True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

[stuart lawrence]

Not at all. These were not people who understood that "works" are God directed and not man directed. They were involved in man directed Works Salvationism or church traditions (of which I do not believe). But it is possible for even faithful believers to fall away from the faith. But their fall is not the gospel but it is their own desire to sin. Also, I just see more testimonials of how people have been led out of sin by denying OSAS and not agreeing with it. People have used your version of Grace and have been led down the wrong path because of it (like suicide, adultery, and killing others). It is what I like to call the Sociopathic gospel because you even said yourself that Paul is not under the moral law salvation wise but yet he keeps it on some level but yet he really doesn't because he must also be found as a sinner.


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You see, your views cannot align with gal 3:10&11, however rather than admit it, you will either ignore it or bring forth scriptures to try and reason your view correct that cannot possibly do so.
It is called never admitting you are wrong

 

[stuart lawrence]

Actually Jason, if your belief were correct, Paul never had a saviour from sin, the old covenant would have been fine for him. For the law you say the christian does not have a righteousness apart from is the only law Paul could not keep. So he benefitted nothing by Jesus death at Calvary if you are right
Paul may have well just kept giving sin offerings for his sin

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Actually Jason, if your belief were correct, Paul never had a saviour from sin, the old covenant would have been fine for him. For the law you say the christian does not have a righteousness apart from is the only law Paul could not keep. So he benefitted nothing by Jesus death at Calvary if you are right
Paul may have well just kept giving sin offerings for his sin

Not at all. But what does the grace of God teach us?

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" (Titus 2:11-12).

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[stuart lawrence]

Not at all. But what does the grace of God teach us?

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" (Titus 2:11-12).

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Who is denying how a christian should live their life?
But we all fall short of the letter Jason, all of us

 

[stuart lawrence]

Not at all. But what does the grace of God teach us?

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" (Titus 2:11-12).

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It is true Jason. According to you Paul never had a saviour from sin according to the moral law. But you would say because Jesus died at Calvary he could ask forgiveness if he transgressed the moral law.
But why then did God send Jesus to die at Calvary? People could faultlessly obey the legalistic law, why not just leave animal sacrifices in place for transgression of the moral law?
You see if Jesus only died to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, what was the need for him to die? God would forgive sin under the old covenant. We could all simply come to God in the first place and ask him to forgive our past sins couldn't we

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You see, your views cannot align with gal 3:10&11, however rather than admit it, you will either ignore it or bring forth scriptures to try and reason your view correct that cannot possibly do so.
It is called never admitting you are wrong

My views align perfectly with Galatians 3:10-11. The moral law was intertwined with the judicial laws in certain cases. So the Law in the Old is not the same as the Law in the New.


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[Bible Highlighter]

It is true Jason. According to you Paul never had a saviour from sin according to the moral law. But you would say because Jesus died at Calvary he could ask forgiveness if he transgressed the moral law.
But why then did God send Jesus to die at Calvary? People could faultlessly obey the legalistic law, why not just leave animal sacrifices in place for transgression of the moral law?
You see if Jesus only died to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, what was the need for him to die? God would forgive sin under the old covenant. We could all simply come to God in the first place and ask him to forgive our past sins couldn't we

Already answered this.

 

[stuart lawrence]

My views align perfectly with Galatians 3:10-11. The moral law was intertwined with the judicial laws in certain cases. So the Law in the Old is not the same as the Law in the New.


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Sorry, but you have already previously stated the moral law is NOT being spoken of in Gal 3:10&11.
Its a slam dunk Jason and that is why you are now starting to contradict yourself. Its all you can do, to search for an answer that isn't there

 

[stuart lawrence]

Already answered this.

You gave a response, I agree that much!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let's look at the words of Paul in regards to disproving OSAS.

Ephesians 2:2-3 - Paul says in times past the believers at Ephesus walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, which is the same spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Paul also says to them that they used to have their conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and WERE by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The moral law was aligned with the judicial law IN CERTAIN CASES(your words Jason)

Scripture please to back that statement up

 

[stuart lawrence]

Let's look at the words of Paul in regards to disproving OSAS.

Ephesians 2:2-3 - Paul says in times past the believers at Ephesus walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, which is the same spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Paul also says to them that they used to have their conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and WERE by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

I'm not talking about osas, stop deflecting!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The moral law was aligned with the judicial law IN CERTAIN CASES(your words Jason)

Scripture please to back that statement up

Are you being serious? If you murdered or dishonored your parents, you could be killed under the Old Law. This is not the case with the moral law under the New Covenant.



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[stuart lawrence]

Are you being serious? If you murdered or dishonored your parents, you could be killed under the Old Law. This is not the case with the moral law under the New Covenant.



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But its still one law. Your statement the moral law was aligned to the judicial law in some cases cannot be answered by what you just wrote. Law is law with or without the penalty. The moral law has not been removed.
But I repeat you have previously told me the moral law is NOT mentioned in gal3:10&11

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm not talking about osas, stop deflecting!

This thread is an OSAS thread. For OSAS is tied to your false view of Justification. It the natural result that you cannot deny.


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[stuart lawrence]

Either the whole law is mentioned in gal 3:10&11 or your view the moral law is not being spoken of at all

 

[stuart lawrence]

This thread is an OSAS thread. For OSAS is tied to your false view of Justification. It the natural result that you cannot deny.


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But i have not been discussing osas
I have to be honest, you are simply trying to deflect away from something you cannot answer

 

[stuart lawrence]

Th

This thread is an OSAS thread. For OSAS is tied to your false view of Justification. It the natural result that you cannot deny.


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This thread is about justification, that is what I want you to answer concerning gal3:10&11 and you cannot do so

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But its still one law. Your statement the moral law was aligned to the judicial law in some cases cannot be answered by what you just wrote. Law is law with or without the penalty. The moral law has not been removed.
But I repeat you have previously told me the moral law is NOT mentioned in gal3:10&11

I would say the penalty for a law greatly alters how it is obeyed and defined. If there was a death penalty assigned to speeding, then I would imagine more people would obey it. People would definitely distinguish between this speed limit law versus the speed limit laws we have now. People would not say that they were the same laws.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I would say the penalty for a law greatly alters how it is obeyed. If there was a death penalty assigned to speeding, then I would imagine more people would obey it. People would definitely distinguish between this speed limit law versus the speed limit laws we have now. People would not say that they were the same laws.

That does not in any way respond to your predicament concerning the question you have been asked in respect of gal3:10&11.