Trinity Facts

[CherubRam]

You missed the point of reference to Zechariah 12. I assume some things that I tell others will be understood without spelling them out. In this case look back to the beginning of the chapter, even to verse one. Throughout, it is Yahweh speaking, no other speaker is introduced and it is Christ who is fulfillment of this prophecy that Yahweh says of himself. It applies whether he said, "on me" or "to me".

You were already told your examples are not three different words. Who is it that is misleading? Should you be judging the motives of any one, even the translators, whose motive was said to be devious?

I am not even using the word "Godhead", so an argument about that doesn't even apply, I am using Bible passages themselves that make the points. I showed that Yahweh shares his glory with no one else. To spell it out now, in 1 Timothy 3:16 He was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels,preached among the gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up in glory. Hebrews 2:7 shows that the Son is crowned with glory and honor. In all things he has preeminence, Colossians 1:18. In Philippians 2 it shows that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow of those in heaven and those on earth and under the earth, every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. This glory to Jesus is that of Yahweh, that he would not share with any other one. He is Yahweh. He is fully in union with the heavenly Father. There is more scripture to get to, if it is needed to be shown that the Spirit of God is included with them.

Excuse me for bumping an answer to objections to me, which was at least overlooked.

Yahshua was pierced, Yahuah was not.

Quote: "They will look to the one they have pierced,"

 

[BelCantoBaptist]

Yahshua was pierced, Yahuah was not.

Quote: "They will look to the one they have pierced,"

So now there's two separate Gods? Acts 20:28- When did God purchase the church with his own blood?

Rev 1:8-18: I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty... [18] I am the first and the last, I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."


When did God die?

 

[RevelationTestament]

When did God die?

approx 33 A.D. on the cross

 

[RevelationTestament]

Yahshua was pierced, Yahuah was not.

Quote: "They will look to the one they have pierced,"

Letter by letter YHWH means behold the nail, behold the hand. The Father and the Son share this name. And the Son doeth all things He seeth the Father do.

 

[BelCantoBaptist]

approx 33 A.D. on the cross

So Jesus is God? But there is only one God right?

 

[CherubRam]

When did God die?

approx 33 A.D. on the cross

Yahuah is immortal, He can not die; He does not have a mortal body. Yahshua had a physical body that he could die a physical death.

Yahshua was accused of claiming to be "a god" from heaven. The messiah to come would be "a god," not God the Father. The Jews understood that the messiah would be "a god," but they did not believe Yahshua because he was in mortal form. In Yahshua's second coming he will be in immortal form, and he will come in power and glory. Yahshua never claimed to be God, the Father of creation. Holy Spirit is one of many name titles for Yahuah our Holy Father.

 

[Der Alte]

...The messiah to come would be "a god," not God the Father. The Jews understood that the messiah would be "a god," but they did not believe Yahshua because he was in mortal form. ....

Do you have any scripture which supports this claim, "The Jews understood that the messiah would be 'a god,'?"

 

[CherubRam]

Do you have any scripture which supports this claim, "The Jews understood that the messiah would be 'a god,'?"

There are other old testament scriptures also. No I do not want to search for them.

John 10
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be "a" God / god.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?

 

[THIS]

Facts about Trinitarianism. Link to subject removed.

There are three, and the three are One and the same.

The trinity doctrine is a false doctrine.

The trinity doctrine says that Jesus is God but not the Father.

The Bible says that there is ONE GOD AND HE IS THE FATHER.

If Jesus is God, (and he is), then he is also the same as the Father who is the One and only God.


1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father,

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[Der Alte]

Do you have any scripture which supports this claim, "The Jews understood that the messiah would be 'a god,'?".

There are other old testament scriptures also. No I do not want to search for them.

John 10
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be "a" God / god.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?

None of these verses show that the Jews were expecting "the messiah would be 'a god.""

 

[CherubRam]

None of these verses show that the Jews were expecting "the messiah would be 'a god.""

Psalm 110:1
Yahuah said to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

Who was sitting at God's right hand?

 

[CherubRam]

There are other old testament scriptures also. No I do not want to search for them.

John 10
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be "a" God / god.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?

By the wording you can see that Yahshua is talking about "a god."

 

[Der Alte]

There are other old testament scriptures also. No I do not want to search for them.

John 10
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

John 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be "a" God / god.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?

By the wording you can see that Yahshua is talking about "a god."

Nothing in the wording suggests that the Jews were expecting the Messiah to be "a god!" The Jews did not believe in other god's. God had told them plainly in the OT that there was no god before Him, no god beside Him, and no god after Him. He said that all the gods of the nations were idols.

 

[CherubRam]

Nothing in the wording suggests that the Jews were expecting the Messiah to be "a god!" The Jews did not believe in other god's. God had told them plainly in the OT that there was no god before Him, no god beside Him, and no god after Him. He said that all the gods of the nations were idols.

Orthodox Judaism does not believe in Pagan gods, especially the god Hades. Man made gods are not gods.


All who will inherit life immortal will be gods.

Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.”

Genesis 6:2
the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took any they chose as wives for themselves.

Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth both in those days and afterwards, when the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and who bore children to them. They were powerful men of old, men of renown.

