Two NYPD executed

[FreeSpirit74]

He expressed sympathy for Eric Garner and concern for his own bi-racial son.


De Blasio talks of biracial son after Eric Garner grand jury - NY Daily News

And that comment is why the NYPD turned their backs on him. They view his comments as throwing them all under the bus.

 

[CryOfALion]

The blood is on the hands of one, unstable individual.

What We Know About Ismaaiyl Brinsley -- NYMag

Ah the twisting narrative of political "conservatism".

Guns don't kill people, neither do murderers that shoot them, rather Obama, Eric holder and the national media do.

Or, perhaps "talk to us first and we'll tell you who is responsible for bad things (oh right it's always liberals)".

You've summed up the conservative argument quite well.

Individual responsibility.

Aren't blanketed and generalized attitudes toward a broad stroke of persons how we got into this mess?

It was not the protester's fault.
It is not black people's fault.
It is not white people's fault.
It is not Asian people's fault.
It is not Latino people's fault.
It is not Eric's parent's fault.
It is not women's fault.
It is not homosexuals' fault.
It is not heterosexuals' fault.
It is not Christians' fault.
It is not atheists' fault.
It is not muslims' fault.
It is not Obama's fault.
It is not unicorns' fault.
It is not Cthulhu's fault.
It is not Holder's fault.
It is not Satan's fault.
It is not God's fault...

Those two cops were allegedly murdered by one person. That person - and all of his personality - are allegedly responsible for these cops' death. Don't take the race-politics-religion-orientation-[insert socioeconomic category here] bait. There are some people that would love nothing more than a race war - people in charge pulling strings.

If you take the bait you might find yourself on the wrong side of active history - having to explain to your grandchildren how your prejudices and susceptibility to demagoguery and emotionalism contributed to what may be to come.

 

[variant]

Individual responsibility.

Aren't blanketed and generalized attitudes toward a broad stroke of persons how we got into this mess?

I'm not sure why you are lecturing me on this point.

I was pointing out how many are quick to shift the weight of blame based upon their political grudges. If you aren't one of the people trumpeting the ridiculousness you are probably not who I am talking about.

Billnew however, is who I am speaking, about and he is an example of a wider problem.

 

[CryOfALion]

I'm not sure why you are lecturing me on this point.

I was pointing out how many are quick to shift blame based upon their political grudges.

I wasn't lecturing any of you; I actually agree.

The "you/your" in my post are generalized to anyone, not to the people I quoted.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I'm not sure why you are lecturing me on this point. I was pointing out how many are quick to shift blame based upon their political grudges.

Mine has nothing to do with politics. I don't even know what party the mayor is at this point.

And my "blame" posts have generally been in response to those who are blaming cops. Ultimately the guy who killed the cops is to blame.

 

[variant]

I wasn't lecturing any of you; I actually agree.

The "you/your" in my post are generalized to anyone, not to the people I quoted.

Ok.

 

[variant]

Mine has nothing to do with politics. I don't even know what party the mayor is at this point.

OK but I was criticizing Billnew there.

I have consistently criticized you for your ideas.

And my "blame" posts have generally been in response to those who are blaming cops. Ultimately the guy who killed the cops is to blame.

That doesn't seem consistent with what you have been saying, you seem to be laying a lot of blame/responsibility on many others.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

OK but I was criticizing Billnew there.

I have consistently criticized you for your ideas.

At least you're consistent.

That doesn't seem consistent with what you have been saying, you seem to be laying a lot of blame/responsibility on many others.

There's a reason why someone can be arrested for inciting a riot. There are words that are powerful. Powerful enough to drive a man over the edge. This guy was already in a heap of trouble having been accused of killing his girlfriend. So hearing the whole "we want dead cops NOW" wouldn't have been helpful. And that's the gist of the anti-cop movement right now. I know you don't use twitter, but A LOT of people do. And the stuff out there...it's sickening.

I'd like to think that everyone who posted in this thread assumes that the blame first and foremost goes to the man who killed the cops. It's the impetus of the action that we're talking about secondarily.

 

[Vylo]

And that comment is why the NYPD turned their backs on him. They view his comments as throwing them all under the bus.

I guess the truth hurts sometimes. Maybe if they spoke up when their fellow cops cross the line they wouldn't hear comments like this.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I guess the truth hurts sometimes. Maybe if they spoke up when their fellow cops cross the line they wouldn't hear comments like this.

How do you know they didn't?

 

[CryOfALion]

I guess the truth hurts sometimes. Maybe if they spoke up when their fellow cops cross the line they wouldn't hear comments like this.

This.

How do you know they didn't?

"Good boys and girls" become pariahs in the department, because it makes the majority of cops who participate in suspect activity anxious and nervous. They want the range to, for example, raid people's homes with fake warrants, skim a bit off of drug busts and monies, and in general act however they want to act with no regard for law.

