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Two Goats

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Leviticus 6:26,30 The priest that offers it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place …
I think the biggest difference is that the third goat is for sin offering, where as the goat offered for atonement is different. Different time, different reason, different purpose and not for the same prophetic event.

It was at a time when the Levite priestly ministry had barely begun and those entrusted with it seriously failed to do as God requires. First there was the wrong censers incense which was not as the Lord had commanded and it offered in fire before the Lord. Notice that it is not said the Lord commanded that they should not do what they did, but He had not commanded them to do it. This is most serious where worship of the Lord is concerned. Only what He has indicated is acceptable to Him. If we add any humanly conceived notions to this, God will consider it "strange fire". In some areas of life we may have no explicit directions from the Lord, and where this is true we must not dare to lay down our own regulations, but it is wise always to seek the Lord's guidance in the scriptures, for this is the one safe preservative for us.

God's displeasure with Nadab and Abihu was immediately and strongly expressed in His sending out fire to consume them. He had before sent fire to consume the burnt offering.
Leviticus 9:24 Fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed the burnt offering and the fat portions on the altar. And when all the people saw it, they shouted for joy and fell facedown.
, It was evidence of His acceptance of it; but this fire did not consume the offering, but the offerers, indicating God's refusal of their offering. I believe that though He may not bring the same swift judgment today, any man-devised pretensions of worship are just as abominable to Him as this strange fire of Nadab and Abihu.

Moses discerned just what was involved in this, and told Aaron that God was indicating He must be regarded as holy, that is, as set apart from all that is merely men's conception, and glorified above and before all the people. This was especially important with regard to any worship of Himself. Aaron at the time was wise enough to say nothing.

The cousins of Nadab and Abihu were called upon to carry the bodies of the offenders outside the camp to bury them. Moses instructed Aaron and his two remaining sons not to even uncover their heads and not to tear their clothes, which is a sign of mourning. It was not consistent with priestly character to show signs of mourning, for the priest is one who draws near to God, in whose presence mourning has no place. A priest was never to tear his garments, though Caiaphas did this when interrogating Yeshua.
Matthew 26:65Then the chief priest rent his garments, saying, -- 'He hath spoken evil; what need have we yet of witnesses? lo, now ye heard his evil speaking

"that if anyone dies for whom an high priest is obliged to rend his garments, he must rend below, at the extreme part of his garment, near his feet; and as for what is written, nor rend his clothes; the meaning is, he shall not rend as other men do, above, over against the breast, near the shoulder, as the rest of the people.
A priest might not go into the sanctuary, nor perform any part of service with his clothes rent. The judgment/ law is that those who rend their garment, and of those that uncover the head, is one and the same thing
Leviticus 10:6, lo! if he is in service, and rends his garments, he is guilty of death by the hands of heaven, though his service is right, and not profaned.

And indeed no man, whether a priest or an Israelite, might go into the temple with his clothes rent; and a priest might not rend his sacerdotal garments, on any account; yet such were not these that Caiaphas now had on; but in case of hearing blasphemy, everyone, be he what he would, was obliged to rend his garments.

Whosoever hears the cursing of the name (of God) is obliged to rend, even at the cursing of the surnames he is obliged to rend; and he that hears it from an Israelite, both he that hears, and he that hears from the mouth of him that hears, he is obliged to rend; but he that hears from the mouth of a Gentile, is not obliged to rend; and Eliakim and Shebna would not have rent, but because Rabshakeh was an apostate.

So when witnesses expressed the blasphemy of such they testified against, the judges were obliged to rise up and rend their garments following the rule.
"a blasphemer is not guilty, unless he expresses the name (of God); says R. Joshua ben Korcha, all the day the witnesses are examined by the surnames; but when the cause is finished, they do not put to death because of the surnames, but they bring every man out, and ask the chief among them, and say to him, say expressly what thou hast heard, and he says it: then the judges stand upon their feet, "and rend their garments", and do not sow them up again; and then the second and the third say, I have heard the same as he.

