Two NYPD executed

[brewmama]

(yeah I looked it up myself after people didn't respond)

I knew no one accusing him was going to quote him because it would expose their naked politicization of the event.

Deafening silence really.

I've also got the related call for non violence from the Mayor:

In an interview before he met with protesters:



Mayor: Protest organizers 'must denounce' anti-police violence | Capital New York

Rep. Peter King Lies, Says DeBlasio Never Denounced Calls For Violence Against Police | Crooks and Liars

But, it's hard to use the deaths of police officer as a bunt instrument to beat political gain out of your opponents, when your opposition never attempted to legitimize violence.

Calls for violence or nonviolence have nothing to do with it, nor does Peter King.

"We are dealing with centuries of racism that have brought us to this day. That is how profound the crisis is."

He added, "One chapter has closed with the decision of this grand jury. There are more chapters to come."

The mayor said that he had just received a phone call from outgoing U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and Holder’s designated replacement, Loretta Lynch."

"They made clear that the investigation initiated by the U.S. attorney would now move forward," he said, referring to an inquiry into whether Garner’s civil rights were violated.

Police Unions, Others Blast Mayor After Shooting Deaths Of 2 NYPD Cops « CBS New York


"Following the Garner decision, de Blasio said he and his wife, Chirlane, have had to have painful conversations with their teenage son, Dante, about “how to take special care with any encounter he may have with police officers.”
“I’ve had to worry over the years, Chirlane has had to worry: Is Dante safe each night?” de Blasio said earlier this month after the grand jury’s decision. “And not just from some of the painful realities of crime and violence in some of our neighborhoods but safe from the very people they want to have faith in as their protectors.”
Lynch slammed the mayor’s comments, saying “our city is safe because of police officers,” adding de Blasio was “throwing them under the bus.”
Just days ago, Lynch suggested police officers sign a petition that demanded the mayor not attend their funerals should they die on the job."
De Blasio talks of biracial son after Eric Garner grand jury - NY Daily News

That actually was a response. Also, one of those histrionic voices was the president of the detectives union, Michael Palladino of the Detectives’ Endowment Association, who had also criticized de Blasio for saying that the two lieutenants in the Brooklyn Bridge protest had “allegedly” been attacked.

On Monday, Palladino spoke further, in an interview with PIX11 News. “Supporting the police at this time is critical,” he said. “It’s a very critical time, fragile, I would say. It’s time to start leading and governing and let’s leave the campaigning behind.”

Late Monday afternoon, PBA President Pat Lynch also rejoined the fray, with a statement that said in part, “It is very clear to me that the Mayor has no idea of just how angry New York City police officers are at him for his lack of support and for laying decades of society’s problems undeservedly at their feet.”

Dispute between Mayor De Blasio and NYPD rank and file keeps intensifying | New York's PIX11 / WPIX-TV

This was before the shooting

 

[HorsieJuice]

But I sure have seen MANY people take the "police officers are pigs and deserve to die" stance here. Reference Protocol's post(s). I see you grant him one or two sentences of lecture, while giving me paragraph upon paragraph of why I'm wrong.

No, you haven't seen "many" people here take that stance, you've seen 1 or 2 people take that stance, with protocol being the only one who's really vocal about it.

But as seems to be a regular thing with you in these discussions on police abuse and race relations, your perception of the opposition is distorted to the point of being little more than a caricature and seems to be influenced more by your familiarity with the LE community than by any desire to really understand the issues.

No, the protests are not all about racism.

No, the protesters are not being dominated or drowned out by those calling for police deaths.

And no, "many" people here are not calling for cops to be killed. And I say that as someone who's probably a lot more sympathetic to the violently-revolt-against-the-cops mindset than most people here.

Nor did I say they did. But they made statements that "excused" the violence.

Until Bedford actually says "it was wrong to kill the officers NO MATTER WHAT", I think Bedford is part of the problem. Not "well, I get why he did it blah blah blah..."

