Biden v. Trump on Putin

Akita Suggagaki

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The last administration??? Was it the last administration that left Americans to the Taliban or ran out on those who risked their lives to help us, or refused to adjust our departure time to accommodate our allies or is negotiating with Iran through Russia and setting the Middle East up for new instability and increased terrorism? We have compromised our national security and the security of other nations in this administration and Biden has failed to deal effectively with Putin. Clearly considering the failures of this administration I can understand why you would want to change the focus to the last administration.
Don't get me wrong. I never had a Biden sign in my yard. I voted 3rd party. But I do think Biden is less a disaster than his predecessor.
 
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SimplyMe

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The last administration??? Was it the last administration that left Americans to the Taliban

That could be answered "yes." It was Trump that let Taliban leaders out of prison to negotiate a US withdrawal (without including the Afghan government in those negotiations). It was also Trump that let additional Taliban fighters out of prison as part of the withdrawal agreement.

I believe this also hits on another of your points -- Biden extended the withdrawal date from May to early September. While it was not expected that the Afghan government would fall as quickly as it did, it was largely known that it would happen. Even at the time the withdrawal was negotiated, the Taliban controlled some areas of the country. As such, Americans should have been aware that they should leave prior to the withdrawal date (originally May), and definitely should have left prior to the time the US pulled out in late August.

or ran out on those who risked their lives to help us,

Trump absolutely did this -- you don't recall the criticism of how he abandoned the Kurds when we left Syria?

And, again, it was Trump that negotiated the withdrawal and his administration that was refusing to provide asylum status for those who helped us in Afghanistan. The fact is, the process typically takes nine months -- and the Trump administration was found to be violating the law with not processing asylum requests by Afghanis. Biden was not the President for nine months prior to the withdrawal -- remember it was planned he'd only be in office for four months before the withdrawal occurred.

or refused to adjust our departure time to accommodate our allies

Except, as pointed out, Biden did adjust our departure time -- pushing it back by three months. I suspect he would have liked to have pushed it further but the Taliban was eager for us to leave and wanted more from the US that we were willing (or should) have given them for a further delay.

or is negotiating with Iran through Russia and setting the Middle East up for new instability and increased terrorism?

Except he wouldn't have to if Trump had not "quit" the previous agreement. Instead, Iran had started processing Uranium and those we negotiated the last time (largely our European allies) would not help us this time for fear the next president would just "undo" all their hard work again. It is also Trump that largely allowed Russia to have such a strong voice in the Middle East, abandoning our allies there and letting Russia take over the efforts in Syria (and elsewhere).

We have compromised our national security and the security of other nations in this administration and Biden has failed to deal effectively with Putin. Clearly considering the failures of this administration I can understand why you would want to change the focus to the last administration.

So you claim but, from where I sit, it was Trump that did that. Trump started his term trying to undo most Russian sanctions -- despite their interference in the 2016 election. Congress stopped him from doing this, passing sanctions nearly unanimously (such that Trump could not veto the sanctions). He gave Classified information to Russia, jeopardizing our source for the information (since it came from Israel's intelligence sources). Later he said in a press conference, held in Iceland, that he trusted Putin over US Intelligence -- a huge coup for Putin on the world stage. He abandoned the Kurds in Syria, again giving Russia sway over Syria and other parts of the Middle East. We know Trump damaged relations in NATO, actually saying we may not respond if another NATO nation was attacked; and then we've learned in the last year (from multiple sources within the Trump administration) that Trump would have pulled us completely out of NATO, if he'd been re-elected -- which is Putin's dream scenario.

If Trump had his way, Putin would not only be in Ukraine but likely in the Baltic countries, Moldavia, and possibly even Poland, Slovakia, and other former Warsaw pact countries. Instead, Biden has kept us out of a war and crippled Russia economically while giving aid to Ukraine, to the point that Ukraine has pushed back the Russian invaders -- with current reports that Russia troops will withdraw to the Donbas regions. It would seem Biden has been quite effective in "dealing with Putin."
 