From all which it appears, that Caiaphas did what was the custom of the nation to do in such a case. The observation, that some learned men have made, that the high priest's rending his garments, was, though without his intention, an emblem and presage, of the rending of the priesthood from him, and his brethren, and the entire change of it; as the abolition of the whole ceremonial law, was signified by the rending of the vail of the temple in twain; and as the removing of the kingdom from Saul, was represented by Samuel's rending his mantle; and the revolt of the ten tribes to Jeroboam, by Abijah's rending his garment into twelve pieces, and giving ten to him; would have had a much better foundation to be built on, were these clothes that Caiaphas rent, his priestly ones: but such they were not; for both the high priest, and the other priests, only wore their sacerdotal garments in the temple; nor was it lawful for them to go out in them elsewhere and on and on are examples of changes because of the unfitness for duty to our Lord.
it is forbidden to go out into the province; city, or country, in the garments of the priesthood; but in the sanctuary, whether in the time of service, or not in the time of service, it was lawful.

In the temple, there were chests on purpose for the garments of the priests (r); from whence they took them, and where they laid them up when they had performed their service: of these there were ninety six in number; for as there were twenty four courses, there were four chests for every course; in which the garments were put by themselves, the breeches by themselves, the girdles by themselves, the bonnets by themselves, and the coats by themselves; sealed up with an inscription on them, showing what was in them: and when the men that belonged to such a course, came to perform their service in turn, they opened these chests, and clothed themselves: and when they went out of their service, they put them up in them again, and sealed them; and as for
continued...
Matthew 26:64 Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." 65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy; 66 what do you think?" They answered, "He deserves death!"
A trespass for which the law demanded the death penalty. For above all, the High Priest is to be representing our Messiah Yeshua who is performing services on our behalf in the heavenly sanctuary. Will His garments of priestly dignity every be torn? Absolutely not! For this would indicate some failure or fault in His priestly work. Thank God this is impossible. He remains faithful and true forever!

The rest of Israel could mourn for Nadab and Abihu, but the priests were told to remain in the tabernacle at this time because the anointing oil of the Lord was upon them. The oil is typical of the Holy Spirit whose power is such as to lift the soul above every circumstance of sorrow. Thus we may learn today that in the Lord's presence (the holy place), where the Spirit of God pervades the atmosphere, we may rise above the sorrows of earth, in holy confidence and peace.
 
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I think the biggest difference is that the third goat is for sin offering, where as the goat offered for atonement is different. Different time, different reason, different purpose and not for the same prophetic event.

The two goats from Leviticus 16 are likewise for a sin offering:

Leviticus 16:1-5
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered before the Lord, and died;
2. And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
3. Thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.
4. He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.
5. And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.


And they are supplied by the congregation . . . :)
 
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visionary

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Lev 10:16 But Moses searched carefully for the goat of the sin offering, and behold, it had been burned up! So he was angry with Aaron’s surviving sons Eleazar and Ithamar, saying, 17 “Why did you not eat the sin offering at the holy place? For it is most holy, and He gave it to you to bear away the guilt of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the LORD. 18 “Behold, since its blood had not been brought inside, into the sanctuary, you should certainly have eaten it in the sanctuary, just as I commanded.” 19 But Aaron spoke to Moses, “Behold, this very day they presented their sin offering and their burnt offering before the LORD. When things like these happened to me, if I had eaten a sin offering today, would it have been good in the sight of the LORD?” 20 When Moses heard that, it seemed good in his sight.
Second quote... Second piece of trouble in the early stages of Levite ministry. I find it interesting that Moses diligently sought the goat like it was important to him to partake of it. The flesh of the goat of the sin offering which was offered by the nation on the eighth day. Eighth day being significant.

Let's go back and take a look at the events that lead up to this "Ooooops". Being overwhelmed with grief at the loss of their brothers, Eleazar and Ithamar probably could not eat in their grief. It is a rule that none but priests were allowed to partake of the flesh of the sin offering. These two characters burnt it on the altar, like we may burn our steaks on the grill, through neglect because our hearts are elsewhere. They could have also thought that since the flesh of Aaron’s sin offering was also burnt without the camp. IT was ok.
Leviticus 9:10 The fat and the kidneys and the lobe of the liver of the sin offering, he then offered up in smoke on the altar just as the LORD had commanded Moses. 11 The flesh and the skin, however, he burned with fire outside the camp.
I don't really know what they were thinking of, or what excuses they could have made for what they did. But they did do it and suffered the repercussions for it.
Ex 29:13 "You shall take all the fat that covers the entrails and the lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys and the fat that is on them, and offer them up in smoke on the altar. 14"But the flesh of the bull and its hide and its refuse, you shall burn with fire outside the camp; it is a sin offering. 15"You shall also take the one ram, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on the head of the ram"
These requirements are laid out in detail. Laws for Sin Offerings
Lev 4:10 (just as it is removed from the ox of the sacrifice of peace offerings), and the priest is to offer them up in smoke on the altar of burnt offering. 11 'But the hide of the bull and all its flesh with its head and its legs and its entrails and its refuse, 12 that is, all the rest of the bull, he is to bring out to a clean place outside the camp where the ashes are poured out, and burn it on wood with fire; where the ashes are poured out it shall be burned
 
