Twisted Scripture (False Doctrines)

[Hammster]

I understand that RT has no defense for its claims, so this is all that there is in "rebuttal".

If you really don't know what Jesus meant by "sheep without a shepherd", it's OK to just admit it. No need to keep dodging the question.

He meant they were wandering about aimlessly. But I don't know what that has to do with our discussion.

 

[stan1953]

I'm at a loss.

 

[Hammster]

The obvious point is that when Jesus saw multitudes of people, He described them as sheep without a shepherd. If you want to argue that these entire crowds were believers, please be my guest.

You're the one who claims that ALL sheep are His, and He died for ALL of them.

So, either we have to assume that these multitudes of crowds were all believers, or maybe there's something wrong or missing in your analysis.

He doesn't call them sheep. He says they are like sheep without a shepherd.

 

[Hammster]

Regarding John 10, totally irrelevant.

Tell that to Stan. He brought it up.

 

[stan1953]

He doesn't call them sheep. He says they are link sheep without a shepherd.

so LOST sheep are not sheep?

 

[Hammster]

No, only the one's who have entered by the "door" are saved. Haven't you read John 10 yet?

That's not in Matthew 25.

 

[Hammster]

Please guide me to the verse that indicates the order you have assumed.

That they have heard first, before they enter.

Read the previous 8.

 

[Hammster]

But they were Jews, right? So how can "lost sheep" not be HIS sheep, then? Please explain that one.

You've said that all sheep are saved. And that sheep refer to the "lost sheep" that He came to save.

The lost sheep are His sheep. But they thought all Jews were sheep. Jesus corrected them.

 

[stan1953]

Tell that to Stan. He brought it up.

Please don't blame me for your confusion.

 

[Hammster]

Matthew 10:6
Go instead to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24
So he answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

And why are you saying that those aren't His sheep?

 

[stan1953]

That's not in Matthew 25.

Thanks for making this clear.

John 10 is not in Matthew 25...good to know.

 

[stan1953]

And why are you saying that those aren't His sheep?

Why are you saying they are? IMO lost is pretty self explanatory.

 

[Hammster]

A truly ASTOUNDING statement, given that Jesus actually said this:

John 10:26
“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

Gotcha.

Really? How's that?

If Jesus had described them as goats, or rams, or something else, you would possible have a point.

But since He didn't, neither do you.

He did, elsewhere. That's part of why I've said we should look at all He references to sheep.

 

[FreeGrace2]

He meant they were wandering about aimlessly. But I don't know what that has to do with our discussion.

It is clear that you don't.

Yet, your claim is that Jesus said in Jn 10 that He is the shepherd of all sheep.

Please try to make up your mind as to what Jesus really is. Jesus indicated people were like sheep without a shepherd, yet He said he would die for the sheep.

 

[Hammster]

so LOST sheep are not sheep?

You're question doesn't correlate to what I said.

 

[FreeGrace2]

He doesn't call them sheep. He says they are link sheep without a shepherd.

Nor was Jesus calling anyone a sheep in Hn 10. He was using figurative language in both places.

Or, do you think that Jesus actually died for all sheep in the world? But not the goats???????

 

[Hammster]

Please don't blame me for your confusion.

I'm not confused. You brought up the sheep and the goats. My comments were reflective of that, yet FG thought I was referring to John 10.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's not in Matthew 25.

Good grief! I noted the context I was speaking about:
No, only the one's who have entered by the "door" are saved. Haven't you read John 10 yet?

Why mention Matt 25?

 

[Hammster]

Thanks for making this clear.

John 10 is not in Matthew 25...good to know.

FG seemed confused as to what passage we were discussing. It was for his benefit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
Please guide me to the verse that indicates the order you have assumed.

That they have heard first, before they enter.

Read the previous 8.

Please specify the exact verses to read, as I have no idea which verse you are counting from.