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disciple Clint

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Don't get me wring. I never had a Biden sign in my yard. I voted 3rd party. But I do think Biden is less a disaster than his predecessor.
well you might want to ask the people who are still be hunted by the Taliban, and the U.S. citizens left behind how they feel about Biden
 
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disciple Clint

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That could be answered "yes." It was Trump that let Taliban leaders out of prison to negotiate a US withdrawal (without including the Afghan government in those negotiations). It was also Trump that let additional Taliban fighters out of prison as part of the withdrawal agreement.

I believe this also hits on another of your points -- Biden extended the withdrawal date from May to early September. While it was not expected that the Afghan government would fall as quickly as it did, it was largely known that it would happen. Even at the time the withdrawal was negotiated, the Taliban controlled some areas of the country. As such, Americans should have been aware that they should leave prior to the withdrawal date (originally May), and definitely should have left prior to the time the US pulled out in late August.



Trump absolutely did this -- you don't recall the criticism of how he abandoned the Kurds when we left Syria?

And, again, it was Trump that negotiated the withdrawal and his administration that was refusing to provide asylum status for those who helped us in Afghanistan. The fact is, the process typically takes nine months -- and the Trump administration was found to be violating the law with not processing asylum requests by Afghanis. Biden was not the President for nine months prior to the withdrawal -- remember it was planned he'd only be in office for four months before the withdrawal occurred.



Except, as pointed out, Biden did adjust our departure time -- pushing it back by three months. I suspect he would have liked to have pushed it further but the Taliban was eager for us to leave and wanted more from the US that we were willing (or should) have given them for a further delay.



Except he wouldn't have to if Trump had not "quit" the previous agreement. Instead, Iran had started processing Uranium and those we negotiated the last time (largely our European allies) would not help us this time for fear the next president would just "undo" all their hard work again. It is also Trump that largely allowed Russia to have such a strong voice in the Middle East, abandoning our allies there and letting Russia take over the efforts in Syria (and elsewhere).



So you claim but, from where I sit, it was Trump that did that. Trump started his term trying to undo most Russian sanctions -- despite their interference in the 2016 election. Congress stopped him from doing this, passing sanctions nearly unanimously (such that Trump could not veto the sanctions). He gave Classified information to Russia, jeopardizing our source for the information (since it came from Israel's intelligence sources). Later he said in a press conference, held in Iceland, that he trusted Putin over US Intelligence -- a huge coup for Putin on the world stage. He abandoned the Kurds in Syria, again giving Russia sway over Syria and other parts of the Middle East. We know Trump damaged relations in NATO, actually saying we may not respond if another NATO nation was attacked; and then we've learned in the last year (from multiple sources within the Trump administration) that Trump would have pulled us completely out of NATO, if he'd been re-elected -- which is Putin's dream scenario.

If Trump had his way, Putin would not only be in Ukraine but likely in the Baltic countries, Moldavia, and possibly even Poland, Slovakia, and other former Warsaw pact countries. Instead, Biden has kept us out of a war and crippled Russia economically while giving aid to Ukraine, to the point that Ukraine has pushed back the Russian invaders -- with current reports that Russia troops will withdraw to the Donbas regions. It would seem Biden has been quite effective in "dealing with Putin."
Trump would have never left American citizens behind in Afghanistan, He would not have given up Bagram AFB, He would not have let Putin invade (even just a a minor, as Biden said was ok, invasion) The head of NATO praised Trump for making it stronger. Trump sanctioned Russia far more than any other president. Reentering the Iran deal will create a new disaster and lead to war in the middle east. It is beyond foolish.
 
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7thKeeper

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Trump would have never left American citizens behind in Afghanistan, He would not have given up Bagram AFB, He would not have let Putin invade (even just a a minor, as Biden said was ok, invasion) The head of NATO praised Trump for making it stronger. Trump sanctioned Russia far more than any other president. Reentering the Iran deal will create a new disaster and lead to war in the middle east. It is beyond foolish.