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visionary

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The two goats from Leviticus 16 are likewise for a sin offering:

Leviticus 16:1-5
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered before the Lord, and died;
2. And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
3. Thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.
4. He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.
5. And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.


And they are supplied by the congregation . . . :)
This is not a Yom Kippur event. The High Priest has already washed his clothes and now is setting the stage to start again the daily sacrifices.

While we are on the subject of sacrifices, I have a question for you.

The Guilt Offering
Lev7:7 The guilt offering is like the sin offering, there is one law for them; the priest who makes atonement with it shall have it. 8 Also the priest who presents any man's burnt offering, that priest shall have for himself the skin of the burnt offering which he has presented. 9 Likewise, every grain offering that is baked in the oven and everything prepared in a pan or on a griddle shall belong to the priest who presents it.
Why is the hide/skin of the guilt offering kept by the priest?
 
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visionary

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....Numbers 29:7-11
7. And ye shall have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein: 8. But ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the Lord for a sweet savour; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year; they shall be unto you without blemish:9. And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil, three tenth deals to a bullock, and two tenth deals to one ram,10. A several tenth deal for one lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
11. One kid of the goats for a sin offering; beside the sin offering of atonement, and the continual burnt offering, and the meat offering of it, and their drink offerings.

If then the third goat of Numbers 29:11 is most holy and to be consumed-eaten:Who and what is represented by the one chosen by lot for the Most High in Leviticus 16? :D
This is your third quote which I will cover. First lets continue in the goat sin offerings found in the rest of the chapter. Excuse my shortening to emphasis what I see.

12‘Then on the fifteenth day of the seventh month you shall have a holy convocation.... 16 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering, its grain offering and its drink offering.

17‘Then on the second day......19 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering, and their drink offerings.

20‘Then on the third day....22 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering and its drink offering.

23‘Then on the fourth day....25 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering, its grain offering and its drink offering.

26‘Then on the fifth day.....28 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering and its drink offering.

29‘Then on the sixth day....31 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering, its grain offering and its drink offerings.

32‘Then on the seventh day.... 34 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering, its grain offering and its drink offering.

35‘On the eighth day you shall have a solemn assembly; you shall do no laborious work.....38 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering and its drink offering.

As you can see, these goat offerings were part of a process but not part of the atonement itself. These were not done by the High Priest in Yom Kippur fine linen.
 
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daq

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This is not a Yom Kippur event. The High Priest has already washed his clothes and now is setting the stage to start again the daily sacrifices.

While we are on the subject of sacrifices, I have a question for you.

The Guilt Offering
Why is the hide/skin of the guilt offering kept by the priest?

I do not understand how you can say that Leviticus 16:1-5 is not a Yom Kippurim event when that is precisely where you get the two goats that you have been discussing in this thread. The two goats over which the lots are cast are the two goats taken from the congregation in the opening passage I quoted. There is no sense going into further questions if this fact is not first understood:

Leviticus 16:1-10 RSV
1. THE LORD spoke to Moses, after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they drew near before the Lord and died;
2. and the Lord said to Moses, "Tell Aaron your brother not to come at all times into the holy place within the veil, before the mercy seat which is upon the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
3. But thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.
4. He shall put on the holy linen coat, and shall have the linen breeches on his body, be girded with the linen girdle, and wear the linen turban; these are the holy garments. He shall bathe his body in water, and then put them on.
5. And he shall take from the congregation of the people of Israel two male goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.
6. "And Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering for himself, and shall make atonement for himself and for his house.
7. Then he shall take the two goats, and set them before the Lord at the door of the tent of meeting;
8. and Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel.
9. And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord, and offer it as a sin offering;
10. but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.