From the woman who said, "I don't believe police shoot unnecessarily" and then proceeded to make excuses for the extraordinarily poor judgment shown by officers who blindly fired into a vehicle when no threat had posed itself and without properly identifying their target.

By your own standards, you're part of the problem of police abuse and irresponsibility.

 

[variant]

MELODRAMATICS! Get ahold of yourself and calm down.

I said statements like yours can lead to more deaths - and that was because you were saying that cops' actions would lead to more deaths.

Yes, how dare I call you out for doing exactly what I said you did. Blaming people who in no way shape or form called for any violence.

I blame the mayor because he has taken a weak position. He absolutely needs to be supporting the police here right now.

OK, so for clarity are you are are you not blaming people who didn't call for any violence?

I can't be more clear than this: I am NOT blaming those who have rightfully and legally protested. I have NOT blamed those who have legitimate grievances with the police. I have maintained blame on those who are calling for the death of police.

Now the Mayor is responsible because his response was "weak" so you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

And I'm sorry I didn't respond to your question about what he said earlier - it certainly wasn't because I was scared of it exposing anything. You need to quit making assumptions like that.

I was dealing with my kids having stomach flu for most of the weekend and my time here was SEVERELY limited.

Is that okay with you?

You've responded to me since then. You didn't post any quotes from the mayor because he didn't say anything inflammatory.

Nor did I say they did. But they made statements that "excused" the violence.

Until Bedford actually says "it was wrong to kill the officers NO MATTER WHAT", I think Bedford is part of the problem. Not "well, I get why he did it blah blah blah..."

Regardless Bedford didn't call for any violence and yet here you are blaming him for it.

 

[seven2014]

You can want to see better police practices, and want police to be held to better standards, without wanting to see police shot.

This is the result of irrational thinking also. Even the family don't like or condone this type of behavior. It's sad that other men have to pay for the bad actions of other cops, and the capricious court system.

But lets be honest, a man was killed for no reason, using a hold that was banned some time ago. He repeatedly told them he couldn't breath, so he died, and the courts found no fault of the police.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

No, you haven't seen "many" people here take that stance, you've seen 1 or 2 people take that stance, with protocol being the only one who's really vocal about it.

I didn't mean "here" as in just here, but hey, just one is enough as far as I'm concerned.

But as seems to be a regular thing with you in these discussions on police abuse and race relations, your perception of the opposition is distorted to the point of being little more than a caricature and seems to be influenced more by your familiarity with the LE community than by any desire to really understand the issues.

My perception of the opposition is shaped by how they act. Plain and simple. If they act like fools, I will call them fools.

No, the protests are not all about racism.

Really? Maybe tell the media that.

No, the protesters are not being dominated or drowned out by those calling for police deaths.

Yes, they are.

And no, "many" people here are not calling for cops to be killed. And I say that as someone who's probably a lot more sympathetic to the violently-revolt-against-the-cops mindset than most people here.

Being sympathetic to cop killers is basically the same thing. You just outed yourself. I'll put your name next to protocol.

From the woman who said, "I don't believe police shoot unnecessarily" and then proceeded to make excuses for the extraordinarily poor judgment shown by officers who blindly fired into a vehicle when no threat had posed itself and without properly identifying their target.

Context. CONTEXT!

Ya know, you have the gift of 20/20 hindsight in EVERY SINGLE one of these cases.

The cops who are doing their job at the time only have the facts as they are presented AT THAT TIME.

As I said in that thread, quit pretending like you were there at these events and you know what was going on.

By your own standards, you're part of the problem of police abuse and irresponsibility.

Not by my standards. How many times do I have to say that I believe that cops should be held accountable when they do something wrong?

Where we disagree, though, is when they are doing something wrong. You give off them impression that cops shouldn't do their job at all lest someone get hurt or killed. Never mind that that sort of attitude is what gets MORE people killed.

 

[seven2014]

"We are dealing with centuries of racism that have brought us to this day. That is how profound the crisis is."

