True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

[stuart lawrence]

I would say the penalty for a law greatly alters how it is obeyed and defined. If there was a death penalty assigned to speeding, then I would imagine more people would obey it. People would definitely distinguish between this speed limit law versus the speed limit laws we have now. People would not say that they were the same laws.

Paul said the ministration of death was the moral law( ten commandments)
The law you believe the christian is left under unto righteousness

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Th
This thread is about justification, that is what I want you to answer concerning gal3:10&11 and you cannot do so

But nowhere does Paul say you can break any of the moral laws and be saved. On the contrary, he essentially says that those who break the moral laws (i.e. the unrighteous in regards to murder, hate, lying, etc.) will not inherit the kingdom of God.



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[stuart lawrence]

But nowhere does Paul say you can break any of the moral laws and be saved. On the contrary, he essentially says that those who break the moral laws (i.e. the unrighteous in regards to murder, hate, lying, etc.) will not inherit the kingdom of God.



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What do you think being born again does for the christian? How would you explain the changes it brings to a person?
And what is your understanding of what it means to have the law written on your mind and placed on your heart.
These questions directly relate to your statement

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul said the ministration of death was the moral law( ten commandments)
The law you believe the christian is left under unto righteousness

It is ironic you quote this verse in Corinthians now. This is verse is saying what I have been saying. It was a ministry of death because certain of it's laws had involved the death penalty.

 

[stuart lawrence]

It is ironic you quote this verse in Corinthians now. This is verse is saying what I have been saying. It was a ministry of death because certain of it's laws had involved the death penalty.

But to you its laws do hold the death penalty for christians don't they, for it is the moral law. Therefore the christian is still under the ministration of death if you are right

 

[stuart lawrence]

It is ironic you quote this verse in Corinthians now. This is verse is saying what I have been saying. It was a ministry of death because certain of it's laws had involved the death penalty.

I very much doubt you have ever been as in earnest as I was to obey the moral law unto righteousness
I had a mother who played the martyr. As a young teenager I i didn't perform perfect, if I got angry or cross about anything she would shake her head, give a sad smile as if to say. Whats wrong with you, why cant you live as a christian should live. That gave me guilt the like of which I doubt you would ever understand. When I reached puberty, if a fleeting impure thought came to me I was filled with stark horror and my stomach churned over. I didn't want to be cast into hell
But that's your gospel isn't it. The law must be obeyed or you in danger of the fires of hell.
At church each week they were dressed in their Sunday best, the women wore expensive hats, and after the service they gave me Godly smiles, a handshake, and an appropriate scripture verse if necessary. I wondered what i was doing in the church. I honestly believed these people must be perfect. I knew very painfully I wasn't. I assumed they lived their lives 24/7 as I saw reflected in church on Sundays.
I became heavy and crushed, and felt dirty and rotten, for I could not obey the moral law on the inside. I used to sit at home on my own wondering what was wrong with me. Why could I not live perfectly and never sin, like other christians I knew. How desperately I wanted to be perfect like I assumed they were. I had no happiness those years, no peace only guilt and depression.
I know your gospel message Jason, I lived it, and i know you cannot live up to it as neither could I.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Who is denying how a christian should live their life?
But we all fall short of the letter Jason, all of us

So Christ died on the cross to allow us to sin a little or every once in a while? The "imperfection card" sounds like an excuse to hold on to sin (When you don't have to). For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.



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[Bible Highlighter]

But to you its laws do hold the death penalty for christians don't they, for it is the moral law. Therefore the christian is still under the ministration of death if you are right

No. We are under grace and not the penalty of death because we can confess and forsake sins that lead unto spiritual death and be forgiven of them.



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[stuart lawrence]

So Christ died on the cross to allow us to sin a little or every once in a while? The "imperfection card" sounds like an excuse to hold on to sin (When you don't have to). For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.



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No. We are under grace and not the penalty of death because we can confess and forsake sins that lead unto spiritual death and be forgiven of them.



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It doesn't work that way in real life if you are sincere and not hard nosed.you said we confess and forsake them. A person will then believe if they cannot forsake their sin God will cast them into hell
There was more grace under the old covenant than yours. For then sacrifices for sin could be made. Your covenat is, confess your sin and make sure you never do it again or.....

Ad I said Jason, I know your covenat, but I would not become hard nosed and phariseeical, unlike many today

 

[stuart lawrence]

Woul

So Christ died on the cross to allow us to sin a little or every once in a while? The "imperfection card" sounds like an excuse to hold on to sin (When you don't have to). For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.



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Would you like to answer my question and explain to me what you believe happens/the change that takes place when a person is born again?
And what do you think is the result of a person having the law written on their mind and placed on their heart?

 

[stuart lawrence]

So Christ died on the cross to allow us to sin a little or every once in a while? The "imperfection card" sounds like an excuse to hold on to sin (When you don't have to). For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters.