Now this bolded part is just pure fantasy.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Now this bolded part is just pure fantasy.
That is the main problem in Trumpdom. Things a believed simply because people want to believe them, from The former president on down to the people proudly displaying "F$#@ Biden" signs. Fantasy and reality get blurred. The result is something like January 6th.
 
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SimplyMe

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Trump would have never left American citizens behind in Afghanistan, He would not have given up Bagram AFB, He would not have let Putin invade (even just a a minor, as Biden said was ok, invasion)

That is a nice belief. Unfortunately there is no evidence for any of those items.

As for Biden, he did not call it a "minor" invasion. The quote, completely removed from context, was from before the invasion occurred and was talking about the US response. The quote, "I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do."

It's also worth noting that Trump actually praised Putin after the invasion, stating "‘This is genius.’ He used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy.” I suspect this is another time that it would have taken near unanimous votes by Congress to get Trump to put sanctions on Russia/Putin.

The head of NATO praised Trump for making it stronger.

Yes, my recollection is that was made in June of 2017, less than six months after Trump took office.

Trump sanctioned Russia far more than any other president.

Pure fantasy, even if you give Trump credit for the sanctions he refused to do (and the ones he removed); that Congress was so upset about they passed a veto-proof bill to reinstate them -- meaning the Republican majority in Congress was frustrated with Trump removing sanctions.

Reentering the Iran deal will create a new disaster and lead to war in the middle east. It is beyond foolish.

Yes, we are so much safer now with Iran enriching uranium to create nuclear weapons; [sarcasm] I'm sure Iran with nuclear weapons will make the Middle East much safer.[/sarcasm]
 
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disciple Clint

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That is a nice belief. Unfortunately there is no evidence for any of those items.

As for Biden, he did not call it a "minor" invasion. The quote, completely removed from context, was from before the invasion occurred and was talking about the US response. The quote, "I think what you're going to see is that Russia will be held accountable if it invades. And it depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and then we end up having a fight about what to do and not do."

It's also worth noting that Trump actually praised Putin after the invasion, stating "‘This is genius.’ He used the word ‘independent’ and ‘we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.’ You gotta say that’s pretty savvy.” I suspect this is another time that it would have taken near unanimous votes by Congress to get Trump to put sanctions on Russia/Putin.



Yes, my recollection is that was made in June of 2017, less than six months after Trump took office.



Pure fantasy, even if you give Trump credit for the sanctions he refused to do (and the ones he removed); that Congress was so upset about they passed a veto-proof bill to reinstate them -- meaning the Republican majority in Congress was frustrated with Trump removing sanctions.



Yes, we are so much safer now with Iran enriching uranium to create nuclear weapons; [sarcasm] I'm sure Iran with nuclear weapons will make the Middle East much safer.[/sarcasm]
Biden basically invited Putin to do anything he wanted to do and Biden runs every time Putin talks tough. There can be no doubt that Biden left Americans behind in Afghanistan along with people who were hunted down and killed because they help us. Not mention the 13 service people who were needlessly killed. Biden still cannot make up his mind if the sanctions that he threatened were or were not supposed to be deterrents to Putin. Unfortunately the only thing consistent about Biden and his leadership from the rear is he consistently says one thing and does exactly the opposite.
 
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Biden basically invited Putin to do anything he wanted to do and Biden runs every time Putin talks tough. There can be no doubt that Biden left Americans behind in Afghanistan along with people who were hunted down and killed because they help us. Not mention the 13 service people who were needlessly killed. Biden still cannot make up his mind if the sanctions that he threatened were or were not supposed to be deterrents to Putin. Unfortunately the only thing consistent about Biden and his leadership from the rear is he consistently says one thing and does exactly the opposite.
I would say we should ask the Russian soldiers invading ukraine if they think Biden is running from Putin, but they are too busy being cooked alive in their tanks by the Javelins that Biden supplied Ukraine, using the training that was supplied to them from an organization Trump wanted to dismantle.