He added, "One chapter has closed with the decision of this grand jury. There are more chapters to come."

The mayor said that he had just received a phone call from outgoing U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and Holder’s designated replacement, Loretta Lynch."

"They made clear that the investigation initiated by the U.S. attorney would now move forward," he said, referring to an inquiry into whether Garner’s civil rights were violated.

Would you agree that every since the Zimmerman case, these type of incidences, "fueled by all sides" have been getting worst. We've seen a number of stand your ground defenses being used. We've seen a CHP beat a black woman on the side of the HWY for no good reason. And many more.

Something has to be done or figured out in order to defuse this time bomb.

 

[Bedford]

I think you might want to quit looking in the mirror when you post to me. I've always maintained that police officers who are found to be doing things wrong should be held accountable. I believe that the police officer who killed Eric Garner should've been indicted. I do not know why the grand jury did not.

Tell me the guy was wrong to kill the cop period and I won't blame you anymore. But don't walk around saying that other cops' actions contributed to this. Don't blame other cops for this guy's stupidity.

As long as you do this, you are a BIG part of the problem.

reread my initial quote and you see I think these murders were sad, disgusting, AND a tragedy.

Too bad you cannot understand the rest of my post before blaming me for anything.

You misreading what I said IS THE PROBLEM. Please learn to comprehend.

This is a sad and disguising tragedy.

However, with all that has recently happened, who here thought that this crisis would not escalate? The repercussions will be harsh and this will get bad. Can anybody say police state>

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Yes, how dare I call you out for doing exactly what I said you did. Blaming people who in no way shape or form called for any violence.

That actually was a response to Bedford, not you.

OK, so for clarity are you are are you not blaming people who didn't call for any violence?

Clearly.

Now the Mayor is responsible because his response was "weak" so you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I blame the Mayor because by not supporting his officers, he is giving credence to those who want cops dead. He has alluded to these things being the fault of the officers. He talks about racism leading up to this. He speaks about how he worries for his son. All that points to him not supporting his own police force. If the mayor thinks it's their fault, how does that read to people like, say, protocol who think the only good cop is a dead cop?

You've responded to me since then. You didn't post any quotes from the mayor because he didn't say anything inflammatory.

Look at post number 85. See how the formatting is?

I responded to that post the way I did because my ipad lumped it all together. I did not see your question about the mayor in that post when I responded.

I didn't post any quotes because I wasn't focused on that when I responded and I did not respond to anything else until now. As I said, my children had stomach flu. It wasn't because the mayor didn't say anything wrong.

Regardless Bedford didn't call for any violence and yet here you are blaming him for it.

Bedford seems to condone the violence. Even now he can't say "the guy was wrong for killing the cops". Bedford says that the cops died because of other cops' actions. Bedford is basically saying they deserved to die.

How does that read to someone like protocol who thinks the only good cop is a dead cop? What if protocol decided that Bedford is absolutely right and so he decides to "take out two of theirs for one of ours"? Would Bedford be part of the problem at that point in time? Or is Bedford part of the solution?

THAT is why I blame Bedford's (and the Mayor's) STATEMENTS. It is careless to make such statements.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

reread my initial quote and you see I think these murders were sad, disgusting, AND a tragedy.

Too bad you cannot understand the rest of my post before blaming me for anything.

You misreading what I said IS THE PROBLEM. Please learn to comprehend.

I didn't misread you at all.

"It's a tragedy, but what do you expect when there's police brutality" is basically your argument there. "The repercussions will be harsh and this will get bad" - Because two dead cops isn't already bad?

 

[Bedford]

Bedford seems to condone the violence.

wrong

 

[HorsieJuice]

No, the protests are not all about racism.

Really? Maybe tell the media that.

Whoops - that should have said, "no, the protests are not all about slavery."

They are most definitely about racism.

Yes, they are.

Again, in your skewed perception that's singling out the worst and most easily-dismissed elements. Very few people are actually calling for that.

