Twisted Scripture (False Doctrines)

[Hammster]

Why are you saying they are? IMO lost is pretty self explanatory.

They are His because He was sent for them. It's right there in the verse you posted.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The lost sheep are His sheep. But they thought all Jews were sheep. Jesus corrected them.

Please provide a verse to back up your claim.

 

[Hammster]

It is clear that you don't.

Yet, your claim is that Jesus said in Jn 10 that He is the shepherd of all sheep.

Please try to make up your mind as to what Jesus really is. Jesus indicated people were like sheep without a shepherd, yet He said he would die for the sheep.

There's a difference between metaphors and similes.

 

[Hammster]

Nor was Jesus calling anyone a sheep in Hn 10. He was using figurative language in both places.

Or, do you think that Jesus actually died for all sheep in the world? But not the goats???????

Actually, He did call people sheep in John 10. There's a difference between metaphors and similes.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Really? How's that?

How's what?

He did, elsewhere. That's part of why I've said we should look at all He references to sheep.

Like to mix & match passages, huh? Kinda like cut & paste.

 

[Hammster]

Good grief! I noted the context I was speaking about:
No, only the one's who have entered by the "door" are saved. Haven't you read John 10 yet?

Why mention Matt 25?

Because you commented on something I said in a convo with Stan concerning Matt 25.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FG seemed confused as to what passage we were discussing. It was for his benefit.

No, you were the confused one. I specifically noted Jn 10, and you brought up Matt 25, for no apparent reason. At least none was given.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There's a difference between metaphors and similes.

That's nice.

 

[Hammster]

I said this:
Please guide me to the verse that indicates the order you have assumed.

That they have heard first, before they enter.

Please specify the exact verses to read, as I have no idea which verse you are counting from.

To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. (John 10:3, 4 NASB)

 

[Hammster]

Please provide a verse to back up your claim.

What, that Jesus used references that His audience was familiar with?

 

[FreeGrace2]

To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. (John 10:3, 4 NASB)

Uh, how did they get into the sheep pen? They entered through the door, which refers to faith in Christ. Of course they hear His voice. They became His when then entered through Him. So of course they hear His voice to be led out.

Quite simple, really.

 

[FreeGrace2]

What, that Jesus used references that His audience was familiar with?

That wasn't your claim. So, apparently you can't. Good to know.

 

[Hammster]

How's what?


Like to mix & match passages, huh? Kinda like cut & paste.

Not mixing and matching. Just looking at it as how one would understand Him. It would be awfully confusing if at one time He said everyone was a sheep, and at another He said some were goats. I'm just asserting that He was consistent.

 

[Hammster]

No, you were the confused one. I specifically noted Jn 10, and you brought up Matt 25, for no apparent reason. At least none was given.

I didn't bring up Matt 25. Stan did. You were quoting me in relation to that discussion.

 

[Hammster]

Uh, how did they get into the sheep pen? They entered through the door, which refers to faith in Christ. Of course they hear His voice. They became His when then entered through Him. So of course they hear His voice to be led out.

Quite simple, really.

To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. (John 10:3, 4 NASB)

The passage doesn't say that. You've put your synergistic spin on it. He calls His sheep and they follow. Nothing about becoming His sheep.

 

[Hammster]

That wasn't your claim. So, apparently you can't. Good to know.

It was my claim. Has been for a few days now.

 

[stan1953]

They are His because He was sent for them. It's right there in the verse you posted.

You just said lost sheep are not sheep...so if He was sent for the lost sheep they are not sheep? Man now you have me confused.

Bottom line, there are sheep that are saved and not saved. No matter how you try to equivocate you can't change the fact of this matter.
I see no reason to belabour the point.

 

[stan1953]

To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. (John 10:3, 4 NASB)
The passage doesn't say that. You've put your synergistic spin on it. He calls His sheep and they follow. Nothing about becoming His sheep.

The passage doesn't say WHAT? I have already addressed the verses in question, for which you twisted to fit your monergistic POV and then lay the same argument on others?
Those who walk through the gate that is Jesus Christ, are saved. Apparently v6 is still a reality for a lot of people today, and even though Jesus gives three more parables or analogies after v6 in this scripture, they still didn't get it, as is the case on this thread.

 

[stan1953]

It was my claim. Has been for a few days now.

Quite honestly I have no idea what you claim as it seems to change from moment to moment. No doubt by design I surmise.

 

[Hammster]

You just said lost sheep are not sheep...so if He was sent for the lost sheep they are not sheep? Man now you have me confused.

Bottom line, there are sheep that are saved and not saved. No matter how you try to equivocate you can't change the fact of this matter.
I see no reason to belabour the point.

I never said lost sheep are not sheep.