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I do hope Jason you never even fleetingly have an impure thought or covet anthing whatsoever that belongs to another, for you would of course then be holding onto your sin wouldn't you, and according to you gospel message you are then in danger of the fires of hell.
No I don't want to hold onto my sin, but neither would I reel a message off the top of my head according to the literal letter I could not live up to un my own life. That is being phariseeical

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But i have not been discussing osas
I have to be honest, you are simply trying to deflect away from something you cannot answer

OSAS is a result of your view of Justification. They go hand in hand. So it is not a deflection but merely showing you the end result of your belief on Justification is also flawed. Because what are you hoping to justify? No doubt your eternal security.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I do hope Jason you never even fleetingly have an impure thought or covet anthing whatsoever that belongs to another, for you would of course then be holding onto your sin wouldn't you, and according to you gospel message you are then in danger of the fires of hell.
No I don't want to hold onto my sin, but neither would I reel a message off the top of my head according to the literal letter I could not live up to un my own life. That is being phariseeical

I do not commit sins that lead unto spiritual death on a daily basis... no. Have I been known to faulter at times? Yes. But I believe there will be a day I will never again commit sins unto death. Why? Because I have faith in Christ and His Word. That is what you do not understand. For with man, this would be impossible. But with God all things are possible.


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[Bible Highlighter]

That does not in any way respond to your predicament concerning the question you have been asked in respect of gal3:10&11.

I already explained this several times. If you do not accept it or understand it that is on you. I am not going to keep repeating what I said. You are stuck in a feed back loop of something that does not exist. So I will ignore any future posts on these two verses.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I do hope Jason you never even fleetingly have an impure thought or covet anthing whatsoever that belongs to another, for you would of course then be holding onto your sin wouldn't you, and according to you gospel message you are then in danger of the fires of hell.
No I don't want to hold onto my sin, but neither would I reel a message off the top of my head according to the literal letter I could not live up to un my own life. That is being phariseeical

As for the literal letter: Well, we follow the Commands in the New Testament and not the Old Testament. Also I highly doubt Jesus and His apostles would give us commands in the New Testament just so that we can ignore them. Jesus said, if you love me, you will keep my Commandments.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I very much doubt you have ever been as in earnest as I was to obey the moral law unto righteousness
I had a mother who played the martyr. As a young teenager I i didn't perform perfect, if I got angry or cross about anything she would shake her head, give a sad smile as if to say. Whats wrong with you, why cant you live as a christian should live. That gave me guilt the like of which I doubt you would ever understand. When I reached puberty, if a fleeting impure thought came to me I was filled with stark horror and my stomach churned over. I didn't want to be cast into hell
But that's your gospel isn't it. The law must be obeyed or you in danger of the fires of hell.
At church each week they were dressed in their Sunday best, the women wore expensive hats, and after the service they gave me Godly smiles, a handshake, and an appropriate scripture verse if necessary. I wondered what i was doing in the church. I honestly believed these people must be perfect. I knew very painfully I wasn't. I assumed they lived their lives 24/7 as I saw reflected in church on Sundays.
I became heavy and crushed, and felt dirty and rotten, for I could not obey the moral law on the inside. I used to sit at home on my own wondering what was wrong with me. Why could I not live perfectly and never sin, like other christians I knew. How desperately I wanted to be perfect like I assumed they were. I had no happiness those years, no peace only guilt and depression.
I know your gospel message Jason, I lived it, and i know you cannot live up to it as neither could I.

You're personal life or problems does not dictate what is taught in the Word of God.



...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I do hope Jason you never even fleetingly have an impure thought or covet anthing whatsoever that belongs to another, for you would of course then be holding onto your sin wouldn't you, and according to you gospel message you are then in danger of the fires of hell.
No I don't want to hold onto my sin, but neither would I reel a message off the top of my head according to the literal letter I could not live up to un my own life. That is being phariseeical

The Pharisees never kept God's laws, too. It's not wrong to be a slave to righteousness or to be in strict obedience to Jesus.



...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It doesn't work that way in real life if you are sincere and not hard nosed.you said we confess and forsake them. A person will then believe if they cannot forsake their sin God will cast them into hell
There was more grace under the old covenant than yours. For then sacrifices for sin could be made. Your covenat is, confess your sin and make sure you never do it again or.....

Ad I said Jason, I know your covenat, but I would not become hard nosed and phariseeical, unlike many today

Hard nosed to what? The idea of being in complete dedication to God’s Commands?



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[stuart lawrence]

You're personal life or problems does not dictate what is taught in the Word of God.



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Ah Jason, how your words show your gospel has cut out the heart of Christianity by it

 

[stuart lawrence]

The Pharisees never kept God's laws, too. It's not wrong to be a slave to righteousness or to be in strict obedience to Jesus.



...

It is wrong to demand of others what you fail to live up to in your own life, that is being pharisiecal