Being sympathetic to cop killers is basically the same thing. You just outed yourself. I'll put your name next to protocol.

Context. CONTEXT!

Lol, really? Do you not see the hypocrisy of your own words? You call out Bedford for being "part of the problem" while ignoring the context of his posts and instead of actually asking me what my beliefs are, you just assume that I'm totally ok with killing cops.

Ya know, you have the gift of 20/20 hindsight in EVERY SINGLE one of these cases.

No, I am not and your saying that shows that you haven't really tried to understand my perspective.

In every one of the cases I've looked at - whether it's the women in the truck delivering papers, or the cop pointing his gun at protesters, or the guy with the bb gun at walmart, or the kid with the bb gun in the park, or the guy shot in the NYC stairwell, I look at the cases as what procedure should've been regardless of whether the person on the wrong end of the barrel was a good guy or a bad guy.

There was no threat present to the cops who shot up the women in the truck - they shouldn't have had their weapons raised even if they thought it was the right truck.

The cop had no reason to raise his weapon at the protesters, regardles of what he may or may not have "felt" at the time.

The guy in WalMart did not raise his weapon towards the cops or towards any other patrons and the cops didn't give him a chance to disarm himself. They fired nearly without warning.

Tamir Rice was shot without warning and wasn't even holding his bb gun at the time. He absolutely was shot without warning.

The cops who are doing their job at the time only have the facts as they are presented AT THAT TIME.

No, they weren't. Firing upon a vehicle when no threat has presented itself is not acting on the facts they have - it's inventing new "facts" - namely the "fact" that there's a valid target in the vehicle. Even if the subject of the manhunt HAD been in the vehicle, if he'd not pulled a gun on them, they would not have been justified in firing upon him.

They were jumpy and failed to do their due diligence (i.e. their job). They nearly killed two women in the process.

As I said in that thread, quit pretending like you were there at these events and you know what was going on.

We have video of the cop drawing down on the protesters - there was no justification for that.

We don't have video of the women in the truck, but there's no way that the cops in that situation could've positively id'd a threat, because no threat existed.

We have video of the shooting in Wal-Mart, that's how I know the victim wasn't a threat and wasn't given a chance to surrender.

We have video of Tamir Rice being shot; that's how I know he wasn't a threat and wasn't given a chance to surrender.

We don't have video of the stairwell incident, but everyone involved has acknowledged that there was no immediate threat and that the shooting was an accident. If there is no threat present, you shouldn't have your gun drawn.

Not by my standards. How many times do I have to say that I believe that cops should be held accountable when they do something wrong?

Your standard for Bedford's being "part of the problem" is his acknowledging that blowback ought to be expected when an institution regularly abuses its people.

Your standard for me is that my expressing some vague sort of revolutionary sympathies is equivalent to being ok with killing cops.

Your standard for Mayor DiBlasio is that showing sympathy for the victims of police abuse and admitting that there's a problem with the NYPD is enough to empower the anti-cop movement.

Yet somehow your sympathy for jumpy cops who fail to do their jobs and injure/kill innocent civilians does not automatically make you part of the problem.

Where we disagree, though, is when they are doing something wrong.

Indeed. You seem to think that being sloppy and reckless is ok.

You give off them impression that cops shouldn't do their job at all lest someone get hurt or killed.

Again, you mischaracterize the opposition so it's easy to dismiss.

No, I've never said that they shouldn't do their jobs at all. I've said that they should be held to a higher standard. The military can't fire on a target without positively identifying it (even when they're taking fire from <somewhere>) - they can't even raise their weapons without certain conditions being met, but yet it's apparently ok for the police to do so.

Never mind that that sort of attitude is what gets MORE people killed.

No, I really don't think it is. The military adopted these policies to reduce civilian casualties and to reduce the hostility that was being engendered among the populace when they saw what amounted to a heavily-armed occupying force rolling through their neighborhoods. The military realized that making nice with the locals and taking steps to reduce hostilities was ultimately a more effective strategy than just shooting first and asking questions later.

