Twenty years of two and a half degrees of warming

[Hans Blaster]

How foolish stats lie? The planet has 7 continents & 5 oceans. To get even an average earth temp. would require implementation of gazillions of thermometers in more than 1 place on every land mass or ocean basis, high or low, forest or savannah, desert or glacier, cave or city street to backyard to prairie to volcano. Average temp is just bunk for the globe as it does not mean anything. Of course some of these stations were deliberately placed in open sunlit parking lots on asphalt. That is no way to get a temp. And of course if you go to the vent of a volcano you're going the info you seek. Hello-Mt. Pinatubo 1991. It put out so much ash & gas, that it produced a cold winter. Then all of a sudden everyone began panicking that they thought we were going to be an eternal winter. Well of course if it puts out large particles that are large enough to reflect radiation, yeah it may be a colder but it doesn't mean forever.

This is what weather satellites are for:

Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite - Wikipedia

Not to mention vast networks of surface weather stations, sea surface buoys, and radiosondes.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Gee acc to AOC we only 12 years left. She has people convinced that we're going to see a daily temp of 100 degrees not going to happen.

WHAT?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Don't you see it's all a game by politicians. The democratic party in the US has always despised oil companies. I don't know why--some of this stuff goes into pension checks. Do you see Nancy Pelosi stopping her weekly jets to California. How about Leo & his jet? Do you think Hollywood would stop flying? Of course not. It's a redistribution of wealth game. We have run out of things to tax. Politiicans appetites for money are never satisfied. So they got to make an enemy. In the 70s, Jimmy Carter he hammered the people by pretending that oil was in short supply. The earth is not going to change in 200 years. If you believe that, you should run for AOC's campaign manager.

blah blah blah. This is the science board, not the whiney politics board.

 

[Subduction Zone]

WHAT?

Another appear to a non-expert politician. There is a very attractive young lady from New York City that won an upset victory for the U.S. House of Representatives. She does not understand the science and tends to overreact a bit. Her name is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - Wikipedia

He might have a valid complain if anyone used her as a source but no one has or is foolish enough to use a non-expert politician to support our argument. By the way, she is HOT!

 

[Strathos]

Another appear to a non-expert politician. There is a very attractive young lady from New York City that won an upset victory for the U.S. House of Representatives. She does not understand the science and tends to overreact a bit. Her name is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - Wikipedia

He might have a valid complain if anyone used her as a source but no one has or is foolish enough to use a non-expert politician to support our argument. By the way, she is HOT!

As I understand it she said that we have 12 years in order to reverse the warming trend before it becomes irreversible. Not 12 years before we turn into Venus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I understand it she said that we have 12 years in order to reverse the warming trend before it becomes irreversible. Not 12 years before we turn into Venus.

Could be. And then the deniers always get it wrong even when they quote a bad source.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Another appear to a non-expert politician. There is a very attractive young lady from New York City that won an upset victory for the U.S. House of Representatives. She does not understand the science and tends to overreact a bit. Her name is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - Wikipedia

He might have a valid complain if anyone used her as a source but no one has or is foolish enough to use a non-expert politician to support our argument. By the way, she is HOT!

Ah, yes, I know who she is. Definitely triggers quite a few of them. Our erstwhile interlocutor, stuffs her sentence fragments (or rambles, depending) with random abbreviations and expect us to follow her non-sequiturs. Your message on the other hand was instantly digestible.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Earth's pressure is not high enough per Prof. Emeritus Richard Lindzen to be like Venus. We are not Venus. Basic geology-oceans & vegetation plus limestone/dolomite. These are our 3 repositories for absorption. Now if you're the modeler, why don't guestimate what the climate is going to be once the North American collides with SE Asia.

It's the partial pressure of CO2 on Earth that determines the magnitude of the greenhouse effect on this planet as well. This is true whether a CO2 dominated atmosphere is ultimately possible or not. (and in our case it isn't.)

The ultimate point of this whole line of commentary by myself is that there is nothing to limit the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, except limiting the input (or finding a way to extract it). No chemical limit will halt it, unlike water which is frequently near saturation.

 

[lordjeff]

It's the partial pressure of CO2 on Earth that determines the magnitude of the greenhouse effect on this planet as well. This is true whether a CO2 dominated atmosphere is ultimately possible or not. (and in our case it isn't.)

The ultimate point of this whole line of commentary by myself is that there is nothing to limit the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, except limiting the input (or finding a way to extract it). No chemical limit will halt it, unlike water which is frequently near saturation.

They can do that by carbon sequestration. They already used carbon scrubbers. Thing is transportation & heating are still for efficiency reasons relay on carbon. Carbon composites like plastic may see a reduced use now that many communities are getting rid of the infamous plastic bag & cup because people are littering too much or they are taking up space in a landfill.

 

[lordjeff]

As I understand it she said that we have 12 years in order to reverse the warming trend before it becomes irreversible. Not 12 years before we turn into Venus.

