with mask wearing and social distancing" as some are trying to spin it.

I think it would have made a significant difference if Trump and his administration (and foxnews) took the pandemic seriously, told the people it was deadly and highly contagious and promoted mask wearing and social distancing.

The reality is, people in their teens and 20's don't hang on every word a politician or pundit says. They were cooped up for weeks, going stir crazy, and wanted to go party.

If your country got on top of the pandemic, then it wouldn't have dragged on for so long.
If less were infected then these parties wouldn't have been such a problem.

I don't lay the blame at the feet of any politician for this one

People should be critical of all misteps. Trump should be criticised for downplaying and having his rallies etc.
Any other politicians that are making mistakes should also be criticised.

All mistakes should be called out. The leaders should be held to account.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

If someone suggests I wear a seatbelt, which I routinely do already, I don't get my back up and say I don't need someone to tell me how to think.

Because I have always thought for myself, and am secure about it.

I just smile and agree. I like it they care about me.

I don't have a need to rebel against all advice.

May I remind you that YOU are the one who said that national leadership needs to tell us what to do, not me.

Adults simply do not require top-down micromanagement and I certainly will not vote for those who believe that this is their job.

 

[stevil]

Adults simply do not require top-down micromanagement and I certainly will not vote for those who believe that this is their job.

I certainly agree.
We don't need the leader of the country telling gays that they can't get married, or telling women that they can't have abortions.

 

[jayem]

I don't lay the blame at the feet of any politician for this one (apart from the ones that actively withheld data from the WHO instead of being transparent so that other countries could start trying to get prepared)

If anyone was withholding information, it was Donald Trump. He knew in early Feb. that the novel coronavirus illness was serious. In the Bob Woodward interview, he's on tape saying it's deadly. And he knows it has airborne transmission:

“This is deadly stuff,” Trump told Woodward in the recording, recounting an earlier call with Chinese President Xi Jinping.

“It goes through air, Bob.” Trump said. “That’s always tougher than the touch. You know, the touch, you don’t have to touch things, right? But the air, you just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed..."

Trump admitted on tape that he knew COVID-19 was deadly

Yet he withholds this information from the public. And asserts that we'll have a few cases, and then the virus will "go away." (Which he still says 200,000+ deaths later.) To use a legal term, this is dissembling. It's hiding or disguising the truth, or not telling the whole truth. If he omitted this information while testifying under oath at a deposition, or in court as to when he was aware of the severity of SARS-CoV-2, he'd be committing perjury. Of course, that's not applicable here. This was just a news interview. But keeping the American people in the dark about the true nature of this illness is--at best--a gross error of judgement. Though more likely, he was afraid of political fallout in an election year. Which is exactly what happened because of his negligence.

 

[Pommer]

 

[Triumvirate]

nm

 

[Halbhh]

May I remind you that YOU are the one who said that national leadership needs to tell us what to do, not me.

Adults simply do not require top-down micromanagement and I certainly will not vote for those who believe that this is their job.

We're in need of better leadership now, on coronavirus, at the top.

Just like in war the nation can require military service at times -- no choice.

The best analogy, it's like a bad fire season, and the government can rightfully ban camp fires. Or other examples, require you carry out your own trash, no choice, e.t.c.

 

[Searching1God]

Well, thank you for making me feel so much better about the 220,000 or so Americans that have died so far from COVID.

Not sure why this is what you are getting from my post, but I will not interfere with your desire to feel better. I am not responsible for your feelings.

 

[Searching1God]

I haven't been following what has been happening in France, so I'm not up on the play as to what has been happening there over the recent months.

AS my comparrison in previous posts show, France has done way better than USA, their infection rate and death rate is way lower.

But here are some articles blaming Macron for a poor pandemic response
How President Emmanuel Macron bungled France’s coronavirus response
As the number of confirmed cases and deaths continues to rise, popular food markets have been turned into makeshift morgues and high-speed trains have become Covid-19 patient transport vehicles.

Much of the blame lies at the feet of French President Emmanuel Macron’s government, whose slow response and critical missteps in the early days of the Covid-19 outbreak set the stage for France’s current crisis.

Macron crisis: President on the brink after surge in anger at France's Covid response
DISTRUST of Emmanuel Macron appears to be growing rapidly across France, with a new poll showing six in 10 citizens disagree with the president's handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

Macron's misery: French President 'completely bungled' coronavirus response - anger grows
EMMANUEL Macron is widely perceived to have "completely bungled" France's coronavirus response - and his aloof, distant style of leadership is damaging the entire French political system, a UK-based expert has said.

But, it should be noted, that even though France bungled their Covid-19 response they still did a much better job than USA did.