"No one has sent more help than America" - President Zelensky
 
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SimplyMe

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So an editorial written by Jen Kerns (brief bio: Jen Kerns has served as a GOP strategist and writer for the U.S. presidential debates for FOX News) is somehow reliable? I'm sure if someone posted an editorial by someone that had worked for the Democratic Party that you'd have zero issue with the claims in the editorial, particularly since they are unsupported.

Again, it completely ignores how Pres. Trump was attempting to remove sanctions, before Congress stopped him, gave Russia classified intelligence -- threatening that a country, or several, would stop sharing intelligence with us -- and how he said he believed Putin about election interference over US intelligence.
 
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SimplyMe

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Biden basically invited Putin to do anything he wanted to do and Biden runs every time Putin talks tough.

The crippling sanctions say otherwise. You seem to be confusing Biden with Trump -- you know, the President who didn't bring any US individuals (including interpreters) into some meetings with Putin and other Russian officials, who said he believed Putin over overwhelming US intelligence, who gave Russians Top Secret information, etc.

What more do you expect Biden to do -- particularly since if he did anything militarily to attack Russia (either in the form of ground troops or even a no-fly zone -- where our planes would be shot at and taking out Russian anti-aircraft missile sites and aircraft) you'd accuse him of being a warmonger and claiming Trump would have kept us out of the war?

There can be no doubt that Biden left Americans behind in Afghanistan

Again, you ignore that the administration told Americans to leave "immediately" starting Aug. 7, at least two weeks before we withdrew. Did you expect the US government to force Americans to leave Afghanistan? Or is it the US's responsibility to actively go find and remove people who ignore their warnings to leave?

The US government gave adequate warnings and time for US "civilians" (not in Afghanistan working for the government or a role in the withdrawal) to leave the country and then evacuated the US "necessary workers" when we actually withdrew -- along with many Americans who had not been responsible and left when told they should. Again, it was known the US was leaving -- that we were supposed to have left in May but Biden delayed it, giving Americans more time. There was no reason for Americans to still be in the country, much less expect the government to evacuate them, when they had been warned and given more than adequate time to leave. I thought Republicans believed in personal responsibility.

along with people who were hunted down and killed because they help us.

And, again, that is a process that takes months (as I showed in a previous post) -- longer than Biden was in office. The Trump administration planned to leave them there, which is why none of the work had been started when Biden took office, when it should have been near completion for most of those that helped us before Biden came into office (with the idea the US was leaving in May).

Not mention the 13 service people who were needlessly killed.

Interesting how those 13 were killed by an ISIS suicide bomber. I could have sworn Trump supporters claim that Trump completely defeated ISIS. There is no reason to believe a similar attack would not have occurred under Trump.

Biden still cannot make up his mind if the sanctions that he threatened were or were not supposed to be deterrents to Putin. Unfortunately the only thing consistent about Biden and his leadership from the rear is he consistently says one thing and does exactly the opposite.

Yes, we are well aware of your opinion, as well as how you don't try to support your opinion -- at least, other than Republican propaganda editorials that also don't support what they claim.
 
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disciple Clint

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I would say we should ask the Russian soldiers invading ukraine if they think Biden is running from Putin, but they are too busy being cooked alive in their tanks by the Javelins that Biden supplied Ukraine, using the training that was supplied to them from an organization Trump wanted to dismantle.

"No one has sent more help than America" - President Zelensky
Trump supplied weapons to Ukraine. What organization did Trump want to dismantle? Some citation needed.
 
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disciple Clint

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So an editorial written by Jen Kerns (brief bio: Jen Kerns has served as a GOP strategist and writer for the U.S. presidential debates for FOX News) is somehow reliable? I'm sure if someone posted an editorial by someone that had worked for the Democratic Party that you'd have zero issue with the claims in the editorial, particularly since they are unsupported.