And the two he-goats are supplied by the congregation, (not the priest). Yeshua says: "But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." And again, "Think not that I am come to send peace upon the earth: (and the man is the earth) I came not to send peace, but a machaira-sword", (of spiritual warfare) and in the same place: "Him not taking up his own stake, and following after me, is not worthy of me", and again, "Whosoever does not bear his own stake, and come after me, cannot be my talmid," and with those things, "Him finding his soul shall apollumi-destroy her: and him apollumi-destroying his soul for my sake shall find her." Therefore part yourself asunder, for as you have said you have the sword of the Word to accomplish this, (we can do all things through Messiah who strengthens us through his Spirit Holy Testimony) and when you have divided your own house asunder, (for the man is likewise a house) then render the things of Caesar to Caesar: and the things of God to God. :)
 
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pshun2404

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Where Messiah was fulfillment of the Law, He is both goats...the Azazel though humanly associated with evil is not the symbolic "evil one" he is the victim upon whom our sins are laid who himself was innocent of our sins...for the atonement to take place our sins must first be dealt with...placed on the sinless victim that is then killed by the wilderness of the world when the blood is then sprinkled on out behalf and applied to us the redemption/ransom is complete. These represent the two purposes of the one Messiah...
 
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daq

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Where Messiah was fulfillment of the Law, He is both goats...the Azazel though humanly associated with evil is not the symbolic "evil one" he is the victim upon whom our sins are laid who himself was innocent of our sins...for the atonement to take place our sins must first be dealt with...placed on the sinless victim that is then killed by the wilderness of the world when the blood is then sprinkled on out behalf and applied to us the redemption/ransom is complete. These represent the two purposes of the one Messiah...

Be careful you are not rather eating scapegoat you found out in the desert . . . :D

Luke 11:19-26 KJV
19. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20. But if I with the finger of God [Kohen Gadol] cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.




Enoch 8:1
1. Moreover Azazel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and of all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.


:) :wave:
 
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visionary

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I do not understand how you can say that Leviticus 16:1-5 is not a Yom Kippurim event when that is precisely where you get the two goats that you have been discussing in this thread. The two goats over which the lots are cast are the two goats taken from the congregation in the opening passage I quoted. There is no sense going into further questions if this fact is not first understood:...<snip>.... :)
As shown when I revealed to you that all those days before and following have a "male goat for sin offering". The part that you read as the third goat of that day is not part of the Yom Kippur services specially but rather a service after Yom Kippur is over and the High Priest is finished performing the cleansing of the sanctuary service.
 
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Where Messiah was fulfillment of the Law, He is both goats...the Azazel though humanly associated with evil is not the symbolic "evil one" he is the victim upon whom our sins are laid who himself was innocent of our sins...for the atonement to take place our sins must first be dealt with...placed on the sinless victim that is then killed by the wilderness of the world when the blood is then sprinkled on out behalf and applied to us the redemption/ransom is complete. These represent the two purposes of the one Messiah...
Then you miss out on the prophecy to be fulfilled during the fall feasts. Just as the spring feast had their day of fulfillment so also will Yom Kippur have its day. Our Passover Lamb is not a Yom Kippur scapegoat.
 
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daq

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As shown when I revealed to you that all those days before and following have a "male goat for sin offering". The part that you read as the third goat of that day is not part of the Yom Kippur services specially but rather a service after Yom Kippur is over and the High Priest is finished performing the cleansing of the sanctuary service.


That is actually not what happened Vis . . . :)
You said this in response to my quote as shown below:


The two goats from Leviticus 16 are likewise for a sin offering:

Leviticus 16:1-5
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered before the Lord, and died;
2. And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
3. Thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.
4. He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.
5. And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.


And they are supplied by the congregation . . . :)

This is not a Yom Kippur event. The High Priest has already washed his clothes and now is setting the stage to start again the daily sacrifices.


But you also posted this in another post:


This is your third quote which I will cover. First lets continue in the goat sin offerings found in the rest of the chapter. Excuse my shortening to emphasis what I see.

12‘Then on the fifteenth day of the seventh month you shall have a holy convocation.... 16 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering, its grain offering and its drink offering.

17‘Then on the second day......19 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering, and their drink offerings.

20‘Then on the third day....22 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering and its drink offering.

23‘Then on the fourth day....25 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering, its grain offering and its drink offering.

26‘Then on the fifth day.....28 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering and its drink offering.