I guess that shows one how bad the education system is in the U.S. My proposal to put earth science back in the high school curriculum makes more sense when you see the level of stupidity as expressed by this rep & her sycophants.

 

[Strathos]

I guess that shows one how bad the education system is in the U.S. My proposal to put earth science back in the high school curriculum makes more sense when you see the level of stupidity as expressed by this rep & her sycophants.

So I suppose you have a more accurate estimate then?

 

[Hans Blaster]

They can do that by carbon sequestration. They already used carbon scrubbers. Thing is transportation & heating are still for efficiency reasons relay on carbon. Carbon composites like plastic may see a reduced use now that many communities are getting rid of the infamous plastic bag & cup because people are littering too much or they are taking up space in a landfill.

Plastics are not the source of our CO2 problem. sequestration and scrubbing aren't beyond the testing/pilot phase. Non-fossil fuel electricity can be used for ground transportation.

But I really have to wonder what this discussion is to you. It seems like its just some sort of generic political topic. I try several times to demonstrate or enlighten on CO2 as a real greenhouse gas (and the most important one at that) and you either completely fail to comprehend or decide to ignore the replies and throw out irrelevancies.

To recap the recent part of this thread:

CO2 does not have a chemical limiting at conditions like in our atmosphere. H2O does.
It's the partial pressure of CO2 that sets the "strength" of the CO2 greenhouse effect.
No one (but you) said anything about a Venus-type situation, nor did we imply it.
You've been trying to down play anthropogenic CO2 since you joined this thread 8 weeks ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Plastics are not the source of our CO2 problem. sequestration and scrubbing aren't beyond the testing/pilot phase. Non-fossil fuel electricity can be used for ground transportation.

But I really have to wonder what this discussion is to you. It seems like its just some sort of generic political topic. I try several times to demonstrate or enlighten on CO2 as a real greenhouse gas (and the most important one at that) and you either completely fail to comprehend or decide to ignore the replies and throw out irrelevancies.

To recap the recent part of this thread:

CO2 does not have a chemical limiting at conditions like in our atmosphere. H2O does.
It's the partial pressure of CO2 that sets the "strength" of the CO2 greenhouse effect.
No one (but you) said anything about a Venus-type situation, nor did we imply it.
You've been trying to down play anthropogenic CO2 since you joined this thread 8 weeks ago.

Also when it comes to renewables Europe as a whole is doing very well. The following is a post of their progress as of 2018 the heavy lines in the bar graph are their goals to achieve by this year:

Renewable energy statistics - Statistics Explained

 

[Hans Blaster]

Also when it comes to renewables Europe as a whole is doing very well. The following is a post of their progress as of 2018 the heavy lines in the bar graph are their goals to achieve by this year:

Renewable energy statistics - Statistics Explained

I wonder if the pandemic will distort this year's results. With a reduction in transport usage which is largely non-renewable. (And perhaps a slowdown in the growth of electric cars as people put off buying new cars in a depression.)

 

[Subduction Zone]

I wonder if the pandemic will distort this year's results. With a reduction in transport usage which is largely non-renewable. (And perhaps a slowdown in the growth of electric cars as people put off buying new cars in a depression.)

I am fairly sure that there will be a bump that does not reflect reality. I also think that those who are deciding policy will understand why the bump is artificial and not pat themselves on the back to severely.

 

[Gene2memE]

I wonder if the pandemic will distort this year's results. With a reduction in transport usage which is largely non-renewable. (And perhaps a slowdown in the growth of electric cars as people put off buying new cars in a depression.)

Air transport accounted for just under 4% of total EU emissions in 2017. So, if air travel is down by 50% this year (which is probably a best case scenario), you can easily cut 2% of of total EU emissions.

European air travel took ~8 years to get back to at trend growth after the financial crisis. That probably reduced aviation's emissions in the bloc by about 15-20% total over the period. The post-COVID economic crisis is going to be much worse.

I'd say that EU air transport emissions could be down by a cumulative 35-40% over the next three years compared to expected pre COVID-19 baseline growth.

 

[greatcloudlives]

pubs.onlindlibary.wiley.com site shows that the MWP was global and as warm as it is now.

 

[greatcloudlives]

The link could not be found in the posted link above please type in your search engine.

"Evidence for a medieval warm period in a 1,100 year tree ring reconstruction of past austral summer temperatures in New Zealand." Type this in word for word to reach the evidence found there.

This paper found at the site shows that as far south as New Zealand there is evidence for the MWP in New Zealand.

 

[Hans Blaster]

error.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The link could not be found in the posted link above please type in your search engine.

"Evidence for a medieval warm period in a 1,100 year tree ring reconstruction of past austral summer temperatures in New Zealand." Type this in word for word to reach the evidence found there.

This paper found at the site shows that as far south as New Zealand there is evidence for the MWP in New Zealand.

DOIs should work (so many of the journals are tied to redirects and cookies, etc., my first attempt to link failed. Let's see how this one goes.)

https://doi.org/10.1029/2001GL014580