But somehow fewer people get killed when cops are sloppy and undisciplined in their use of firepower.

 

[variant]

Clearly.

Except for the people you are blaming that didn't call for any violence...

I blame the Mayor because by not supporting his officers, he is giving credence to those who want cops dead. He has alluded to these things being the fault of the officers. He talks about racism leading up to this. He speaks about how he worries for his son. All that points to him not supporting his own police force. If the mayor thinks it's their fault, how does that read to people like, say, protocol who think the only good cop is a dead cop?

Right, disagreeing with you, or the police is akin to supporting violence.

I get your REAL argument, you just won't admit to it.

Look at post number 85. See how the formatting is?

I responded to that post the way I did because my ipad lumped it all together. I did not see your question about the mayor in that post when I responded.

If the formatting was off for me I wouldn't have posted it.

The fact is that talking about racism or discussing police practices in a frank manner does not make the Mayor to blame for violence he clearly didn't call for or condone.

If the mayor finds the protesters sympathetic that is his right and to blame people for violence for mere disagreement with you because you think the police are OWED the allegiance of public officials no matter what, well I'm not going to tell you where to shove that opinion, it's against forum rules.

Part of the problem with protesting police actions or policies is that the power in government isn't free to criticize their own police force without severe political blow-back from both the police and people like you.

It is a bias that will ensure nothing will ever change about police practices unless the police want it to.

The problem here is that the people of New York elected a Mayor who ran on a platform of criticizing police practices.

I didn't post any quotes because I wasn't focused on that when I responded and I did not respond to anything else until now. As I said, my children had stomach flu. It wasn't because the mayor didn't say anything wrong.

Then post the comments you think make the mayor responsible for this mans violence.

Bedford seems to condone the violence. Even now he can't say "the guy was wrong for killing the cops". Bedford says that the cops died because of other cops' actions. Bedford is basically saying they deserved to die.

How does that read to someone like protocol who thinks the only good cop is a dead cop? What if protocol decided that Bedford is absolutely right and so he decides to "take out two of theirs for one of ours"? Would Bedford be part of the problem at that point in time? Or is Bedford part of the solution?

That is simply you taking liberties with what he actually said.

The discussion would be much smoother if you would limit yourself to what others actually say and not what you imagine they mean.

Or, you could, you know, not blame people who haven't called for violence for violence even while protesting that you have not.

THAT is why I blame Bedford's (and the Mayor's) STATEMENTS. It is careless to make such statements.

And you are being disingenuous. Neither called for violence. You clearly mean to blame people who did not call for any violence.

 

[CryOfALion]

What exactly is "HorsieJuice"?

Do I want to know?

 

[variant]

Calls for violence or nonviolence have nothing to do with it, nor does Peter King.

"We are dealing with centuries of racism that have brought us to this day. That is how profound the crisis is."

He added, "One chapter has closed with the decision of this grand jury. There are more chapters to come."

The mayor said that he had just received a phone call from outgoing U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and Holder&#8217;s designated replacement, Loretta Lynch."

"They made clear that the investigation initiated by the U.S. attorney would now move forward," he said, referring to an inquiry into whether Garner&#8217;s civil rights were violated.

Police Unions, Others Blast Mayor After Shooting Deaths Of 2 NYPD Cops « CBS New York


"Following the Garner decision, de Blasio said he and his wife, Chirlane, have had to have painful conversations with their teenage son, Dante, about &#8220;how to take special care with any encounter he may have with police officers.&#8221;
&#8220;I&#8217;ve had to worry over the years, Chirlane has had to worry: Is Dante safe each night?&#8221; de Blasio said earlier this month after the grand jury&#8217;s decision. &#8220;And not just from some of the painful realities of crime and violence in some of our neighborhoods but safe from the very people they want to have faith in as their protectors.&#8221;
Lynch slammed the mayor&#8217;s comments, saying &#8220;our city is safe because of police officers,&#8221; adding de Blasio was &#8220;throwing them under the bus.&#8221;
Just days ago, Lynch suggested police officers sign a petition that demanded the mayor not attend their funerals should they die on the job."
De Blasio talks of biracial son after Eric Garner grand jury - NY Daily News

That actually was a response. Also, one of those histrionic voices was the president of the detectives union, Michael Palladino of the Detectives&#8217; Endowment Association, who had also criticized de Blasio for saying that the two lieutenants in the Brooklyn Bridge protest had &#8220;allegedly&#8221; been attacked.