29‘Then on the sixth day....31 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering, its grain offering and its drink offerings.

32‘Then on the seventh day.... 34 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering, its grain offering and its drink offering.

35‘On the eighth day you shall have a solemn assembly; you shall do no laborious work.....38 and one male goat for a sin offering, besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering and its drink offering.

As you can see, these goat offerings were part of a process but not part of the atonement itself. These were not done by the High Priest in Yom Kippur fine linen.


In the mean time I responded to your first statement with this:


I do not understand how you can say that Leviticus 16:1-5 is not a Yom Kippurim event when that is precisely where you get the two goats that you have been discussing in this thread. The two goats over which the lots are cast are the two goats taken from the congregation in the opening passage I quoted. There is no sense going into further questions if this fact is not first understood:

Leviticus 16:1-10 RSV
1. THE LORD spoke to Moses, after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they drew near before the Lord and died;
2. and the Lord said to Moses, "Tell Aaron your brother not to come at all times into the holy place within the veil, before the mercy seat which is upon the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
3. But thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.
4. He shall put on the holy linen coat, and shall have the linen breeches on his body, be girded with the linen girdle, and wear the linen turban; these are the holy garments. He shall bathe his body in water, and then put them on.
5. And he shall take from the congregation of the people of Israel two male goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.
6. "And Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering for himself, and shall make atonement for himself and for his house.
7. Then he shall take the two goats, and set them before the Lord at the door of the tent of meeting;
8. and Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel.
9. And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord, and offer it as a sin offering;
10. but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.


And the two he-goats are supplied by the congregation, (not the priest). Yeshua says: "But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." And again, "Think not that I am come to send peace upon the earth: (and the man is the earth) I came not to send peace, but a machaira-sword", (of spiritual warfare) and in the same place: "Him not taking up his own stake, and following after me, is not worthy of me", and again, "Whosoever does not bear his own stake, and come after me, cannot be my talmid," and with those things, "Him finding his soul shall apollumi-destroy her: and him apollumi-destroying his soul for my sake shall find her." Therefore part yourself asunder, for as you have said you have the sword of the Word to accomplish this, (we can do all things through Messiah who strengthens us through his Spirit Holy Testimony) and when you have divided your own house asunder, (for the man is likewise a house) then render the things of Caesar to Caesar: and the things of God to God. :)


However, when you responded with the large portion from Numbers 29 you quoted the offerings from the week of Sukkot. What I quoted from the same passage only concerns Yom Kippurim:


You appear to have left out a third goat Vis, (I have read everything in this thread). Neither of the two goats from Leviticus 16 are to be eaten: obviously the one to/for `Aza'zel is sent away into the wilderness-desert alive but also the one whose blood was brought into the sanctuary to make atonement shall not be eaten, (Leviticus 6:30). There are likewise the twice daily tamiyd-continual offerings and those two lambs also are offered in that day. But besides the twice daily continual and the two goats of Leviticus 16 there is another goat which is to be eaten-consumed by the priests. That sin offering goat is referenced in Leviticus 10 in the same day that Nadab and Abihu offered strange fire and died.

Leviticus 6:30
30. And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

Leviticus 10:16-20
16. And Moses diligently sought the goat of the sin offering, and, behold, it was burnt: and he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the sons of Aaron which were left alive, saying,
17. Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the Lord?
18. Behold, the blood of it was not brought in within the holy place: ye should indeed have eaten it in the holy place, as I commanded.
19. And Aaron said unto Moses, Behold, this day have they offered their sin offering and their burnt offering before the Lord; and such things have befallen me: and if I had eaten the sin offering to day, should it have been accepted in the sight of the Lord?
20. And when Moses heard that, he was content.


If therefore we are to fully understand what has and will take place, (each in his or her own appointed times) we must surely first have all of the information that is available to us. Where then is this third goat found in Torah, (a third goat aside from the twice daily offering)?

Numbers 29:7-11
7. And ye shall have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein:
8. But ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the Lord for a sweet savour; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year; they shall be unto you without blemish:
9. And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil, three tenth deals to a bullock, and two tenth deals to one ram,
10. A several tenth deal for one lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
11. One kid of the goats for a sin offering; beside the sin offering of atonement, and the continual burnt offering, and the meat offering of it, and their drink offerings.