[Nephilim translated means "Fallen ones." They were [men] who were of a very low moral grade.]

Job 1:6
One day the sons of God [men] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

Job 2:1
One day the sons of God came again to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7
while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Hos 1:10
“Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, because they will be called sons of God.

Luke 20:36
For they cannot die anymore, because they are like [angels/messengers] and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection.

Galatians 3:26
for you are all sons of God through faith in Messiah Yashua.

Psalm 82:6
I said, "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.

John 10:33-34
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." [a god]
34 Yashua answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Yashua was asked if he was the Messiah, he was not asked if he was God. It has always been understood that the Messiah would be a god from Heaven.

John 10:24.
The Jews who were there gathered around him, asking, “How long will you keep us in suspense, if you’re the Messiah, tell us plainly?”



Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[2ducklow]

Orthodox Judaism does not believe in Pagan gods, especially the god Hades. Man made gods are not gods.


All who will inherit life immortal will be gods.

Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.”

Genesis 6:2
the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took any they chose as wives for themselves.

Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth both in those days and afterwards, when the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and who bore children to them. They were powerful men of old, men of renown.

[Nephilim translated means "Fallen ones." They were [men] who were of a very low moral grade.]

My church teaches that the fallen ones were Cain's descendants, and the sons of God were Sethites, descendants of Seth. Sethites were God's people in those days, Cain's descendants were not God's people. So Sethites were like the Jews of that day.

Job 1:6
One day the sons of God [men] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

Job 2:1
One day the sons of God came again to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7
while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Hos 1:10
“Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, because they will be called sons of God.

Luke 20:36
For they cannot die anymore, because they are like [angels/messengers] and are sons of God, since they are sons of the resurrection.

Galatians 3:26
for you are all sons of God through faith in Messiah Yashua.

Psalm 82:6
I said, "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.

John 10:33-34
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." [a god]
34 Yashua answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Yashua was asked if he was the Messiah, he was not asked if he was God. It has always been understood that the Messiah would be a god from Heaven.

John 10:24.
The Jews who were there gathered around him, asking, “How long will you keep us in suspense, if you’re the Messiah, tell us plainly?”



Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I don't see how you get that sons of God = Gods from what you've posted. Elohym doesn't translate exactly as God or Gods because it has also the meaning of God's representatives, such as human judges are called elohym, so I've heard.

 

[THIS]

My church teaches that the fallen ones were Cain's descendants, and the sons of God were Sethites, descendants of Seth. Sethites were God's people in those days, Cain's descendants were not God's people. So Sethites were like the Jews of that day.

What nonsense.

Any blood relations do not save us anymore. Before Jesus, the Jews were saved because they were blood related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and because they obeyed the law of ceremonial works. Now, God saves us by our having living faith, which is faith with obedience.

John 1:3 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

[CherubRam]

My church teaches that the fallen ones were Cain's descendants, and the sons of God were Sethites, descendants of Seth. Sethites were God's people in those days, Cain's descendants were not God's people. So Sethites were like the Jews of that day.

I don't see how you get that sons of God = Gods from what you've posted. Elohym doesn't translate exactly as God or Gods because it has also the meaning of God's representatives, such as human judges are called elohym, so I've heard.

God for Elohiym is OK. (Elohiym / Elohiim) means "God of the living (ones / beings.") Small letter elohiym can mean (god-s of the living ones.) The fallen ones can be anybody who does not follow God's moral laws. The thing about Cain is related to a parable and has become a traditional teaching.

 

[2ducklow]

God for Elohiym is OK. (Elohiym / Elohiim) means "God of the living (ones / beings.") Small letter elohiym can mean (god-s of the living ones.) The fallen ones can be anybody who does not follow God's moral laws. The thing about Cain is related to a parable and has become a traditional teaching.

the messianic lineage comes through Seth and not through cain.

Gen 4.25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

notice that Eve calls Seth another seed. it's the seed that will produce the messiah.t is the same seed refered to in Gen 3.15


Gen3,14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

it is the seed from Eve that will burise satans head or headship over man. Most everyone agrees verse 15 refers to Jesus.

GEn 4.16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden

Cain departed from the presence of the Lord, Seth did not. so the doctrine has biblical foundations apart from the parable you speak of.

So this is why I believe the sons of God that married daughters of men refers to Sethites, and not angels.

 

[Der Alte]

God for Elohiym is OK. (Elohiym / Elohiim) means "God of the living (ones / beings.") Small letter elohiym can mean (god-s of the living ones.) The fallen ones can be anybody who does not follow God's moral laws. The thing about Cain is related to a parable and has become a traditional teaching.

"It's a parable" or "It's an allegory." that is the answer for any troublesome verse which exposes false doctrines. Hebrew had no capital letters, so there was no "small letter elohim!" Elohim does not mean "God of the living (ones / beings.)"

 

[CherubRam]

"It's a parable" or "It's an allegory." that is the answer for any troublesome verse which exposes false doctrines. Hebrew had no capital letters, so there was no "small letter elohim!" Elohim does not mean "God of the living (ones / beings.)"

Yahwah is called Elohiym, and the people in heaven are called elohiym. Big and small letters - It's an English language thing. OK, so if you know what Elohiym means, then why didn't you tell us?