Again, it completely ignores how Pres. Trump was attempting to remove sanctions, before Congress stopped him, gave Russia classified intelligence -- threatening that a country, or several, would stop sharing intelligence with us -- and how he said he believed Putin about election interference over US intelligence.
Funny I felt that the Jen Kerns editorial was every bit as good maybe even better than the one you wrote.
 
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SimplyMe

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Funny I felt that the Jen Kerns editorial was every bit as good maybe even better than the one you wrote.

I'm sure you did, people tend to prefer writing (even questionable editorials) that match their pre-conceived biases.
 
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disciple Clint

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The crippling sanctions say otherwise. You seem to be confusing Biden with Trump -- you know, the President who didn't bring any US individuals (including interpreters) into some meetings with Putin and other Russian officials, who said he believed Putin over overwhelming US intelligence, who gave Russians Top Secret information, etc.

What more do you expect Biden to do -- particularly since if he did anything militarily to attack Russia (either in the form of ground troops or even a no-fly zone -- where our planes would be shot at and taking out Russian anti-aircraft missile sites and aircraft) you'd accuse him of being a warmonger and claiming Trump would have kept us out of the war?



Again, you ignore that the administration told Americans to leave "immediately" starting Aug. 7, at least two weeks before we withdrew. Did you expect the US government to force Americans to leave Afghanistan? Or is it the US's responsibility to actively go find and remove people who ignore their warnings to leave?

The US government gave adequate warnings and time for US "civilians" (not in Afghanistan working for the government or a role in the withdrawal) to leave the country and then evacuated the US "necessary workers" when we actually withdrew -- along with many Americans who had not been responsible and left when told they should. Again, it was known the US was leaving -- that we were supposed to have left in May but Biden delayed it, giving Americans more time. There was no reason for Americans to still be in the country, much less expect the government to evacuate them, when they had been warned and given more than adequate time to leave. I thought Republicans believed in personal responsibility.



And, again, that is a process that takes months (as I showed in a previous post) -- longer than Biden was in office. The Trump administration planned to leave them there, which is why none of the work had been started when Biden took office, when it should have been near completion for most of those that helped us before Biden came into office (with the idea the US was leaving in May).



Interesting how those 13 were killed by an ISIS suicide bomber. I could have sworn Trump supporters claim that Trump completely defeated ISIS. There is no reason to believe a similar attack would not have occurred under Trump.



Yes, we are well aware of your opinion, as well as how you don't try to support your opinion -- at least, other than Republican propaganda editorials that also don't support what they claim.
Maybe you have forgotten that Biden gave China classified intelligence information that China then passed along to Putin. I would have expected Biden to keep his word when he pledged that he would not remove our troops until all Americans had been removed. I also would have expected Biden to allow the Migs to be given to Ukraine, to invoke sanctions before the invasion as a deterrent, to expedite the shipment of weapons, to take the lead in cutting off Russian energy imports instead of waiting for Germany to lead the way and Congress to force him into it. I would expect him to act presidential instead of leading from behind.
 
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SimplyMe

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Maybe you have forgotten that Biden gave China classified intelligence information that China then passed along to Putin.

Did he? Citation? Yes, I'm aware that Biden shared some Classified Information with China, showing some of things the Russians had done -- why the Chinese should not interfere with sanctions, or even join in sanctioning Russia. While I've seen right wing pundits speculate it was passed onto Russia, I've seen no evidence -- particular since I'm not sure what it would do for Russia? Why would Russia care about intelligence that shows their own troop movements, are you suggesting Russia doesn't know where their own troop are or what they've been doing?

Beyond that, note the rest of what I stated about the intelligence Trump passed to Russia. It was intelligence from a foreign intelligence source (Israel) that we had not been given permission to share. By sharing it, Trump jeopardized our intelligence sharing with Israel. From what I know, Biden shared nothing from a non-US agency.

I would have expected Biden to keep his word when he pledged that he would not remove our troops until all Americans had been removed.

Oh, so you did expect US troops to roam the countryside until they found every last American and forced them, at gunpoint, to leave.