On Monday, Palladino spoke further, in an interview with PIX11 News. &#8220;Supporting the police at this time is critical,&#8221; he said. &#8220;It&#8217;s a very critical time, fragile, I would say. It&#8217;s time to start leading and governing and let&#8217;s leave the campaigning behind.&#8221;

Late Monday afternoon, PBA President Pat Lynch also rejoined the fray, with a statement that said in part, &#8220;It is very clear to me that the Mayor has no idea of just how angry New York City police officers are at him for his lack of support and for laying decades of society&#8217;s problems undeservedly at their feet.&#8221;

Dispute between Mayor De Blasio and NYPD rank and file keeps intensifying | New York's PIX11 / WPIX-TV

This was before the shooting

So, why don't you underline what he said that you find to be a call to violence?

Perhaps you can also outline why you think the Police deserve the mayors unrelenting full throated support.

 

[HorsieJuice]

What exactly is "HorsieJuice"?

Do I want to know?

haha, it's way less dirty than it sounds, which is why it's perfect.

 

[Billnew]

You can peacefully protest, you can ask politicians to improve the police,
but when you chant to kill cops, people are listening.

Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu, Which of these were killed by Racism?
Only two. KIlled in the name of Racism. An I assume a hispanic and an Oriental heritage by their names. But that didn't matter. They were killed because of the false claims of racism by the police.
Martin, Brown and Garner; no charges of racism was ever considered.
Just because a non-African American shoots an AA, doesn't automatically mean racism.
But when people decide how an event occured based on the color of the skin of witnesses, that is racism. If you decide that a grand jury was wrong, based on the color of their skin, not on evidence, you are racist.
You can't accuse racism in the media and not correct yourself when it is proven to be untruthful, as a leader, you can't side with violent protestors and proclaim they will have justice, without knowing the facts. You can't stand by silently while people in a protest call for "dead cops".

The blood is on the hands of the national media, race baiters, our leadership-Holder and Obama, and all the violent protestors and people calling for the killing of cops.

When there is no evidence to support racism our media played out racism to sell the news and keep the ratings, Black leaders danced in the spotlight to get contributions, our government leaders played politics to help their poll numbers.
Two people are dead from the race game.
Two cold blooded murders to make up for at worst negligent homicide (choke hold), the other two were ruled justifiable homicide.

 

[variant]

The blood is on the hands of the national media, race baiters, our leadership-Holder and Obama, and all the violent protestors and people calling for the killing of cops.

Ah the twisting narrative of political "conservatism".

Guns don't kill people, neither do murderers that shoot them, rather Obama, Eric holder and the national media do.

Or, perhaps "talk to us first and we'll tell you who is responsible for bad things (oh right it's always liberals)".

 

[Bedford]

Ah the twisting narrative of political "conservatism".

Guns don't kill people, neither do murderers that shoot them, rather Obama, Eric holder and the national media do.

Or, perhaps "talk to us first and we'll tell you who is responsible for bad things (oh right it's always liberals)".

You've summed up the conservative argument quite well.

 

[wing2000]

The blood is on the hands of the national media, race baiters, our leadership-Holder and Obama, and all the violent protestors and people calling for the killing of cops.

The blood is on the hands of one, unstable individual.

What We Know About Ismaaiyl Brinsley -- NYMag

 

[CryOfALion]

haha, it's way less dirty than it sounds, which is why it's perfect.

I'm hoping it's ketamine lol...