Trump envisioned deal to let Russia ‘take over’ parts of Ukraine

GreatLakes4Ever

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Does not change the fact that board incursions and live lost only happened when Biden was Vice President or President.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself - it is self evident.

Have a great day!

111 civilians died in the Russo-Ukrainian War from 2018-2020. Trump was president the whole year each of those years. That’s just the civilian deaths.
 
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wing2000

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It seems like he said we could have had peace without having to make a deal.

"...all he needed to do was let Russia “take over” parts of Ukraine."

Of course, there would be no deal necessary with Trump simply gifting his friend territory!
 
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HTacianas

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"...all he needed to do was let Russia “take over” parts of Ukraine."

Of course, there would be no deal necessary with Trump simply gifting his friend territory!

I read the article. Not just the clickbait headline.

But if we look at history, we see that while Obama was president -and Biden was Vice President- Russia gained Crimea. While Trump was President Russia gained nothing. And Trump armed Ukraine with weapons to fight the Russian separatists. Biden becomes President and Russia moves in and grabs whatever they want. So the idea of Putin getting anything from Trump is rather ridiculous.
 
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NxNW

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Does not change the fact that board incursions and live lost only happened when Biden was Vice President or President.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself - it is self evident.
Everyone who confuses correlation with causality dies. You can't deny that fact.
 
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wing2000

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I read the article. Not just the clickbait headline.

But if we look at history, we see that while Obama was president -and Biden was Vice President- Russia gained Crimea. While Trump was President Russia gained nothing. And Trump armed Ukraine with weapons to fight the Russian separatists. Biden becomes President and Russia moves in and grabs whatever they want. So the idea of Putin getting anything from Trump is rather ridiculous.

...yes, eventually the Trump administration consented to the request of arms from the Ukranian president...but first .....“I would like you to do us a favor though,”

And if you really looked at Russian history and in particular, Putin's delusional thinking, you would undertand the American president really had very little to do with his actions. But alas, Americans see the lens through their narrow political lens.
 
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keith99

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It happened during the Obama/Biden Administration and this time during the Biden/Harris Administration - there is only one common denominator my friend.
Yes, Putin does not attack when his friend is in office. He hopes to get what he wants as a gift!
 
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Pommer

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Pommer

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Thats was the grand prize Putin hoped for, and most likely the glittering possibility that made him hold back from a full on invasion. Biden has much more appreciation for cultivating enduring ally relationships.
Yeah, well, the date of TheHill piece is 01/15/19, they knew it was going to take some time to get the Military and the Congress to agree to anything near this. It may also give us an indication that he was going to try to get a NATO pullout before his second term and maybe would have, if not for COVID?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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While we tend to think of "appeasement" as a sign of weakness...(and maybe we should in certain cases), there is some precedent for it with regards to how a lot of our modern presidents have dealt with such situations (especially when they're ones that don't involve any potential casualties on US soil)

One could argue that almost every president in the last 30 years has engaged in some form of appeasement with China.

Russia was allowed to annex Crimea in 2014 with virtually no interference apart from some toothless sanctions and rhetoric (in fact, one could probably make a solid case that our appeasement of Russia started at the tail end of WW2)

We appeased Iran with cash

Bill Clinton went with approach of encouraging Bosnians to make territorial concessions in order to "prevent future conflict"

Iran-Contra under Reagan was an appeasement attempt on two fronts



People tend to speak out of both sides out for their mouth with regards to how our leaders interact with foreign entities (especially nefarious ones)

Any form of "appeasement" is met with criticisms for "giving in to evil foreign dictators"

Any form of "actually doing something about it" is met with accusations of being "hawkish" or "escalating tensions"


Most presidents (regardless of party) are put between a rock and a hard place when citizens are seemingly equally critical of both "doing nothing" and "doing something"
 
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HTacianas

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...yes, eventually the Trump administration consented to the request of arms from the Ukranian president...but first .....“I would like you to do us a favor though,”

And if you really looked at Russian history and in particular, Putin's delusional thinking, you would undertand the American president really had very little to do with his actions. But alas, Americans see the lens through their narrow political lens.

The Trump administration began providing weapons to Ukraine in 2017. The first year he was in office.

It is obvious now that you simply do not know the facts of the matter, you only see things through your "narrow political lens".
 