I also would have expected Biden to allow the Migs to be given to Ukraine,

Why Biden and not Poland? After all, they are Poland's MiGs -- why wouldn't Poland give them to Ukraine directly? Why wouldn't Poland turn the planes over to the US in Poland -- why did they insist on shipping them to Germany to turn them over?

I won't write a novel on the issues with the MiGs, merely note they are an old design that most aviation experts did not expect to really help Ukraine -- their technology is too old compared to the current fighters Russia is using. Additionally, the second issue is flying them into Ukraine -- first their is the issue they might be shot down by Russian fighters while piloted by NATO pilots (increasing the risk of NATO joining the war) or used to claim NATO was engaging in military actions.

While I would have liked to see Ukraine get the MiGs, from what I know of the situation, this is an instance where Pres. Biden deferred to what his generals were telling him -- that we could provide far better equipment to Ukraine without the risks of trying to get MiGs from Germany to Ukraine.

to invoke sanctions before the invasion as a deterrent,

I'm sorry, this doesn't even make sense. We had sanctions already with Russia prior to the invasion. And if we added more sanctions, like we have now, what reason does Russia then have not to invade? There isn't much more than can be done without declaring war.

to expedite the shipment of weapons,

I'm sorry? Where are you getting this from? Everything I can find is the US is expediting the shipment of weapons to Ukraine. I also know that we have been running daily Air Force operations (Air Force spy planes) along the edge of Ukrainian airspace since before the invasion started. These planes have the capability to monitor all Ukraine and, from what I know of it, this intelligence information is being shared with Ukraine.

to take the lead in cutting off Russian energy imports instead of waiting for Germany to lead the way and Congress to force him into it.

Actually, he did. In fact, Germany is still importing Russian oil, so he didn't wait for Germany to "lead the way."

I would expect him to act presidential instead of leading from behind.

My guess is you object to the fact that he is consulting and trying to build a consensus with our NATO allies -- but, from my experience, that is always a positive in a leader, not a negative.

But the fact is, he isn't leading from "behind," other than in the imaginations of right wing pundits. For example, a Japanese article on how Biden led and handled the Russian invasion of Ukraine just right.
 
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disciple Clint

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Did he? Citation? Yes, I'm aware that Biden shared some Classified Information with China, showing some of things the Russians had done -- why the Chinese should not interfere with sanctions, or even join in sanctioning Russia. While I've seen right wing pundits speculate it was passed onto Russia, I've seen no evidence -- particular since I'm not sure what it would do for Russia? Why would Russia care about intelligence that shows their own troop movements, are you suggesting Russia doesn't know where their own troop are or what they've been doing?

Beyond that, note the rest of what I stated about the intelligence Trump passed to Russia. It was intelligence from a foreign intelligence source (Israel) that we had not been given permission to share. By sharing it, Trump jeopardized our intelligence sharing with Israel. From what I know, Biden shared nothing from a non-US agency.



Oh, so you did expect US troops to roam the countryside until they found every last American and forced them, at gunpoint, to leave.



Why Biden and not Poland? After all, they are Poland's MiGs -- why wouldn't Poland give them to Ukraine directly? Why wouldn't Poland turn the planes over to the US in Poland -- why did they insist on shipping them to Germany to turn them over?

I won't write a novel on the issues with the MiGs, merely note they are an old design that most aviation experts did not expect to really help Ukraine -- their technology is too old compared to the current fighters Russia is using. Additionally, the second issue is flying them into Ukraine -- first their is the issue they might be shot down by Russian fighters while piloted by NATO pilots (increasing the risk of NATO joining the war) or used to claim NATO was engaging in military actions.

While I would have liked to see Ukraine get the MiGs, from what I know of the situation, this is an instance where Pres. Biden deferred to what his generals were telling him -- that we could provide far better equipment to Ukraine without the risks of trying to get MiGs from Germany to Ukraine.