The ones that stand up and say something - those very few - are usually bullied (yes, grown men bullying each other) to silence, or in extreme cases out of the department all together. "Snitching" is fine against civilians, unless it is on you blue Bros and Sis.

Sometimes, if your partner really hates you, you can be led into traps and dangerous situations to fend for yourself. It is serious. And, there aren't enough people who speak up in the force because of the fear of Blue Retribution/Retaliation.

 

[HorsieJuice]

I'm hoping it's ketamine lol...

haha, no, it's even less risque than that (though I just googled it now and didn't realize that it's an actual euphemism for ketamine). It came from an off-handed comment I once heard in a Twitch stream about something in a video game. I'm probably the only person that even remembered it for more than 30 seconds.

 

[CryOfALion]

haha, no, it's even less risque than that (though I just googled it now and didn't realize that it's an actual euphemism for ketamine). It came from an off-handed comment I once heard in a Twitch stream about something in a video game. I'm probably the only person that even remembered it for more than 30 seconds.

Lol...

I cant...

 

[HorsieJuice]

And that comment is why the NYPD turned their backs on him. They view his comments as throwing them all under the bus.

Cops who are that shallow and unwilling to realize that there may be a problem within their organization ARE part of the problem.

How do you know they didn't?

Only the most selfish, self-absorbed, and self-unaware among the police would view what he said as throwing all cops under the bus. Anybody with an ounce of self-reflection would be able to accept and take to heart what he said.

How many people have you known have been that hostile to criticism and also been good at self-correction and self-policing? I don't think I've ever known any.

 

[brewmama]

So, why don't you underline what he said that you find to be a call to violence?

Perhaps you can also outline why you think the Police deserve the mayors unrelenting full throated support.

What does a "call to violence" have to do with anything? I was showing why the police are angry with him.

Because they are his police dept. They feel betrayed.

 

[brewmama]

Would you agree that every since the Zimmerman case, these type of incidences, "fueled by all sides" have been getting worst. We've seen a number of stand your ground defenses being used. We've seen a CHP beat a black woman on the side of the HWY for no good reason. And many more.

Something has to be done or figured out in order to defuse this time bomb.

Yes. What would you suggest?

 

[Vylo]

Yes. What would you suggest?

A good first step would be the police and towns who administer them admitting they have a problem.

 

[CryOfALion]

A good first step would be the police and towns who administer them admitting they have a problem.

What are the other 11 steps?

 

[variant]

What does a "call to violence" have to do with anything? I was showing why the police are angry with him.

Because they are his police dept. They feel betrayed.

Given that people here and within the police department are stating quite frankly that he is either to blame or "has blood on his hands" then the issue isn't whether they are "mad" at him but are lashing out at him and laying blame on him in a very inappropriate manner.

Nothing the Mayor said is out of line. They are just lashing out at him because he hasn't given them a complete pass on the Eric Gardner issue or completely condemned the protests.

 

[variant]

It has to do with how we experience one another.

It's difficult when people aren't. You've spent most of this thread spreading blame around to people who aren't the murderer. I don't recall if you mentioned him at all up until this point.

After review I guess you imply in post 54 that you blame the criminals themselves so apologies.

Still, it would be helpful for you to not claim you only wish to blame people who are advocating violence and at the same time blame people who did not advocate anything of the sort.

There's a reason why someone can be arrested for inciting a riot. There are words that are powerful. Powerful enough to drive a man over the edge. This guy was already in a heap of trouble having been accused of killing his girlfriend. So hearing the whole "we want dead cops NOW" wouldn't have been helpful. And that's the gist of the anti-cop movement right now. I know you don't use twitter, but A LOT of people do. And the stuff out there...it's sickening.

Then show the people you are criticizing were inciting riots and I will agree. We agree that people calling for violence are wrong. What you seem to be proposing is that people who instead of calling for violence call for peaceful protest or people or who criticize the Police are wrong.

You seem to take any criticism of the police, or how their methods might effect community response, or any discussion of the shortfalls of their policies as a call to violence which I am simply not going to agree with.

I don't think most people are proponents of violence so it is off base to criticize people as such when they haven't called for violence.

The Mayor or Bedford or Me or any of the other posters or protesters don't owe anyone our opinions, and to think the police may be part of the problem we are seeing is not tantamount to inciting riots.

To say so openly is using dead police to try to discredit opposing viewpoints and I find it wrong.

I'd like to think that everyone who posted in this thread assumes that the blame first and foremost goes to the man who killed the cops. It's the impetus of the action that we're talking about secondarily.

When you start giving people the benefit of the doubt, so will I extend that courtesy to you. You outright accused Bedford of being a proponent of violence just a bit earlier for instance. Where is the benefit of the doubt for us?