If then the third goat of Numbers 29:11 is most holy and to be consumed-eaten:
Who and what is represented by the one chosen by lot for the Most High in Leviticus 16? :D


Context, context, context, :)

1) 1 Tishri is a Mikra Kodesh - Holy Convocation.
2) 10 Tishri is a Mikra Kodesh - Holy Convocation.
3) 15 Tishri is a Mikra Kodesh - Holy Convocation.

Numbers 29:1-12 KJV
1. And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.
2. And ye shall offer a burnt offering for a sweet savour unto the Lord; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year without blemish:
3. And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil, three tenth deals for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram,
4. And one tenth deal for one lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
5. And one kid of the goats for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you:
6. Beside the burnt offering of the month, and his meat offering, and the daily burnt offering, and his meat offering, and their drink offerings, according unto their manner, for a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the Lord.
7. And ye shall have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein:
8. But ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the Lord for a sweet savour; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year; they shall be unto you without blemish:
9. And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil, three tenth deals to a bullock, and two tenth deals to one ram,
10. A several tenth deal for one lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
11. One kid of the goats for a sin offering; beside the sin offering of atonement, and the continual burnt offering, and the meat offering of it, and their drink offerings.
12. And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days:


Numbers 29:11 is 10 Tishri, Yom Kippurim, and in addition to Leviticus 16.
What you posted from Numbers 29:12 and afterwards concerns the week of Sukkot. :)
 
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rick357

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The two goats from Leviticus 16 are likewise for a sin offering:

Leviticus 16:1-5
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered before the Lord, and died;
2. And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
3. Thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.
4. He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.
5. And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.

And they are supplied by the congregation . . . :)

As the congregation also gave Yeshua up to death...it seems to me the two goats teach us Yeshuas sacrifice toward The Father for us but not unto us both to pay for our sin and to carry it away from us...the third goat is his sacrifice to us that we his priesthood must consume him to share in his alter...not complete I know
 
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daq

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Emphasis mine:

As the congregation also gave Yeshua up to death...it seems to me the two goats teach us Yeshuas sacrifice toward The Father for us but not unto us both to pay for our sin and to carry it away from us...the third goat is his sacrifice to us that we his priesthood must consume him to share in his alter...not complete I know

That's really a stretch there friend. Should we not give from a willing heart, in uprightness, and accordingly as prescribed by our Father?

Exodus 25:1-9 KJV
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2. Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take My offering.
3. And this is the offering which ye shall take of them; gold, and silver, and brass,
4. And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, [`iziym]
5. And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim wood,
6. Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense,
7. Onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate.
8. And let them make me a sanctuary; [miqdash] that I may dwell among them.
9. According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, [Mishkan] and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.


Every man has his own mirror image twin goat mighty one old man. :)
 
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pshun2404

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Be careful you are not rather eating scapegoat you found out in the desert . . . :D

Luke 11:19-26 KJV
19. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20. But if I with the finger of God [Kohen Gadol] cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.




Enoch 8:1
1. Moreover Azazel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and of all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.


:) :wave:

Yes...too bad this fake Enoch was amiss in his use of this name making a faulty association...the aza'zel of Leviticus 16 is not truly a bad thing but a good one...with our sins still applied to ourselves we cannot go before God.
 
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Yes...too bad this fake Enoch was amiss in his use of this name making a faulty association...the aza'zel of Leviticus 16 is not truly a bad thing but a good one...with our sins still applied to ourselves we cannot go before God.

There are Enoch fragments from Dammeseq older than anything in the Apostolic writings and likewise Enoch is referenced in Jude. However, more importantly, you ignored the Testimony of Yeshua which I quoted and there is so much more from the N/C writings that one actually does not even need Enoch to understand those things. :)
 
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However, when you responded with the large portion from Numbers 29 you quoted the offerings from the week of Sukkot. What I quoted from the same passage only concerns Yom Kippurim:

Context, context, context, :)

1) 1 Tishri is a Mikra Kodesh - Holy Convocation.
2) 10 Tishri is a Mikra Kodesh - Holy Convocation.
3) 15 Tishri is a Mikra Kodesh - Holy Convocation.