I'm sorry, this doesn't even make sense. We had sanctions already with Russia prior to the invasion. And if we added more sanctions, like we have now, what reason does Russia then have not to invade? There isn't much more than can be done without declaring war.



I'm sorry? Where are you getting this from? Everything I can find is the US is expediting the shipment of weapons to Ukraine. I also know that we have been running daily Air Force operations (Air Force spy planes) along the edge of Ukrainian airspace since before the invasion started. These planes have the capability to monitor all Ukraine and, from what I know of it, this intelligence information is being shared with Ukraine.



Actually, he did. In fact, Germany is still importing Russian oil, so he didn't wait for Germany to "lead the way."



My guess is you object to the fact that he is consulting and trying to build a consensus with our NATO allies -- but, from my experience, that is always a positive in a leader, not a negative.

But the fact is, he isn't leading from "behind," other than in the imaginations of right wing pundits. For example, a Japanese article on how Biden led and handled the Russian invasion of Ukraine just right.
While I've seen right wing pundits speculate it was passed onto Russia, I've seen no evidence -- particular since I'm not sure what it would do for Russia? Why would Russia care about intelligence that shows their own troop movements, are you suggesting Russia doesn't know where their own troop are or what they've been doing?
WASHINGTON — Over three months, senior Biden administration officials held half a dozen urgent meetings with top Chinese officials in which the Americans presented intelligence showing Russia’s troop buildup around Ukraine and beseeched the Chinese to tell Russia not to invade, according to U.S. officials.

Each time, the Chinese officials, including the foreign minister and the ambassador to the United States, rebuffed the Americans, saying they did not think an invasion was in the works. After one diplomatic exchange in December, U.S. officials got intelligence showing Beijing had shared the information with Moscow, telling the Russians that the United States was trying to sow discord — and that China would not try to impede Russian plans and actions, the officials said. U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine

Oh, so you did expect US troops to roam the countryside until they found every last American and forced them, at gunpoint, to leave.
No I would expect the president to place some value on American lives and not needlessly get people killed.
Why Biden and not Poland? After all, they are Poland's MiGs -- why wouldn't Poland give them to Ukraine directly?
Poland wants the migs replace with f-15's and that is waiting on Biden

And if we added more sanctions, like we have now, what reason does Russia then have not to invade?
Russia would have wanted the sanctions removed immediately which would have given the incentive to not proceed with the invasion. All Biden did was make vague threats instead of taking real action. Putin was not impressed.

I'm sorry? Where are you getting this from? Everything I can find is the US is expediting the shipment of weapons to Ukraine.
The President of Ukraine say otherwise.

Actually, he did. In fact, Germany is still importing Russian oil, so he didn't wait for Germany to "lead the way."
Yes he did and he would not have taken action if congress and the American public opinion had not forced him to do so

My guess is you object to the fact that he is consulting and trying to build a consensus with our NATO allies
He is not consulting, he is waiting to find out what the other nations are going to do and what public opinion is before he leads from behind.
 
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SimplyMe

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WASHINGTON — Over three months, senior Biden administration officials held half a dozen urgent meetings with top Chinese officials in which the Americans presented intelligence showing Russia’s troop buildup around Ukraine and beseeched the Chinese to tell Russia not to invade, according to U.S. officials.

Each time, the Chinese officials, including the foreign minister and the ambassador to the United States, rebuffed the Americans, saying they did not think an invasion was in the works. After one diplomatic exchange in December, U.S. officials got intelligence showing Beijing had shared the information with Moscow, telling the Russians that the United States was trying to sow discord — and that China would not try to impede Russian plans and actions, the officials said. U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine

So, again, just what did Russia learn from what was shared? What intelligence sources were damaged? Are you suggesting that Russia did not know they had put so many troops around Ukraine?


No I would expect the president to place some value on American lives and not needlessly get people killed.

He did, he warned them well before the US left that they needed to get out of the country immediately. These Americans should have already known the US was leaving, that the original agreement was that the US had agreed to leave by May.

