Transitional Forms

[pat34lee]

dinosaurs don't reproduce with birds because they lived hundreds of millions of years apart. however, the transition of dinosaurs TO birds was so slow that there was never a problem with breeding and reproduction.

I think it was so slow, it never happened.

 

[Open Heart]

I think it was so slow, it never happened.

I know you do Pat. You believe that Genesis 1 is a kind of literal historical scientific account, and faced with a choice between that and the scientific facts (since they conflict) you choose your version of Genesis.

 

[Open Heart]

A Bat is a flying rodent. There are lizards that can fly, but that does not mean they are birds.

You ignored a point of mine. protarchaeopteryx and archaeopteryx are virtually identical to each other. Yet the first is classified as a dino and the second as a bird. It's almost random. The TRUTH is that both are transitional forms, not really true dino or bird.

 

[Hieronymus]

Transitional Forms

There is evidence of different life forms transitioning, but there is no evidence of one becoming a different life form. The bible mentions that the serpent had legs at one time, never the less, it is still a serpent.

Where does the Bible say the serpent had legs and then lost its legs?

Consider depictions of dragons from various cultures, like the Chinese dragon for example.
It has legs, but crawls on its belly none the less.

 

[CherubRam]

Where does the Bible say the serpent had legs and then lost its legs?

Consider depictions of dragons from various cultures, like the Chinese dragon for example.
It has legs, but crawls on its belly none the less.

Genesis 3:14
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

 

[CherubRam]

You ignored a point of mine. protarchaeopteryx and archaeopteryx are virtually identical to each other. Yet the first is classified as a dino and the second as a bird. It's almost random. The TRUTH is that both are transitional forms, not really true dino or bird.

There are also birds that do not fly, and there were birds that had no feathers. The terms protarchaeopteryx and archaeopteryx means that one came before the other. For what reason was it determined that the protarchaeopteryx is a dinosaur?

 

[Open Heart]

There are also birds that do not fly, and there were birds that had no feathers. The terms protarchaeopteryx and archaeopteryx means that one came before the other. For what reason was it determined that the protarchaeopteryx is a dinosaur?

The birds which do not fly are simply closer to dinos than other birds.

I've never heard of a natural bird with no feathers.

Although protarchaeopteryx had feathers, the quality of the feathers is different than archaeopteryx.

 

[pat34lee]

I know you do Pat. You believe that Genesis 1 is a kind of literal historical scientific account, and faced with a choice between that and the scientific facts (since they conflict) you choose your version of Genesis.

Not MY version. The truth as it was written.
2 Peter 1:20-21 ~~ 2 Timothy 3:16

I choose not to re-interpret it to force agreement with
the religion of evolution and its gods, time and chance.

 

[Open Heart]

Not MY version. The truth as it was written.
2 Peter 1:20-21 ~

Genesis 1 is not prophecy

~ 2 Timothy 3:16

I never said Genesis 1 wasn't profitable to read or good for doctrine. I simply said it isn't a history or science text.

 

[CherubRam]

The birds which do not fly are simply closer to dinos than other birds.

I've never heard of a natural bird with no feathers.

Although protarchaeopteryx had feathers, the quality of the feathers is different than archaeopteryx.

Pterosaurs were flying reptiles (Opinion) of the extinct clade or order Pterosauria. They existed from the late Triassic to the end of the Cretaceous (228 to 66 million years ago). Pterosaurs are the earliest vertebrates known to have evolved powered flight. Their wings were formed by a membrane of skin.

There were a number of different ones.

 

[CherubRam]

Just because species have similarities it does not mean that they are related. Why do you think Evolutionist say the links are missing? They would not all be missing if Evolution was the truth.

The platypus is a semiaquatic egg-laying mammal, it is one of the five extant species of monotremes, the only mammals that lay eggs instead of giving birth.

 

[Open Heart]

Pterosaurs were flying reptiles (Opinion) of the extinct clade or order Pterosauria. They existed from the late Triassic to the end of the Cretaceous (228 to 66 million years ago). Pterosaurs are the earliest vertebrates known to have evolved powered flight. Their wings were formed by a membrane of skin.

There were a number of different ones.

This is correct. Therefore we would not call them birds with no feathers, just as we would not call a bat a bird with hair.

 

[Open Heart]

Why do you think Evolutionist say the links are missing?

Evolutionists do not say there are missing links when it comes to dinos and birds, or when it comes to the evolution of whales from four footed creatures, or when it comes to humanity from lower primates. That's why I provided you with the detailed descents in those lines.

I challenge you to tell me whether homo habilus is a man or an ape.

 

[CherubRam]

This is correct. Therefore we would not call them birds with no feathers, just as we would not call a bat a bird with hair.

"Archaeopteryx robustly reinstated as the most basal bird."

 

[CherubRam]

Evolutionists do not say there are missing links when it comes to dinos and birds, or when it comes to the evolution of whales from four footed creatures, or when it comes to humanity from lower primates. That's why I provided you with the detailed descents in those lines.

I challenge you to tell me whether homo habilus is a man or an ape.

To difficult to tell from the bone fragments of the scull.

If Evolution was a scientific fact, then it would be stated as such.

 

[tampasteve]

just as we would not call a bat a bird with hair.

This is true, and made me chuckle.

 

[Hieronymus]

Genesis 3:14
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

Of course i know the verse..
But it does not say the serpent / dragon / 'shining one' (nachash) had legs at first and didn't have legs later.
And then i pointed out that even WITH legs typical dragons go on their bellies.

 

[tampasteve]

Indeed. And whether it is evolution, or a literal reading of Genesis, some (and a definite emphasis of some) serpents do have a vestigial pelvis, which clearly imply previously having legs. But it is fully worth noting that only a few types of snakes have this. But it is worth remembering that previously having legs actually supports both sides of the discussion.

 

[Open Heart]

To difficult to tell from the bone fragments of the scull.

If Evolution was a scientific fact, then it would be stated as such.

Actually you can tell a lot, such as brain size and apelike facial features, and you add to that what is found in their habitations, such as the advanced stone tool usage.

It appears that you are not distinguishing what Science has established as evolutionary fact from evolutionary theory.

Evolutionary fact: Life evolved from earlier life, with one species changing into other species, going back to a single type of organism.

Evolutionary theory: The process driving evolution. Current theory includes--natural selection, genetic drift, punctuated evolution, etc. Theistic evolutionists would theorize that God directs evolution, at least in part.

You also don't seem to recognize what a scientific theory is. It is not the same thing as a philosophical theory, which in science would be the equivalent of a hypothesis. A scientific theory is an overarching idea based on the wealth of data collected, for example, the theory of gravity or the theory of relativity.

 

[Open Heart]

"Archaeopteryx robustly reinstated as the most basal bird."

But you notice it has gone back and forth over time. This is because it is truly a transitional form. That's what happens when life evolves. You run into these fossils that don't clearly fit into your categories, but you are forced for convenience sake to either assign them an existing category that doesn't really fit (as is the case with Homo Habilus), or make up a new category for them (as was done for the Australopithecines).