Numbers 29:1-12 KJV
1. And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.
2. And ye shall offer a burnt offering for a sweet savour unto the Lord; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year without blemish:
3. And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil, three tenth deals for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram,
4. And one tenth deal for one lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
5. And one kid of the goats for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you:
6. Beside the burnt offering of the month, and his meat offering, and the daily burnt offering, and his meat offering, and their drink offerings, according unto their manner, for a sweet savour, a sacrifice made by fire unto the Lord.
7. And ye shall have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein:
8. But ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the Lord for a sweet savour; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year; they shall be unto you without blemish:
9. And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil, three tenth deals to a bullock, and two tenth deals to one ram,
10. A several tenth deal for one lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
11. One kid of the goats for a sin offering; beside the sin offering of atonement, and the continual burnt offering, and the meat offering of it, and their drink offerings.
12. And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days:


Numbers 29:11 is 10 Tishri, Yom Kippurim, and in addition to Leviticus 16.
What you posted from Numbers 29:12 and afterwards concerns the week of Sukkot. :)
Again I tried to clearly show that the goat in question being sacrificed for a sin offering is part of the holy convictions on each of the days assigned. Just because one of them is a sacrifice on the day of Yom Kippur doesn't mean it is part of the Yom Kippur service. Like I keep pointing out, this sin sacrifice is after the High Priest is finished the Yom Kippur services.
 
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pshun2404

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Again I tried to clearly show that the goat in question being sacrificed for a sin offering is part of the holy convictions on each of the days assigned. Just because one of them is a sacrifice on the day of Yom Kippur doesn't mean it is part of the Yom Kippur service. Like I keep pointing out, this sin sacrifice is after the High Priest is finished the Yom Kippur services.

Thats cool...but Enoch is not canonical in the Hebrew scriptures...besides does not la'azazel mean "for removal" so before or after in the ritual sense is not important, the point is that our sins were laid on him...he is cast without the camp to die with our sins (suffer the death they are due in our place)...

Maybe I am incorrect (definitely possible) but this is how I always understood its function
 
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Thats cool...but Enoch is not canonical in the Hebrew scriptures...besides does not la'azazel mean "for removal" so before or after in the ritual sense is not important, the point is that our sins were laid on him...he is cast without the camp to die with our sins (suffer the death they are due in our place)...

Maybe I am incorrect (definitely possible) but this is how I always understood its function
The history of why Enoch is, was, and is not canonical is very interesting. Study to learn what Enoch is all about, why Jude quotes him, and what and why religious political powers made this decision. About 300 the Christian Church began to discredit the book. The Ethiopic Book of Enoch is one of the most important pieces of apocalyptic literature. It furnishes extensive contributions to our knowledge of Jewish understanding before AD. It shows apocalyptic literature in its beginnings, and above all it is a source of information upon the religious ideas of Judaism, especially concerning the Messiah. It also pictures the feelings of the people during the time of the Hasmoneans. PS... Judaism doesn't do "canonical".
 
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Again I tried to clearly show that the goat in question being sacrificed for a sin offering is part of the holy convictions on each of the days assigned. Just because one of them is a sacrifice on the day of Yom Kippur doesn't mean it is part of the Yom Kippur service. Like I keep pointing out, this sin sacrifice is after the High Priest is finished the Yom Kippur services.

Ok, so where is this third goat from Leviticus 10:16-18 which is to be eaten? :)

Leviticus 6:30
30. And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

Leviticus 10:16-18
16. And Moses diligently sought the goat of the sin offering, and, behold, it was burnt: and he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the sons of Aaron which were left alive, saying,
17. Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the Lord?
18. Behold, the blood of it was not brought in within the holy place: ye should indeed have eaten it in the holy place, as I commanded.


This may be why Yom Kippurim was moved to 10 Tishri but that does not negate the fact that the two goats from Leviticus 16 cannot be eaten and, therefore, this is a third goat for a sin offering from Leviticus 10:16-18. The one goat chosen by lot to/for `Aza'zel is sent away into the desert alive while the other two are slain. The one chosen by lot from Leviticus 16, which is slain, and whose blood was brought into the sanctuary for the atonements, that one cannot be eaten.

Leviticus 16:29-31 RSV
29. "And it shall be a statute to you for ever that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict yourselves, and shall do no work, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you;
30. for on this day [the day wherein Nadab and Abihu died, Leviticus 16:1] shall atonement be made for you, to cleanse you; from all your sins you shall be clean before the Lord.
31. It is a sabbath of solemn rest to you, and you shall afflict yourselves; it is a statute for ever.
 
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