Poland wants the migs replace with f-15's and that is waiting on Biden

The US had, in principle, agreed to replace the MiGs, though Poland would not agree to give the planes to Ukraine. "Although Secretary of State Antony Blinken says the U.S. would give the go-ahead to the transfer of the planes to Ukraine and is already talking with Poland about backfilling its aircraft inventory, Poland has not yet decided to move ahead with the transfers. In a tweet over the weekend, the chancellery of the Polish prime minister called a story stating that Poland would give Ukraine MiG-29s in exchange for U.S.-made F-16s was "fake news.""

The issue, as I stated before, was the transfer of planes. Poland's issue, per Mark Cancian, a retired Marine Colonel and senior advisor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies: "It's a political issue in the sense that, if you have a Polish aircraft and you put a Ukrainian pilot in there, and that pilot then flies the aircraft into Ukraine to fight the Russians, the Russians can plausibly argue that Poland has now become a co-belligerent, since it's launching aircraft from its soil into Ukraine. "So the Poles are very, very nervous about that and want to be very careful that this does not make them vulnerable to Russian counter-actions.""

So, a couple of days later, Poland comes up with the "bright" idea that they'll give the MiGs to the US, in Germany; though they give no advance notice to the US about this "plan."

Russia would have wanted the sanctions removed immediately which would have given the incentive to not proceed with the invasion. All Biden did was make vague threats instead of taking real action. Putin was not impressed.

So if we tried what you wanted, that likely means that the next time the US military does military exercises in Germany/Western Europe, Russia is free to put "sanctions" (such as cutting off oil to Europe) since they feel the US might attack Russia. You do not punish a country (or a person) for things it looks like they might do, you have to wait until the "crime" is committed.

Beyond that, sanctions at that point are just as likely to have pushed Russia into the invasion, or even an invasion of NATO, as putting those sanctions on for what Russia "might be planning" would be legitimately seen as an act of economic warfare by the US (particularly since our NATO allies would likely not have agreed and joined us in those sanctions).

Putin is also likely to have still attacked, particularly since Russia would have already been damaged by the sanctions, which if they came off quickly, would still cause serious damage to Russia's economy. Particularly since Putin likely would have seen it as an attack against Russian sovereignty.

The President of Ukraine say otherwise.

Citation? The major complaints I've seen from Zelensky are that the US didn't do enough to help Ukraine before the war stated -- though technically that would also apply to Pres. Trump -- as Biden had sent military aid to Ukraine before the war, and that was on top of two aid packages for Ukraine sent in 2021.

The second is that Biden would not agree to a "no-fly zone." While I fully understand why Zelensky's complaint, it would put the US in a position where we would have to "attack" (through bombings) Russian troops on Russian soil; when Russian air defense batteries located on the border, but in Russia, shoot missiles at US aircraft, there to enforce the no fly zone, over Ukrainian territory.

Zelensky is in a tough position, in trying to be thankful for the aid sent, while at the same time trying to push NATO leaders -- particularly Biden -- to do more, such as the no fly zone. What I have not seen from Zelensky over the last few weeks is complaints that the aid approved is not reaching him, just a request for even more support.

Yes he did and he would not have taken action if congress and the American public opinion had not forced him to do so He is not consulting, he is waiting to find out what the other nations are going to do and what public opinion is before he leads from behind.

And yet, Biden's leadership has been praised by sources such as Forbes, the Hill, the Japan Times, the Economist, etc. -- publications that aren't slanted toward Democrats, with a couple non-US sources. The complaints about Biden's leadership seems to largely be a Republican politically fueled complaint and not one shared by most of the world.

And for all the complaints about his leadership, if Biden had been more "forceful" (what Zelensky was calling for) -- such as setting up a no fly zone -- then Republicans would be criticizing him for putting US troops in a foreign war. Biden cannot win with the Republican spin machine. If he is more of a "leader", more forceful, then he is a warmonger but if he acts in a measured and determined fashion, as he has, then he is "weak," at least per the Republican spin machine.
 
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