Macron enjoyed a lot of support from the French for the way he handled the pandemic in the beginning. That support has waned in recent months, however, the French do not claim Macron is responsible for the Covid deaths. You don't hear those accusations from the French press. You don't hear those accusations from politicians.
People understand it's a pandemic, and that there will be deaths.
The French while unhappy with the way the pandemic is being handled - Some feel not enough precautions are being taken, some feel too much restrictions are forced - No one is blaming Macron for the deaths.

 

[Searching1God]

Better check on that figure.
I know it's inaccurate as an average.

Here are the last 10 years: (see rightmost column)
Past Seasons Estimated Influenza Disease Burden | CDC

Now that you see that was an erroneous number, I wonder what source misled you?

Flu season deaths top 80,000 last year, CDC says - CNN

Flu killed 80,000 people this past season. Someone infected all of them

 

[Searching1God]

Maybe you need the President or "national leadership" to tell you what to do. I do not. I know what to do and when to take safety measures, based on the evidence we have. I trust that most others do too.

But then there is a contingent out there pushing for more micromanagement, which I find perplexing.

The idea apparently seems to be that if the president tells people to do something, they will do it.

So if president Trump says to people, do not riot, they will not riot. If he says do not protest, they will not protest. If he says do not steal, they will not steal. If he says do not cheat on your wife, people will not cheat on their wives or spouse

Pandemic problem could be solved in an instant, if Trump said to people, wear masks. Who knew the president was so allmighty...

 

[Searching1God]

Deleted

 

[Searching1God]

That's why I mentioned the region-specific aspect.

Sure, if you have a city where 50% is pro-Trump (and not taking it seriously) and the other 50% is anti-Trump (and is taking it seriously) and they're all going to the same restaurants, stores, etc... then that would make sense.

However, there are areas of the country where it's no where close to a 50/50 split. You have certain areas of the country where you can't drive 200 feet without seeing a "MAGA" sign in someone's yard, and you have other areas it's almost exclusively liberal.

Obviously California got hit pretty hard, they were under strict rules (that were being enforced) by a governor that certainly is not pro-Trump. California is largely democratic (and even more anti-Trump as even of the statistical outliers that identify as republicans, for many, that's only true when it comes to local and state politics and they still go blue for presidential elections), certain counties in Cali are nearly 90% Democratic.

There's no doubt that some people in California (and it other places) weren't taking it seriously. We all read the news reports about people sneaking off to have house parties and gatherings (against Gov orders) in places like NYC, Chicago, and California.

...but is that "lack of seriousness" really attributable to Trump? Or just a more general selfishness by 20-somethings who said "I'm tired of being cooped up like this, I'm going over to by buddies house for some brews" or "I wanna party!"

This article elaborates
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/tiktok-house-party-charged-1.5703973

Either the TikTok Influencer/DJ/Rave scene in West Hollywood is a bastion for closet Trump supporters, or Trump's mask refusal isn't as influential as people are implying.

Same for the viral (figurative and literal) house parties that a few different DJ's in Chicago were busted for hosting.

I'm thinking those parties weren't very heavy on Trump supporters...

I think I see maybe a grand total of 2 or 3 masks in there...(and only 1 who's wearing it property at that)

Honestly, I don't blame those kids. By large, this virus does NOT kill them.

We are asking people in their 20s, the age when you want to be out there having fun, interracting and ENJOYING life in all its ways - speaking from experience here -, to sacrifice 2 years of their young lives, or however long this virus will last, to live in lockdown, forego social interraction and parties, all to save older folks...

The logical thing would have be to have those at risk stay in lockdown, while the rest of the population who is more likely to survive the virus allowed to resume semi normal lives. But logic has long gone out the window...

 

[cow451]

Not sure why this is what you are getting from my post, but I will not interfere with your desire to feel better. I am not responsible for your feelings.

And I feel so good in that knowledge.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Honestly, I don't blame those kids. By large, this virus does NOT kill them.

We are asking people in their 20s, the age when you want to be out there having fun, interracting and ENJOYING life in all its ways - speaking from experience here -, to sacrifice 2 years of their young lives, or however long this virus will last, to live in lockdown, forego social interraction and parties, all to save older folks...

The logical thing would have be to have those at risk stay in lockdown, while the rest of the population who is more likely to survive the virus allowed to resume semi normal lives. But logic has long gone out the window...

I don't blame them in terms of trying to chastise them, I say that their actions are largely to blame for being high vectors of transmission. (for lack of a better way of putting it)

What you're referring to is in-line with the Swedes' model for addressing it.

There is some evidence to suggest that their approach, more or less, doesn't make them significantly better or worse than their neighbors that implemented much stricter measures in terms of public health outcomes. One could make an argument that Sweden damaged their economy less than their neighbors though by never implementing a "hard shutdown"

Their peak took slightly longer to taper down, but by the end of July, they're basically at the same place with their neighbors in terms of deaths, and likely have more people with some sort of short term immunity.