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hislegacy

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Yes, Putin does not attack when his friend is in office. He hopes to get what he wants as a gift!
IMHO That logic is your weakness.

If they were friends - why wouldn't his friend just turn his back on the war? Kinda like Joe did until there was a universal hue and cry?
 
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Gene2memE

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The Trump administration began providing weapons to Ukraine in 2017. The first year he was in office.

The US had already allowed direct commercial sales of US weapons to Ukraine (by giving export authorisations). Commercial sale authorisations were given repeatedly, not just under Obama in 2014-2016, but under George W Bush as well.

The difference in 2017 was that this was the first time that lethal weapons had been included in US support packages to Ukraine.

The decision was made in late 2017, after the intensity of fighting in Luhansk and Donestk had ratcheted up through the year. The separatists had somehow 'found' several hundred BMPs, BRDMs, T-72s, T-64s and other armoured fighting vehicles and artillery systems from 2014 through 2017.

What was really odd was that a lot of this 'mystery' equipment was post-Soviet era stuff that had never been exported to Ukraine. I wonder where it could have come from? Could it be from the staging areas on Russia's border with Ukraine that would fill up with equipment and then suddenly be empty?


Then there was the fact that there were already several thousand Russian troops (at a minimum) operating inside Ukraine by 2017.
 
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SimplyMe

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While we tend to think of "appeasement" as a sign of weakness...(and maybe we should in certain cases), there is some precedent for it with regards to how a lot of our modern presidents have dealt with such situations (especially when they're ones that don't involve any potential casualties on US soil)

One could argue that almost every president in the last 30 years has engaged in some form of appeasement with China.

Russia was allowed to annex Crimea in 2014 with virtually no interference apart from some toothless sanctions and rhetoric (in fact, one could probably make a solid case that our appeasement of Russia started at the tail end of WW2)

We appeased Iran with cash

Bill Clinton went with approach of encouraging Bosnians to make territorial concessions in order to "prevent future conflict"

Iran-Contra under Reagan was an appeasement attempt on two fronts



People tend to speak out of both sides out for their mouth with regards to how our leaders interact with foreign entities (especially nefarious ones)

Any form of "appeasement" is met with criticisms for "giving in to evil foreign dictators"

Any form of "actually doing something about it" is met with accusations of being "hawkish" or "escalating tensions"


Most presidents (regardless of party) are put between a rock and a hard place when citizens are seemingly equally critical of both "doing nothing" and "doing something"

I'm sorry, I have an issue with how you seem to be defining "appeasement." To be clear, my understanding of the definition is one I'm borrowing from the Cambridge English Dictionary, "the act of giving the opposing side in an argument or war an advantage that they have demanded, in order to prevent further disagreement"

So, no, Pres. Clinton's example wasn't actual "appeasement" -- though it appears he was pushing appeasement by the Bosnians.

Iran-Contra was definitely not appeasement. Now, you can argue that Reagan broke his rule of not negotiating with terrorists, since one aim was the hope that selling weapons would get Iran backed terrorists, which had been promised, to give up captives. In reality, it seems this would be the opposite of appeasement, since the other goal of the sale was to create income that would allow the US to fund the war in Nicaragua.

Russia was not appeased when they took Crimea. Regardless of whether you view the sanctions as effective or not, they are the opposite of appeasement. This was merely a case where we chose not to declare war to protect a country, but instead tried to use diplomacy to object to Russia's actions. That isn't appeasement.

Last, giving Iran money was not appeasement. Instead, many Western countries wanted Iran to quit developing and not produce nuclear weapons. As an incentive, we agreed we'd pay the money we owed Iran, that our government had held onto since the Iranian Revolution that had been paid for US weapons that were never supplied. However, had the Iranians not agreed, we still would have owed them the money.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Donald Trump has a vision, and it involves Ukrainian officials giving up parts of their country to Russia. What could possibly go wrong? Quite a bit.
It's already happened. The Russians are there, and they're not leaving. It's only a question how many more people have to die before the technocrats in Washington get that through their thick skulls...
 
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USincognito

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It's already happened. The Russians are there, and they're not leaving. It's only a question how many more people have to die before the technocrats in Washington get that through their thick skulls...
Apparently it's 125,000 Russians and counting. Maybe the oligarch in Moscow will get that through their thick skulls.
 
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